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InfinitusEquitas

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Don't Worry. This Worlds Morals are on a Marching Path and You Just Might See In Your Lifetime the "Stigma" of the Mass Majority Change and They Agree with What you Obviously Would Like to See.
@Krogith

I Would Like To See Common Sense and Logic Prevail Over Dogmatic Morality.

In my posts I'm simply proposing what is in my opinion the best and most realistic way to deal with the problem.

I know it's easy to just shout that it's wrong, evil, bad, immoral, but what actual solution do you propose?

Make it illegal? Teach kids that it's wrong? Punish offenders?

All of that is already being done... and none of it to works. The war on drugs also seems to going great...



P.S. - In some countries it's a stigma to be jewish. In some places it's a stigma to be black. So yeah, I'm against any kind of stigma.
 
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Krogith

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I Think Thats the main Point: Man Can't do anything to solve these types of problems. Thats a Whole Deeper Point tho, Not going to be Understood in a few short words in a thread.

I See Your side but honestly it Causes More Problems than what your seeing on the surface. The Johns and the Pimps Mental State and how it Effects Society, the Denigration there of and the Snow Ball Effect it has on the rest of the Societal Norm. We Shall see how Far it will go Down and what will it Will become Tho wont We. :gun:
 
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JaiNobeZ

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Krogith, i've figured out why you're so difficult to argue with.

You tend to sidestep the main point and talk about something peripheral.
 

LaZeRz

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Uhm, apart the fact that i agree with Chez, about the "who care" principle, when both the parts are consensuals (and we're speaking about just under-18 girls, not about kids, be clear with this), i have some doubts, about the fact that clients ask for underage girls ..... anyway, i don't want to start any war, ok ? ..... it's just a personal curiosity.

Let me ask you some things about this, just for the fun of the discussion:

You say that half of the clients pay for have sex with underage prostitutes ..... what exactly you mean, with this ?

That those clients intentionally ask for underage girls ? ..... like, going to them and ask them "hey, are you underage? ..... i'm searching an underage prostitute, can you direct me to them ?" ..... i don't doubt that clients that pay prostitutes may choose the more beautiful and young-looking ones, after all i suppose they pay also for the appearence, and i also suppose that, if they pay, they don't choose intentionally girls that looks old and ugly (ok, ok, at least the most part of them ..... there are always deviants :p :D) ----- but, with all the controls and risks, permit me to have some doubts, that there are so much peoples that ask for minors :p

Or maybe, that half of the clients don't care if the girls are underage ? ..... but also in this case, do you really think that a client can ask the girl to show him her documents, for certify that she's over-18 ? ..... or that any of these girls, asked about their age, simply don't lie about it, for get the client more easily ? ..... also about this, i have some little doubts :p (and, other than this, how do you see if a girl is or not over-18 ? ..... i personally know girls that are 20 and looks 15, and a couple of twins that are 17 and look 25 ..... the aspect means nothing, especially with makeup :p)

This, ofcourse, speaking about "street girls" (don't know the right term in English, sorry) ..... when instead you speak about so-called "escort services" agencies, the things changes ..... i heard that this one is a business ruled from very "protected" peoples (usually, industrials or bank managers, not just crime), with a lot of "hooks" in police and politics ..... with similar premises, i can easily trust that a client rich enough, and available to pay enough, can ask for a girl specifying anything, including age, and become "served on-the-fly", but this, i really doubt can be considered the majority of the prostitution market, or make some conspicuous statistics.

Ofcourse, mine are just speculations, i never felt the need to pay a girl, so i never done that (is not a matter of laws or costumes, i don't even care about these laws, and can't care less than so about what the others think ..... i don't just feel right the idea itself, cause i feel it as "buy a person", and this is against my personal principles) so cannot know this market directly, only from reports, documents and news ..... but if you have some proofs, i may be glad to see them.

