Pay to repair laser with <15 min of use?

[Prototype]

He edited that into their, after having a member meter the ones he had left. And he wasn't claiming 1.7W, he was claiming 1.9W on every single one with aixiz glass

He never metered the first 11 he sold, so those people , if they do not have an lpm, could have had 1W one's for all anybody knows, and who knows there at 1.8A? he could have set them at 1.9A, and that's why the OP's laser died in ten minutes of use. I have ran my 2d mag I had for 5-8 minutes straight, and the focus knob was the hottest part, heatsink and host were room temp.

Fact is, the seller was wrong, made false claims, and should stick by what he says. If he is selling 1.9W lasers that have 80 minute duty cycles, EVERY SINGLE one should be 1.9W with an 80 minute duty cycle as he claims

I know. I didn't say he metered all of them, I just said that he metered a FEW. I also never said that he was claiming 1.7W. I was just pointing out that he had had some metered, don't get mad at me for other's actions.

 

[daguin]

I recommend that everybody step back and take a breath.

The posts are coming so fast that people are getting caught up.

Peace,
dave

 

[Kevlar]

I believe in second chances but only when they are deserved like if it was a mistake but it wasn't he was making false claims in order to make money and I'm not interested in his bottom line I care about the health of this board and you should also !
Were you around when DAoO was here scamming people he got a second chance and look what happened he ripped people for 1000's
No I don't think it's a good idea to give rip off artist a second chance as Kevlar has pointed out this is not even his designe he isn't smart enought to do that he had to use someone elses design JAYROB's and I find that's like a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
Nope I don't think he deserves a second chance I think he will only end up bringing down bad things on this board and none of us here that care about this board want to see that !

He even uses's Jayrob's quotes in HIS sales thread for further is sales!!

 

[Delorean Geek]

At the very least, a mod should link an attachment to this thread to his original sales thread so any future consumer will be aware of what's going on here and make a decision to buy or not.

 

[Sparkles]

At 1.8W output, that laser will be producing almost 7W of heat not including the heat generated by the driver.
I don't care how big the heatsink is, no portable laser dumping 7W of heat can run at 100% duty cycle without active cooling.

On top of that, there are few diodes that can sustain that power with a decent lifetime. These diodes are good for a bit more than 1W but 1.8W is pushing the limit.

That being said, I'm not going to say who is "at fault" especially since there is no clear diagnosis of what actually went wrong.

$0.02

I could go either way. On one hand when you buy a "home built" laser that there is no warranty...especially at that output. At 1.8A I am assuming you bought a 445 and are in the area of 1.7W-2W of output?...that's pushing a diode pretty hard and it's anyone's guess how long it will last.

On the other hand, you did just buy it. Was it new or a fresh build?

I can say on my 2W Jayrob I'm getting ready to assemble , I don't expect a warranty on such a modified laser. I do expect a warranty on the craftsmanship(like if the heat sink was cracked or the host had a build flaw) but as far as operation...these high output lasers are like race cars...you sacrifice reliability for performance.

Assuming you didn't put the battery in wrong, you probably just need to replace the diode.

EDIT: I just read your last line of text...he claimed an unlimited duty cycle at 1.8A?

There is never a guarantee for how long the diode will last, even at lower currents. I agree with Delorean though, the craftmanship should be completely warranteed, but noone can guarantee how long a diode will last.

I would have to say yes you would have to pay for the repair since you ran it for 10 min stright, what would cause you to do this, were you trying to see just how long it would last ? I can see no reason what so ever to run a laser this long just shinning into a LPM !

No on the other hand as the seller told you it has an unlimited run time then he is at fault for telling you this and giving you a false sense of reason.

I think you both should split the cost of repairs you for doing such a dumb thing and him for telling you something that can't happen with out active cooling !

just my 0.02

Hello there, I have recently become aware of this thread after a slew of negative reps came my way. WHEW! Where to start? I am new to the sales of lasers. I don't know the proper terminology of how to sell my laser. I never meant for someone to take literally that the laser would last for a 80 minute cycle non-stop, I meant that it had 80 minutes of battery life. If I had only changed that sentence then things would be different. But alas.

