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FrozenGate by Avery

Kiyoukan...

MichiganMan said:
I live an hour and a half away from Madison heights (according to google maps). I also am going on a police ride this Saturday with my uncle, I could go knock on his door and confront him about the scams he has committed, that is if anyone would want me to.
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Its a pretty long ride, but if the police wants to hunt a criminal...you would do the whole pl forum a favor.
But he probaly reads this forum while logged out... But maybe were lucky. You could always ask neighbours if they know something about him.
 
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I really doubt anyone will be able to pin anything legally on Kiyoukan though. I mean, yeah, you could drive up to his home or something, but that low-level vigilantism isn't going to do anything. File your PP disputes if you were smart enough to buy as goods. Otherwise, you're not going to have any recourse against him--just like every other banned scammer on LPF that has laughed his way to the bank.

Good luck, but I think in the end the only thing we'll see done is perhaps Kiyoukan's account being banned.
 
borgqueenx said:
Its a pretty long ride, but if the police wants to hunt a criminal...you would do the whole pl forum a favor.
But he probaly reads this forum while logged out... But maybe were lucky. You could always ask neighbours if they know something about him.
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I don't think my uncle would want or be allowed to drive an hour and a half away in his police cruiser anyways. However I could drive myself, just confront him about it, I suppose I could ask for the owed money, but that really isn't my place to do that (considering I don't know who he scammed or how much). I wouldn't mind talking to everyone who was scammed, and if they had some sort of proof that would help.
 
Sadly BB is right. About all you can do is file a dispute with paypal. This is one reason I always use a credit card to find large purchases with PP because as a last resort you can initiate a charge back with your credit card company if PP doesn't so anything.
 
LtKernelPanic said:
Sadly BB is right. About all you can do is file a dispute with paypal. This is one reason I always use a credit card to find large purchases with PP because as a last resort you can initiate a charge back with your credit card company if PP doesn't so anything.
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Unfortunately I think if you do that then PP will lock your account with all the funds in it and never let you open up another one :( It's against their ToS.
 
ARGLaser said:
Unfortunately I think if you do that then PP will lock your account with all the funds in it and never let you open up another one :( It's against their ToS.
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Yeah that's another problem entirely...

Best is to avoid sellers with a history like this. He has dissapeared before & this has happened but it's hard to tell...
 
BB: I have a much more recent address than what you have from last year, he DID send some of us the optics, not all who ordered optics but some.

MichiganMan check your PM's

Edit: Oh one thing though, to keep in mind.

He says he carries a gun

Not long before he dissapeared (this time) while in the chatroom somebody who later said they were just joking had said that the people
in PL want to kick LaserCo and Kiyo's ass

Kiyo replied with something pretty close to "They better come with 12 people then because I have lived in Michigan long enough to have my ass kicked, Ive been robbed and am now licensed to carry and I carry a gun"

Then he said he is beginning to loose respect for you to the person who said what was said.

Just thought you all should know!
 
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I did complete a successful transaction with Aaron 4-5 months ago. He did some milling on Surefire hosts and besides a few weeks delay all went well.
I also do have e-mails and Shipping address as well Paypal related details. I'll check whats posted against what i have
and post an additional info or discrepancy i find.

I can say a few odd things to appear during my wait for
Aaron to ship my items but nothing bad.

Unfortunately, if you look at some of the recent scammers in the past few years they have all been somewhat upstanding
members during their peak, well reputable ( based on sales) and very much available. The seem to use their cloak when
they can be as profitable as possible, in theory at least we all
bare some responsibility providing the feedback necessary.

All the legal crap will get you no further than these threads.
Only one way and the obvious is what our little friend here
believes will never become a reality once he log's off.
 
I don't know if Kiyoukan is actually a malicious scammer, but he has a terrible reputation as someone who neglects to follow through with orders, deliver things on time, and manage finances in a responsible manner. Maybe he'll return, who knows, but if you have Paypal or whatever, I would file your disputes now and be done with it.
 
Yep, It doesn't sound like he's been actually trying to scam people. I thnk he's just taking the Dr Lava track on customer service. :shrug:

Never bought anything from him, but based on repeated threads like this one, I never will.
 
jcranmer said:
Yep, It doesn't sound like he's been actually trying to scam people. I thnk he's just taking the Dr Lava track on customer service. :shrug:

Never bought anything from him, but based on repeated threads like this one, I never will.
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At least drlava replied with some kind of excuse in an acceptable
timely manner on PL... Not here though....:whistle:
I'd bet money that Aron Brown/ kiyoukan is reading these posts
but doesn't seem to have the backbone to respond...IMO

Humans are a curious sort... they always want to know what's being
said about them good or bad and will make an effort to find out.


Jerry

You can contact us at any time on our Website: J.BAUER Electronics
 
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I gave him the benefit of the doubt....but he's gone for about 2 months now....without saying anything anywhere!
While keeping the money and no refunding. My unit was as good as ready to ship.
Although i still have doubts because he showed me the pictures of the almost finished module...i do not believe in that i will actually receive the unit anymore.
Although id still rather have the module then my money back.
 
lasersbee said:
At least drlava replied with some kind of excuse in an acceptable
timely manner on PL... Not here though....:whistle:
I'd bet money that Aron Brown/ kiyoukan is reading these posts
but doesn't seem to have the backbone to respond...IMO

Humans are a curious sort... they always want to know what's being
said about them good or bad and will make an effort to find out.


Jerry

You can contact us at any time on our Website: J.BAUER Electronics
Click to expand...


In my mind, I think everybody here KNOWS he is reading every bit of this.

I guarantee he is reading every word of every post. Anybody who thinks he is NOT reading this is being naive. I'll say it again.

When I first joined here one of the first B/S/T threads I saw was his selling 1W lasers. The last 20-40 posts were from people who had still not received any product or any refund from him after months and months of waiting. That was the first thing I ever saw about "kiyoukan"

I guarantee there are still people from that thread that never got any refund or laser from kiyou because he was going through " rough times" and the forum just brushed it off.

Let's just get rid of someone who should have been gone long ago for CLEARLY scamming (or taking advantage of people at least...)
 
lasersbee said:
Humans are a curious sort... they always want to know what's being
said about them good or bad and will make an effort to find out.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt about that Jerry, He was monitoring the chatroom the last time he did this..
I have to learn to not forgive people so easily and I've been thinking that I have a problem with holding grudges/letting go for quite some time now.. :(

He had started the GB thread at PL and I said:

LINK http://laserpointerforums.com/f63/kiyoukan-no-response-72295-2.html#post1040985

I gave in!!! regained trust!!.. trust? well.. not really, its always been in the background "PAYPAL PROTECTION"

He certainly is alive, free and able to reply here... check his profile stats at youtube
kiyoukan1's channel - YouTube
I have a feeling the account kiyoukan is his also, check the likes or whatever.
 
Apparently there are 2 addresses for him, and they are both within 15 minutes of eachother. If I have the time monday I will drive there after school. And yes I will record it.
 
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