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FrozenGate by Avery

8X Diode Murder fund

But they are rated @ 5000 hrs plus at their rated pulsed power. We are overdriving them at a constant power.

isnt pulsed power different than constant power though?

It's all matter of duty cycle (based, usually, on 1 second frame consideration) ..... if the diode is 100mW CW, is usually 200 mW pulsed with a duty cycle of 50%, half second on / half second off.

Some manufacturers rates their diodes on a 30 seconds on / 30 seconds off basis, but you can see that, with these times, the diode already have some degradations, cause when they rate their diodes in this way, the declared powers are not symmetrical, i mean, if CW = 100mW, then pulsed = 180mW at 50% duty cycle (instead 200).

This, probably, cause a 30 seconds constant on time is already considered almost CW (quasi-CW), for the degradation and thermal exchange models.

A cycle like the one that IgorT is using, for the degradation effects, can be considered almost a CW condition, with 60 seconds on and 6o seconds off times ..... and this, btw, means also that those diodes can be much more robusts of that what we think (i said can be, cause after all we have the data from a single exemplar only, and it can also be a damn freak :p)



I'm starting to think, that maybe, just maybe, we might get useful results at 340-360mA! :bowdown:

Are you considering the opportunity to change the current of the second test to 340mA or similar, for get different plotting about the more extreme conditions ?
 
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That the diode can reject to die for the next 6 months or more, so, when the test is finished (diode finally resting in peace :p), the 8x burners may have reached the diffusion and price of the PHR sleds ..... (J/K :p :crackup:)
 
We are already well beyond what we "believed" this diode was capable of. 150 hours is ~25 minutes of burn time EVERY day for a year. This is more than most people use their lasers.

I say we retire this diode, have IgorT build a laser and either sell it to buy another diode or raffle it off to the people who donated to the fund.

Then we set the second diode up at <350mA to see if it will make the "magic" 100 hours. We have had some blow at <350mA so we may be able to see the "edge" of this diode as IgorT observes its degradation. This can then be a guide for users and builders.

Also, having the 8X and the 12X next to each other during testing might show us any differences between them.

It is not "dead" yet, but it's usefulness has diminished considerably. The only thing left it can tell us is what its death dance looks like. However, the death dance may take months at 300mA while the whole time the diode will be doing this :na: to us.

Peace,
dave
 
I vote 360mA.

btw, I read an article on bluray writers that said that they would drop at least 50% in manufacturing price the next year, do you think that would apply to burners and high powered diodes too?
 
I vote 360mA.

btw, I read an article on bluray writers that said that they would drop at least 50% in manufacturing price the next year, do you think that would apply to burners and high powered diodes too?

"Writers" and "burners" are the same thing. Since we harvest the diodes from the drive, if the price of the drive goes down, the price we have to pay for the diode we harvest from it goes down.

Welcome to the word of technology. A laser I sold for $270 six months ago can barely get $170 now. With every new generation of technology, the "value" of the previous technology plummets. However, you really cannot "wait it out." Once the price of the 8X drops significantly, the 12X (or maybe 16X) will be on the market and you will want the new higher powered one.

If the Chinese and/or Korean manufacturers get involved, the difference is even more striking. Just look at what you can get a 130mW violet for now from China. Eighteen months ago we were building and selling these for <$150!

Peace,
dave
 
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....
I say we retire this diode, have IgorT build a laser and either sell it to buy another diode or raffle it off to the people who donated to the fund......

Never!
No murder diode shall be retired. They will die at IgorT's residence. If it won't die crank up the current and see how long diode #1 lasts at 400ma.
 
I agree with Dave here, but would defer to Igor to make a final decision, I think how much longer the diode lives is not a good indicator of what would happen to another like diode at a higher output as this one has been stressed for a long life. If it would not further our relevant knowledge, it could be a joy to someone for what is left of t's life be it 10 hours or a few hundred though. -Glenn
 
I personally thought the murder was going to be , every 10-15 hours the mA would have been cranked up 20mA or so.. until well ... murder (death).

is everyone who gets an 8x going to want to keep their builds at 300mA?
 
Dave makes complete sense, as always. Its already past the level of average-high use. Why waste more time just to kill it.
 