I got some information from Watson (the person whose laser isn't working) before I sold it to him. He said he has been in lasers for 5 years. I was comfortable that he knew how to handle his lasers and would treat this like the high performance device that it is. When I talked to him after the laser stopped working I asked a slew of questions to try and figure out if there was a quick fix like the batteries. He said he had run it for 10-15 minutes and it had gotten hot to the touch. I was a little shocked he had ran it that long while knowing it was hot.

I offered to do the repair for free. He has offered $30 for the diode if it turns out that a diode is bad. I have my friend meeting him tomorrow to pick up the laser. This is where he and I stand on this issue atm. The laser might have a simple wire loose, we will find out.

I stand behind my craftsmanship 100% I never intended that someone would run the laser non-stop for 80 minutes. This was my mistake about the way I communicated this information.
I have changed my sales thread to 80 minutes of battery life and a suggested laser use cycle of 4 minutes on and 1 minute off. I have changed the output to a range of 1.8W-2W because all diodes are different.

I deleted a legal disclaimer because RHD said it shouldn't be separate. I agreed and moved it to my sales thread. I also am posting the instruction sheet I am now sending with my lasers. If you think I should change anything on here.. please don't hesitate to contact me.

Blue Man Laser
CAUTION- Unscrewing the head (the clockwise “focusing” action of the head) risks twisting the wires inside the body. This may result in a short circuit of the wires or may strip the driver. Contact me before attempting to open.
The batteries go in the tube with the rounder end (positive) at the top and flat end (negative) at the bottom. The battery with 2 foam buffers goes in first followed by the battery with 1 grey foam buffer, with the grey foam being at the top. The spring is loose in the tail cap. With the batteries already in the tube, center the spring and put the bottom battery (both batteries already in the body) on top of the spring inside the tail cap. Tighten the tail cap on to the tube. If the laser won’t turn it is probably that the batteries aren’t making a proper connection. Remove the batteries and then try reinserting them again.
Charger use: The red wire goes to the vented (positive end) of the battery. The black wire goes to the flat (negative) end of the battery. Hook up the charger to the battery then plug it in to a USB port. The battery will be supported just by the magnets and can dangle from the wires. The red LED light will come on signifying that is charging. The red LED will go out when it terminates the charge to the battery signifying it is ready for use. Remove the charger from the USB port then disconnect the battery. FULLY CHARGE BOTH batteries before putting them back into the laser. With fully charged batteries you have approximately 70-80 minutes of run-time for the laser. If you ever see a lessening of the light intensity, STOP using the laser or you may undercharge the batteries. I suggest fully charging both batteries whenever you get a chance to lessen the risk of undercharging the batteries.
If you burn things close to the face of the laser then smoke could coat the lens. Smoke particles adhere easily and happily to the shiny surface of the glass lens.
Suggested laser use cycle: 4 minutes on / 1 minute off.
TERMS AND AGREEMENT-
You are over 18 years of age. - You understand that the laser and laser components that are mentioned above are dangerous when not properly assembled into a finished product. - You will use the laser and components as an OEM product and properly incorporate them into a finished product.
- You will use these laser diodes in a safe and responsible manner and for a legal purpose.
- You are legally responsible for the use of these components, improper use of these components or their end products.
- You are legally responsible for any injury to anybody resulting from the use of or assembly of these components or their finished products.
- You accept this Laser as an OEM COMPONENT for integration in a system of YOUR OWN design and will be legally responsible from any and all LIABILITIES.
Legal Notice: The Laser Diodes and Modules are designed solely as an OEM component for incorporation into the customer's end products. Therefore, this laser does not and is not required to comply with the appropriate requirements of FDA 21 CFR, section 1040.10 and 1040.11 for complete laser products.
BY PURCHASING THIS ITEM YOU AGREE TO AND ACCEPT ALL THE PROVISIONS AND DISCLAIMERS IN THIS SALE FOR THE LASER PRODUCT.


I don't think I am a bad person, nor unethical. I am just trying to do the best I can at providing a high quality product. I am sorry so many saw fault with the way I handle things. I will try to be above reproach in the future.
If there is anything else I should change please don't hesitate to contact me.


