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FrozenGate by Avery

GB laser barrels

Kenom,
Noob to forum and lasers. Just read 26 pgs and would love to get a home for the 405 nm I'll be harvesting from a KES 400. I'm definitely on for one in the next group
 





Ok so the consensus seems to be black. I prefer black to the gold. If you all had seen the gold you wouldn't be too impressed. I know I sure wasn't. I'll inquire to see if black will incur any more costs. I'm pretty sure it shouldn't. I personally don't prefer black. I prefer silver. BUT, keeping it non-anodized will be worse in the long run.
 
Cant you get a clear coating applied to it?

I know its possible as ive seen it done to aluminium and steel before.
 
well if you can I don't know nor does the manufacturer know about any process that can be used to keep this silver. I'm going to be talking to some anodizing companies to see if there is somethign we can do.
 
This is the GB that never ends..
yes it goes on and on my friends..
Somebody started it, not knowing what it was
And they'll continue running it forever, just because
This is the GB that never ends..
yes it goes on and on my friends..
Somebo

:P

Black is good
 
cant you like paint a clear coat over the bare metal, it would turn out nice and shiny...and...silver

silver ftw
 
most clear coats, even enamel, allow enough oxygen through that the AL greys over time.
 
Hi all,
I just joined the forum 2 days ago, and I have just finished reading the entire thread twice, looks like I missed out on this run, are there any spots left open?
If not I am in for (2) for the next run, is there a waiting-list somewhere?
Also, I am A mechanical designer buy profession, I do all of my design in CatiaV5,(3-d modeling software), for the aerospace industry, and I work on development projects that are like this everyday, (although usually large machines), Kenom has done a great jod of moderating the suggestions, all suggestions are good, but if everybody gets thier way, it will not work in the end.
I think you have very close to an ideal design, (ideal is not ever possible, just like a wish), great job!!
A couple of comments for earlier posts, regarding threading- I know this has already been decided, but FYI- they threads are not a problem, the CNC-lathe will cut whatever you program it to Diaxthreads per inch, anything you want, and this will not take 10-minutes, more like 10 seconds, not a big price driver. In sum, I think you made the right choice not using a "cut-down" Aixiz module for the external threads, this would not be the "OEM-sollution" you were looking for.
Also, die are used for "chasing" or cleaning existing damaged, not for producing newly cut threads, especially super-fine threads such as these, I know you can get away with it sometimes in the garage, but not for this, they would be rough, and probably lots of scrapped barrels trying.
There is clear annodizing available, I have worked with at least (4) anodizers in my area (near Seattle Washington), and I am surprised you are having trouble finding this, clear competes with black as the most common, in fact all anodizing is clear, a organinc dye is added after the anodizing, but prior to the "sealing" (immersion in hot water to close the "scales" of aluminum oxide crystals, captureing the dye molecules inside, like a tatoo in the skin), no dye=no color, but the same protection. If fact, when you buy aluminum "bar-stock" material, the original surfaces are almost always anondized from the mill, unless specified otherwise, this can sometimes be a problem when welding. Of coarse when you machine the metal, the anodizing is removed from those surfaces, in this case, all of the surfaces will be machined, the bar-stock surface finish is not very good anyways.
Sorry for the referrances to to old posts, I do not know how quote yet, I just thought I would add some of my expetise, since so many of you have so much to add on the opto-eletronic end of things.
All of this being said, I would not change anything you have in the final design, and your price control is incredible!
I would alway vote for Black anondizing/Black Button.
Let me know If I can help with some advice on the metal-working, but sounds like you have it under control, again, great job!!!!
Dark Horse
 
boy wouldn't that be cool. manufacturer hasn't even finished up with the drawings. sat down with him on friday to go over some dimensions I also got some pictures of what the anodizing looks like on a few parts he's done. it is more gray than I originally thought. I'm still hoping that they will complete things by the time they indicated but I don't think that's going to happen.