I personally thought the murder was going to be , every 10-15 hours the mA would have been cranked up 20mA or so.. until well ... murder (death).

is everyone who gets an 8x going to want to keep their builds at 300mA?
I cannot afford to have my 8X burn up too quickly, so I'll be running not too much above that. -Glenn
 
I personally thought the murder was going to be , every 10-15 hours the mA would have been cranked up 20mA or so.. until well ... murder (death).

is everyone who gets an 8x going to want to keep their builds at 300mA?

That method would not give us any usable results. The degradation is not linear, it's more like exponential. Current has to be a controlled variable in these experiments to get usable results.
 
Someone else asked this question earlier and no one answered so I'll ask it again. Which is harder on a diode, constant operation or pulsed? Igor said (correct me if I am mistaken) he thought it was the ON cycles that hurt it more, so running a diode for 100 hours in 1 minute cycles would degrade it more than 100 hours constantly. This would mean that pulsed operation would degrade it more, yes? But commercially they usually run them pulsed even when the device does not require it don't they?

This probably isn't a variable we want to change with second test, but it would be good to know for future tests. Any input is appreciated.


If the diode is turned ON and left ON without any switching, it can survive WAY longer than if it is turned ON and OFF.

Time would pass much faster, but the end result would not be anywhere near what a diode would survive in a laser pointer. Here we are simulating average laser pointer use.


The cycling adds to the suffering of the laser diode, by adding the power-up related stresses to the optical flux alone. Such as rapid changes in the die temperature.

The majority of times i killed a diode, it happened at a powerup. I would turn it on, and only see a blob - the diode did lase for a very short time, but tue do having been degraded, the power-up stresses and the optical flux pushed it over the edge.

A good example of this is the testing i did with some open can and long can reds - using a very slow powerup (ramping up the current by hand), i was able to push them above 400mW! With an instant power-up, the same diodes would die instantly at those currents.


Pulsing on the other hand is a completelly different for it. It does allow setting a diode to twice the power without shortening the life, but under very strict conditions, The maximum pulse width is usually limited to 30ns with a duty cycle of 50%.

And while the power is changing rapidly, the thermal stresses to the diode are not the same at every pulse, as they are at a normal CW powerup. Only the first pulse causes a similar stress, while with every next pulse, the heat in the diode just moves a bit up and down around a certain average point.

At least that is how i imagine it, i don't quite understand all the details of what happens inside the diode, but i know, it's the power-up's they don't like.


Optical flux at the die is a major factor in degradation, but power-up stresses play a big role as well.


If we were to cycle two completelly identical diodes side by side, one with a 1 minute cycle, the other with a five minute cycle, the five minute one would live longer - as long as there is no overheating involved with the 5 minute one of course (but there are no two identical diodes, it would take killing two groups to test this)...




EDIT:
Someone else asked this question earlier and no one answered so I'll ask it again. Which is harder on a diode, constant operation or pulsed?

Hmm, again i turned a simple question into a complicated answer.

Which is harder on the diode, CW or Pulsed.... It depends:
- If both CW and Pulsed are set to reach the same power, say 400mW CW vs. 400mW Pulsed, CW is WAY harder on the diode.
- If Pulsed is at twice the power of the CW, both are practically the same for the diode - in pulsed wave, the diode can reach twice the power without wasting lifetime, but only within the specified restrictions (pulse width and 50% duty cycle)...








Otherwise, i was working on the second torture chamber station today, now that i finally had some time, and i finished the counter setup for it. Now i just need to connect it to the second sensor, and rearrange the torture chamber a little bit, so it can accomodate two diodes.

I think it would make sense to start both the second 8x and the 12x experiment simultaneously, because i will have to re-plot them at regular intervals, and it would waste a lot less time, if this happens for both diodes every time i stop the cycler, instead of separatelly, since that could make the other diode wait and cause more delays....



Attached is a photo of the new counter with it's control panel, together with a new power supply for both counters (the old one needs 5V and the new one 3V) during testing.

I should be done with the Torture Chamber renovations tomorrow, so we need to reach a final decision for both diodes.
 

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  • Counter #2 w. Control Panel.JPG
    Counter #2 w. Control Panel.JPG
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