Thanks

 

[Delorean Geek]

Sparkles, I'm probably one of the few that is halfway in your corner on this one. You should however offer to repair the laser free of cost(if you haven't done so already) as you just admitted that it was a fault of yours about the duty cycle clarification. An experienced laser guy would probably know not to run for no longer than a few minutes at a time, but a laser noob would take you at your word. Since you have made the necessary corrections to your post and there is only this one incident, I think your casualties are light. Make good and move on to a succesful business venture.

 

[romogracie]

I offered to do the repair for free. He has offered $30 for the diode if it turns out that a diode is bad. I have my friend meeting him tomorrow to pick up the laser. This is where he and I stand on this issue atm. The laser might have a simple wire loose, we will find out.

That is not quite true. Here is what happened in chronological order according to all of our PM's...

1. My laser breaks after a 10-minute LPM test

2. You refuse a free repair and ask me to ship it back to your friend's place where you do your laser work so you can quote me a repair cost

3. I ask how long it will take to repair assuming it's the diode and then ask if I can drop it off and pick it up the same day

4. You say about 2 hours and you'll call me when you're back in your friend's area

5. I ask if I can exchange my laser for another 1.9W unit and pay $30 for a potentially fried diode

6. You say you'll repair it for free only if I ship you the laser along with a new diode

7. I say I'm not 100% sure it's the diode and ask you how much exactly you want for a new diode or driver since I'm on a limited budget

8. I get no response

9. I post on your sales thread and ask you again to PM me a price quote for a new diode or driver

10. You finally respond and tell me to call your friend to pick up my laser, but still won't give me a price quote for repair
___________________________________________

I am done dealing with you and shipping my laser to a forum vet who will diagnose the problem. If the diode needs to be replaced, you can pay him directly if you feel that's the right thing to do. If you don't want to pay him, then so be it and I'll cover the cost myself.

 

[Flaminpyro]

So I'm wondering if your such an honest guy why it took a bunch of people -neg repping you so you would be "above reproach"
Will we have to keep looking at you to make sure you do the right thing I don't think I want to spend any more time dealing
with you deboggles, I have plenty to do with out baby sitting.

maby you should just sit back and watch for a while insted of trying to become a laser king overnight, or move to china.

Keep you day job your going to need it !

I will try to be above reproach in the future

 

[qumefox]

Keep you day job your going to need it !

Not to mention selling complete non-compliant lasers in the US is generally frowned upon by a certain regulatory agency, and I imagine the fines should one catch their attention wouldn't be cheap.

Selling one here or there is generally tolerated.. so long as it isn't wide spread... or advertised.

Doing both... coupled with other... inconsistencies... about this whole debacle, is sure to (and has) aroused the ire in most forum members, myself included, that don't want to see our hobby legislated out of existence.

 

[Flaminpyro]

Finally some one has hit the nail right on the head :bowdown:

Not to mention selling complete non-compliant lasers in the US is generally frowned upon by a certain regulatory agency, and I imagine the fines should one catch their attention wouldn't be cheap.

Selling one here or there is generally tolerated.. so long as it isn't wide spread... or advertised.

Doing both... coupled with other... inconsistencies... about this whole debacle, is sure to (and has) aroused the ire in most forum members, myself included, that don't want to see our hobby legislated out of existence.

 

[JLSE]

don't want to see our hobby legislated out of existence.

While I agree with your entire post, one thing should be mentioned..
Its not the hobby blues, violets, or reds that cause major issues..

It is the cheap 532's from china that have raised all sorts of hell.
Back when a 5mW 532nm cost 300.$ for a pen, incidents with aircraft
were next to none... yet there were 200mW reds being made and sold.

I have never read a news article, nor watched a news report on youtube
which pointed at red, violet, or blue.. Maybe 445 mistaken for a UFO
but thats about it. Maybe the arctics.. but not re: aircraft.

China gave birth to the 20$ 5 ~ 50mW 532nm and all hell broke loose.
So to be fair, I wouldnt blame the bad attention to lasers on guys like
myself selling here and there.

