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Kiyoukan...

DTR

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I bought my first bare diode from him. He lied about shipping it and that he lost the postal receipt. Kept me waiting for a very long time just to save $1.60 on postage. Needless to say it was my first and last transaction with him.
http://laserpointerforums.com/f55/c...oup-buy-38-50-shipped-54910-5.html#post791439

I really wanted to try the ST driver but could not stomach doing business with him and am glad I did not.

He also contacted me a few times asking to buy stuff but pay later. Yeaaaa. That was a negative.

When he came back after running off with everyone's money from the $180 laser group buy in a conversation with one our mods mentioned that he should not be allowed to start selling again but I was told the mods would keep an eye on it. I guess they watched it like watching a trainwreck. It always reminds me of a great quote from Fear and loathing in Las Vegas.

"There was a certain bent appeal in the notion of running a savage burn on one Las Vegas hotel, and then just wheeling across town and checking into another."
Hunter S. Thompson
 



borgqueenx

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now i suggest not banning him. that wont get us anywhere. Just keep his account as as soon as he's active we can question him.
But deleting his sales threads ect would be a good idea....unless his outgoing PM's can be monitored as well.
but he's not active anyways so there's no need for that yet.

But....he's a a smart one and will probaly make a new account by a different Ip adress...thus he's probaly already posting here without anyone of us knowing.
 
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lasersbee

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now i suggest not banning him. that wont get us anywhere. Just keep his account as as soon as he's active we can question him.
But deleting his sales threads ect would be a good idea....unless his outgoing PM's can be monitored as well.
but he's not active anyways so there's no need for that yet.

But....he's a a smart one and will probaly make a new account by a different Ip adress...thus he's probaly already posting here without anyone of us knowing.
Credit for what?
Credit for being smart. If he was smart he would have
taken care of his paid up customers..


Jerry

You can contact us at any time on our Website: J.BAUER Electronics
 

borgqueenx

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I ment smart in the meaning of hiding traces of him visitting and posting here..
 

Bionic-Badger

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And that's exactly what I think you're giving Kiyoukan too much credit for. He isn't some scamming mastermind. He's some dumb kid who can't manage his finances and has skipped town after a major screw-up. There's no point in him setting up sock-puppet accounts to defend his case.
 

borgqueenx

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And that's exactly what I think you're giving Kiyoukan too much credit for. He isn't some scamming mastermind. He's some dumb kid who can't manage his finances and has skipped town after a major screw-up. There's no point in him setting up sock-puppet accounts to defend his case.
not accounts to defend his case. an account to just join, sell, buy, ask here and on PL once again. ive talked with the guy over a half year. and he did some contributions for the mitsubishi diode a couple of times wich improved the time it took to make a good build.
That makes him a smart guy.
I know what you and lasersbee mean with that he screwed up, but i do think he is not planning to pay back even if he had the money. he will just probaly register with a other account.
 

Onryo

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I am a rather reasonable person ... but I do not feel the love for scammers. In the good old days when men were men ... like back in like the 12th century we took care of business! What other then to be:

Quartered, Drawn and Hung:


Jokes aside maybe we could implicate a system (here on LPF) with feedback for each seller. Due to other sellers trying to debunk honest sellers we would be able see WHO gave them neg and pos feedback. Click on neg feed back and see who is it giving it. New comers (the ones nobody has heard about) would feel the need to really do a good job as to get a higher "seller rating".

A hall of shame for the proven "cyber wankers" such as a GB and *poof gone* with the money would cause a poop storm of negative karma for that seller.

What about if the cyber wanker changes his name city etc. Sellers will need to sign his GB or sale with A GPG/PGP key so you know who you are dealing with. Once a public key is made nobody else can impersonate that seller. As an Deiban GNU/Linux dev this is everyday stuff for us.

The key is to make it so ppl like my mother can easily and seamlessly do this on her Windows machine. If there is an interest how this could be automated. I can explain it in more detail.

Could very well be a dumb idea but just a thought. We all know and love our main reliable suppliers already so it would not be a problem for them.

All the best
Onryo
 

Bionic-Badger

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Reading comprehension. This is not an issue of impersonating sellers. Never was.