Bluefusion still hasn't completed his prototype for the driver let alone verified that the driver will work. ONce the driver is verified then the components need to get ordered, shipped, then assembled, then shipped to me to be shipped to you all.

Tell ya this is takin longer than I expected but we WILL get er' done.

As lava said.

This is the GB that never ends.
hehe.
 
Dark_Horse said:
Hi all,
I just joined the forum 2 days ago, and I have just finished reading the entire thread twice, looks like I missed out on this run, are there any spots left open?
If not I am in for (2) for the next run, is there a waiting-list somewhere?
Also, I am A mechanical designer buy profession, I do all of my design in CatiaV5,(3-d modeling software),  for the aerospace industry, and I work on development projects that are like this everyday, (although usually large machines), Kenom has done a great jod of moderating the suggestions, all suggestions are good, but if everybody gets thier way, it will not work in the end.
I think you have very close to an ideal design, (ideal is not ever possible, just like a wish), great job!!
A couple of comments for earlier posts, regarding threading- I know this has already been decided, but FYI- they threads are not a problem, the CNC-lathe will cut whatever you program it to Diaxthreads per inch, anything you want, and this will not take 10-minutes, more like 10 seconds, not a big price driver. In sum, I think you made the right choice not using a "cut-down" Aixiz module for the external threads, this would not be the "OEM-sollution" you were looking for.
Also, die are used for "chasing" or cleaning existing damaged, not for producing newly cut threads, especially super-fine threads such as these, I know you can get away with it sometimes in the garage, but not for this, they would be rough, and probably lots of scrapped barrels trying.
There is clear annodizing available, I have worked with at least (4) anodizers in my area (near Seattle Washington), and I am surprised you are having trouble finding this, clear competes with black as the most common, in fact all anodizing is clear, a organinc dye is added after the anodizing, but prior to the "sealing" (immersion in hot water to close the "scales" of aluminum oxide crystals, captureing the dye molecules inside, like a tatoo in the skin), no dye=no color, but the same protection. If fact, when you buy aluminum "bar-stock" material, the original surfaces are almost always anondized from the mill, unless specified otherwise, this can sometimes be a problem when welding. Of coarse when you machine the metal, the anodizing is removed from those surfaces, in this case, all of the surfaces will be machined, the bar-stock surface finish is not very good anyways.
Sorry for the referrances to to old posts, I do not know how quote yet, I just thought I would add some of my expetise, since so many of you have so much to add on the opto-eletronic end of things.
All of this being said, I would not change anything you have in the final design, and your price control is incredible!
I would alway vote for Black anondizing/Black Button.
Let me know If I can help with some advice on the metal-working, but sounds like you have it under control, again, great job!!!!
Dark Horse
Click to expand...


All I can say is WOW! I'm thrilled that my design has sparked your interest and has gotten your seal of approval. I've put a LOT of thought into this design and it brings me joy unbridled to see everyone's positive response to this.

As far as the threads are concerned that was exactly what the manufacturer indicated would happen. They have a small blade that will custom cut the threads to just what we need. No tap required. I do however have a bottoming tap to clean up the threads on the finished product.

Please take a look at two particular flashlights and tell me what you think the anodizing is.
the first: http://www.dorcydirect.com/popup.aspx?src=images/PRODUCT/large/21.jpg
the second : http://www.dorcydirect.com/popup.aspx?src=images/PRODUCT/large/15.jpg

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the second is clear anodized. but I'd like to know how they get it so glossy. it's kinda like it was painted with a enamel. The first is essentially what I'd like to see in my finished prduct.
 
Please take a look at two particular flashlights and tell me what you think the anodizing is.
the first:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the second is clear anodized.  but I'd like to know how they get it so glossy.  it's kinda like it was painted with a enamel.  The first is essentially what I'd like to see in my finished prduct.
Click to expand...