And last, permit me a little joke, ( with no intentions to offend anyone, especially the girls ;) )



Who said you that you get it "for free" ? ..... have you never considered how much it cost you, in fact of home bills and fees, new car, dresses and makeups and gifts for the wife, extra expenses when the kids comes, and so on ? ..... "for free" is not exactly the right way for define it, i think :eg: ..... (just kidding :p :D)

Hehe lol, well even if your single your still going to have to pay for most of those items when you move into your own house :D and less money on your wife more on lasers :D naa just kidding :crackup:

BTW 300th post :D
 
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HIMNL9

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.....
Man gives woman meat > she gives him sex.
ROTFL :p

I personally tend to considerate an "interaction" between man and woman as an "exchange of pleasure", than as a market (but this is simply as i am, personal opinion and nothing other) ..... anyway, also your one can be a good definition, under certain points of view :p


@ all the ones that speak about "laws" and "morality" (and no, no intention to offend, it's only a well known fact), please consider that the things that we call "laws" and "morality" are extremely variable concepts, that regularly change with the time, society and abitudes, also in few years ..... just as example, remember that less than 100 years ago (that is a limited amount of time, if you think about it), in most of the countries the use was still to give girls for marriage around the age of 12 (or when they was "becoming women", as it's considered the first menstruation time), that was usual and considered normal, to give those girls in marriage to men of age 40 or 50 or also more, indifferently that they (the girls) want this or not, and that a girl was considered "too old for find a good husband" when she was 17 ..... and this was considered perfectly legal and moral :p
 

Krogith

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ROTFL :p

I personally tend to considerate an "interaction" between man and woman as an "exchange of pleasure", than as a market (but this is simply as i am, personal opinion and nothing other) ..... anyway, also your one can be a good definition, under certain points of view :p


@ all the ones that speak about "laws" and "morality" (and no, no intention to offend, it's only a well known fact), please consider that the things that we call "laws" and "morality" are extremely variable concepts, that regularly change with the time, society and abitudes, also in few years ..... just as example, remember that less than 100 years ago (that is a limited amount of time, if you think about it), in most of the countries the use was still to give girls for marriage around the age of 12 (or when they was "becoming women", as it's considered the first menstruation time), that was usual and considered normal, to give those girls in marriage to men of age 40 or 50 or also more, indifferently that they (the girls) want this or not, and that a girl was considered "too old for find a good husband" when she was 17 ..... and this was considered perfectly legal and moral :p

Don't You think thats just a Variation of the Same Idea? Sounds like We are Doing the modern Day Equivalent of the Exact Same Thing? :thinking:




(I asked what I didn't Address in PM) I Figured sense you like the Debate to include it to the thread JaiNobez :D
JaiNobeZ said:
Krogith said:
What point have I not addressed? :thinking:
To begin with
"People are out to have "FUN" and not trying to form a Committed Relationship with people. And In the USA we have a HUGE prostitution Problem where 40 % of the Male population do it and 1/2 of them with underage little girls. This also makes it more of a Society that isn't focused on the family Structure. Internet Pornography is Huge as well. Think about it Old world man had to go to some location where that dirty stuff went on, Now everyone can do it in there own home and go to the sickest sites and no one knows. This is also a Main contributor of this Issue as well. "

You later retracted the 40% to 30%. I then spent quite a few posts asking you to explain the "1/2 of them with underage little girls". Did your "1/2" just mean "some"?

My Answer to that was simply,

People are not 100% truthful, It's volunteer studies. We already Talked about the VERY Negative way the mass of society has viewed it over History and the Stigma Associated to it. So when 30% do admit it you have to take into account the Fact that not everyone is confessing every thing they have done and 100% truthful. A lot also feel law enforcement could possibly some how get that information making them even more reluctant.

I don't get how you could look at 30% and say Yeah most of them have done it once so that number is a lot smaller. Your saying everyone was 100% truthful and that Can Not be True. And Sense it's a Taboo subject and Most men doing it are Over 30 Married with kids than they have many reasons Not to be 100% Truthful. So That 30% are the ones who think it's 100% Fine and they joke with there Buddy's About The "Slut" They did last night.

It's a billion dollar Industry in the US, that takes a Lot of people working and/or making some income to fund that industry. >>>$$$<<<

And my point always was,

The John's may Know it Or Not on there age but That argument is Mute Honestly. Saying you didn't know she was 14 and she "Looked" Older and told me so is Retarded to use as a Defense.

The studies show that Most Out of All the Prostitutes in the US start underage around 11-13. If the Average Prostitutes all started young, than theres a Huge Mass of the Men who have use them, Who have had sex with under age girls Knowingly or Not. That means for the 1st 7-5 Years of there Sex Slavery Everyone they had sex with 4-10 Johns Each a Night Every Night 365 days a Year is Having sex with a Under Age Girls. The most famous Words are, Young, Fresh, Innocent.... What The Crap Do you Think that Means? The Men Don't Care.
 