A PGP signature won't do anything if it's just going to be tossed away like an alias, or a forum account. PGP is for data integrity and security; it's not a person's digital DNA signature.

We already have systems for feedback for sellers. It's called researching the person you're buying from. Some people even rely on "rep" even though that's not a consistent metric.
 

Onryo

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Reading comprehension. This is not an issue of impersonating sellers. Never was.

A PGP signature won't do anything if it's just going to be tossed away like an alias, or a forum account. PGP is for data integrity and security; it's not a person's digital DNA signature.

We already have systems for feedback for sellers. It's called researching the person you're buying from. Some people even rely on "rep" even though that's not a consistent metric.
The magic is in the web of trust. Is just that...a web of trust. Is this person who they say they are and are they trustworthy? If used right it should be as solid as a personal fingerprint. People who sign your key should know you well. Where you live, your phone number etc. Otherwise anybody could just make a key and say “yo its me Bill Clinton”. When developers send say kernel code to the Linux repos we NEED to know its them. What if I don't know him but my mother and father do know him for years and signed his key. You don't sign keys like facebook invitations. You actually need to know the person is the person they say they are. Like speak to them on the phone. Preferably ask for their ID face to face.

So how does a web of trust work? Well lets say hypothetically that I personally know (as in face to face) Jordan. I don't but this is an example. We can then sign each others keys public keys. But you guys don't know me at all. Now lets say Lazerer knows me (face to face) and we sign each others keys. Now you guys trust lasererer and DTR and they actually physically know me (this is hypothetically. I know who they are but never met them). The basic idea is to make a web of trust. It not enough that one person trusts a buddy. GPG actually has some smarts.

Anyway here is a simple explanation.
http://www.gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html#AEN385

Now if you want to see some really BIG crazy web of trusts take a look at these.
http://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2009/service/CLT09-keys-neu.gif

And yes there is free GPG for Windows. I have not own windows but I know it works fine and is open source.
Gpg4win - Secure email and file encryption with GnuPG for Windows

PGP was bought and now closed source. If I cant read the code I do not trust it. Why should I. GPG is PGP just the open source version of it. The name PGP is patented.

Come to think about it this might be a bit to technical to work in a non computer geek social setting.

Anyway I have my key in my signature down there. If your using Linux just copy paste what you see there and my key will be put in your keyring.

If you are using Windows just go into MIT Key Server and then use 0x2B4B58FE and poof you have my public key. Still not signed by anybody at LPF since I do not know any of you face to face.

Sorry about the geek talk :angel:

All the best
Onryo
 

DarkSide

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Uhm Jerry, re-read my post. I was whole heartily agreeing
with your statement. Like the movie when one
person looks at the the other points two fingers at he's eyes
and then points them at the other person? They both
agree they see eye to eye without saying a word.


My bad for not articulating this is my post.



I'm actually not Pi$$ed off... I was wise enough not to
have any dealings with Kiyoukan from the first time I
heard of his MIA way of dealing with buyers.

BTW.. this is the 1st time I've made the previous post
statement and it is only a generalization (note the word
usual and not always..:D) as I've experienced in real
life.

I'm not saying all younger sellers are like Kiyoukan...
I know for a fact that most are responsible enough to
keep selling items on the Forum in a professional manner.

My post was a response to Kiyoukan's selling and customer
service demeanor here and on other Forums.


Jerry

You can contact us at any time on our Website: J.BAUER Electronics
 

Onryo

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lasersbee

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Uhm Jerry, re-read my post. I was whole heartily agreeing
with your statement. Like the movie when one
person looks at the the other points two fingers at he's eyes
and then points them at the other person? They both
agree they see eye to eye without saying a word.


My bad for not articulating this is my post.
My bad for misinterpreting your meaning...:beer:

Jerry
 

LaserCo

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hey people, kiyoukan has been gone from this forum for what, a year now? are there any of you here that he still owes money to?
he has resurfaced after he pulled a fast one at photonlexicon, thats right, he did another group buy over there and ditched on us.
now he is trying to set things straight after screwing us over.. and trying to sell things so he can repay us!

see here
Mistakes and apology's - Page 3
 




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