 

[DTR]

@Sparky

The thing I can't understand is the unit was one day old. Why would you just not tell him to send it back and exchange it for a different one? He had said it died after a battery change. That would tell me that there is a good chance that it is just some connection issue. Which would be an easy fix for a master like you and let you avoid any customer service issues. Turn a negative into a positive and it will work wonders for you. Also if you are offering a product it is important that you are very specific and knowledgeable about it. You saying you are new and don't know the proper terminology. Well that would be important to have in hand before starting a venture unless you want it to crash around you.

 

[hakzaw1]

Spark-
you already missed your chance to do right in this matter.

READ UP on the legality of your laser sales. Didnt you wonder why so few are selling the way you have.? Or why no others make claims of non-stop duty cycles?

This whole thing may be a blessing in disguise.

It would only be a matter of time before you got 'The Letter' followed by an in-person visit by a guy or two in suits. My best advice is to give the guy another diode and let him choose who fixes it. And go to selling kits or nothing at all and only to those who know what they will have and how to use it safely.

You would be getting off lucky IMHO.

Have you considered what can happen if someone does the unthinkable with a laser that you built? First questions will be: 'Where did you get that?' 'Who sold it to you?' You may have already sold one to the FDA. This is an open forum- GL you may need it.


hak

 

[Flaminpyro]

I just recieved this PM from Jayrob and have permission to quote him:

[quote from Jay]
We had a conversation and I told him that I did not think it was cool to copy. A similar conversation that you and I had...

Only he did not care the same as you did. Not everybody has respect for others.

Your have more manhood in your pinky finger than he will ever amount to.

There is nothing that I can do about it. Which is why I chose not to start any drama about it.

I'm kind of 'beat down' these days. Because others are also copying stuff. Like Garoq. He is copying my black 18650 kit.

Same deal there. We talked. And he basically didn't care how I felt about it.

I guess your a rare person Jeff.

Basically it's a dog eat dog world, and I guess I'm wearing milk bone underwear!

If I thought that people (more than one or two) would take my side, then I would say something in his thread. But I know that I would get a ton of young people taking his side. And it would start a bunch of drama.

And since I know he doesn't care (because we already talked), then there is really nothing I can do.

I just hope he falls on his face!

Looks like he's starting to do just that!
[unquote]

Now is this fair that a respected member should be faced with this just because some punk want to copy his designs to make money, what the hell has come of this forum it's time to take a stand a do what is right, if he dosn't care what a respected member thinks why should we care about him I think a ban is in order :banned:

 

[weidmark]

I just recieved this PM from Jayrob and have permission to quote him:

[quote from Jay]
We had a conversation and I told him that I did not think it was cool to copy. A similar conversation that you and I had...

Only he did not care the same as you did. Not everybody has respect for others.

Your have more manhood in your pinky finger than he will ever amount to.

There is nothing that I can do about it. Which is why I chose not to start any drama about it.

I'm kind of 'beat down' these days. Because others are also copying stuff. Like Garoq. He is copying my black 18650 kit.

Same deal there. We talked. And he basically didn't care how I felt about it.

I guess your a rare person Jeff.

Basically it's a dog eat dog world, and I guess I'm wearing milk bone underwear!

If I thought that people (more than one or two) would take my side, then I would say something in his thread. But I know that I would get a ton of young people taking his side. And it would start a bunch of drama.

And since I know he doesn't care (because we already talked), then there is really nothing I can do.

I just hope he falls on his face!

Looks like he's starting to do just that!
[unquote]

Now is this fair that a respected member should be faced with this just because some punk want to copy his designs to make money, what the hell has come of this forum it's time to take a stand a do what is right, if he dosn't care what a respected member thinks why should we care about him I think a ban is in order :banned:

I think most people would be either on jayrob's side or impartial, I can't see many people taking Sparkles side on this one.

He definately should have just exchanged it for a new unit from the start and take the $35ish dollar hit (if it was even a diode problem). This whole mess would have been avoided.

 

[Coherent Light]

Sounds like this adventure was purely to make money on His part, So why would He want to take the hit and lose some profit?

My 0.02