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HIMNL9

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Don't You think thats just a Variation of the Same Idea? Sounds like We are Doing the modern Day Equivalent of the Exact Same Thing? :thinking:
Sorry, my English is bad ..... if you are asking if i condone that old uses, then the reply is no, i don't condone any form of sopruse (what's the right word, violence ? ..... imposition ?) over other peoples, and this independently that they was "underage" girls ..... i was just saying that "laws" and "moral" are very comfortable concepts, cause, opposite to "justice" and "ethic" (that are things that you can't change so easily), they can be changed when peoples or governments feel the need to change them (i know, i know, i'm a damn polemic one :p ..... sometimes i also feel funny to have some good discussions, i admit that ..... only, English stop me a lot, being a so strange language :p :D)
 

Krogith

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@HIMNL9 Your English is fine,

I was just saying that what we are doing today, seems like the Exact same thing we have seen in history just what the modern day Man does. So Instead of the Pedophile in history taking the 12 year old girl into his house. (meat sharing) He pays for it today. Same Idea in a Sense. Same Issue.
 

InfinitusEquitas

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I was just saying that what we are doing today, seems like the Exact same thing we have seen in history just what the modern day Man does. So Instead of the Pedophile in history taking the 12 year old girl into his house. (meat sharing) He pays for it today. Same Idea in a Sense. Same Issue.
Historically a girl was considering a woman immediately after her "flowering" aka menstrual cycle. The most basic and important responsibility of the woman being to produce healthy sons.

Again historically, going back say 500 years (or even a lot less) it would not be uncommon at all to see men sleeping with very young girls. However you have to take into account much shorter life spans. Where as now 75, 80, 90 is common, it would have been very unusual back than.

So comparing modern pedophiles to ordinary men in the middle ages, kind of like comparing a 1960's car to a 2010 model. Still has 4 wheels, but totally different.

Also I think AMAZING strides have been made in developed nations. The standard of living we have now is MUCH higher than anything even 100 years ago. Read a study somewhere that to simulate the current life style of an average american male, it would have taken the work of over a 100 slaves. The same is also true regarding human rights. Don't believe me, compare how many women were doctors back in 1900 and now.

In general though, I personally know only one guy that likes young girls, personally I think he's weird, and wouldn't be at all surprised if he got arrested at some point, but even he won't sleep with a girl who is under 18. According to the statistics you list, 30% have slept with underage girls. I don't know where this is possible, but I know for a fact that out of all the guys I know very well, and there are a lot more than 10... there aren't that many (none actually ) pedophiles.

Personally I second the castration punishment for the crime though. Would probably work a lot better than imprisonment, but even such an approach can produce problems.

Edit: Just read this article on CNN, http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/19/granderson.children.dress/index.html?iref=NS1 I have basically the same question as the author. WTF is wrong with the parents who buy this crap?
 
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rvrh3

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Seems like you're trying to show off with that information ;)
May I remind you this forum is 99.99999% male XD
Not really, but I saw that some people wonder how women find it so weird to be interested in such things as lasers. Lets face it, its kind of nerdy.
 

HIMNL9

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^ uhm, what exactly do you mean with "nerdy" ? ..... hightech for guys only ?

If so, i know a pair of girls more interested and skilled than the most part of the guys i know, about PCs and highteck, so why not lasers, too ?

;)
 

InfinitusEquitas

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@HIMNL9

While there are some women who are in fact very good with technology, as a general rule there are a lot more guys.

For example I know a dozen guys off hand who can put together a computer in under half an hour. I know only one girl who can do the same though.
 

Krogith

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@InfinitusEquitas The Statistic i linked in this thread earlier, has the 30% and I got it from other sources as well... Just Because you Personally don't "Know" about it doesn't make the Study False. People who think alike tend to gravitate towards each-other and not talk about it to other people they know who are not like them. And I bet your friend who likes "Young" Girls wouldn't think twice about there "Real" age. Most men who are in that World don't seek it out per say they just want as Young as Possible and don't think twice about it when the time comes.


My 1st On Topic point :p : Why is it that "Most" Women don't like it or at the Least don't Understand "Why"? And the Ones who Do are Far and Few Between? I'm not asking because I would like to talk about them more, but as more of a Psychology Question?
 




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