Kenom,
The first is either a clear,(no color added) anodize job, or nickel finish, (actually copper  and then nickel). The nickel is common on high-end paintball marker parts, (a past hobby).
The copper/nickel plating has a couple of drawbacks:
1 added thickness to the part, about .002"/inch, not much, but must be allowed for, or masked when specifying tight contacts such as press-fits and threads, espcially very fine threads. I have seen many batches of parts scrapped for this very reason. Anodizing also affects sizes, but about 1/10 as much, no material is deposited, but the surface of the aluminum is crystalized making it grow about .0002" per inch. This also makes it a good idea to have the person making the parts, also be responsible for the surface fininsh, if your parts do not screw together, it is thier fault/responsibility to fix, they likey work closly with a "plating shop" and understand how to make the final "OEM" parts work together. If you handle the plating/anodizing yourself, after you take delivery, it is all on you, your parts met specs from the manufacturer, but not after finish, now you have to pay, but cannot sell :'(. Just something to point out, I am sure someone has already taken this into account. I have often seen threads "masked" proior to plating, to prevent this issue, not sure which is best.
2 added cost, and added chance for scrap.

The clear anodizing-
The anodized finish is all about the pre-anodized finish, if you start with a glossy mirror-like finish, you will end up with one. The clear does not hide anything, so there is added cost for surface finish prior to plating, polishing is expensive!, or risk the part looking "cheap". Again, in the paitball world, it is common to have you marker stripped of its original finish, repolished to a high-lustre, and anodized in a wide array of colors and patterns, this costs between $600-$1000, check them out, they are incredible! If you start with a mediocre finish, and anodize it black, it will look great, not glossy, but nice, the same part in clear will look mediocre, not the "surgical-tool" look you might have hoped for.  Also as I stated before, even clear will make your dimensions grow, just a little bit, but enough the it will screw up the thread/press-fits, if not allowed for, or masked to prevent surface treatment, but the annodized threads are much more durable, such is the life of a designer :-?

Powder Coating
A third option, and possibly the surface treatment on the second flashlight, is clear, or in this case, tinted powder-coating. This is essentially an eopxy clear coat, but instead of being sprayed on wet, the part has electrical current run through it, dusted with a fine "epoxy-powder" that sticks to the part in a nice even coating, and the part is baked like this, powder melts into a film, cools and viola a nice durable surface finish, and it has "depth" to the finish because of its thickness. Annodizing can be very glossy, like a mirror, but never have any depth to it, as the finish lies right on the surface. You will have to mask the threads to use this. I would not recommend the powder coating for small and precise instruments like this, but I have seen it on more than a few flashlights, looks nice, (always looks like a a paint job), but annodizing is, IMHO, the best way to go for this.
Sorry for the ramblings, I have been reading your forum for my Christmas holiday, and I got a litte excited about being able to contribute back a little.
I am both humbled and in awe at the collection of genius, talet, motivation, and politness that I have seen here, good job.
Thank you
BTW, Offcially, I would love to order (2) of your barrel kits, are there any available at this time, or a waiting list somewhere? ;D
 
masking the threads and press fit area was one of the things we were discussing this last friday.  Since the anodizing adds material to the barrel, it's important to change the dimensions so the extra material doesn't affect the functionality of the barrel.  Masking, incurrs extra cost, and that's not something that I'm all that crazy about, but in the press fit area it's pretty important.  

I at this time don't have a list for interested folks for the second run as I was thinking of increasing the # of barrels I run on my first run.  I'm also not so sure there will be a second run.  These barrels design in essence is a great design, in theory. But theory doesn't get tested until a product is actually available to test.  Since we havn't tested the actual barrel I don't know for sure if it's going to work and if another run is warranted, or if folks are still going to be interested in more once the finished product is seen.

considering the initial interest in these I'm figuring that the design is sound and will be exactly what we want it to be.  well, we'll see.
I've got a lot riding on this workin out. If the first run works out well, I'll be producing these by the 1000's. (i can dream right?) I'm also going to be working up a c-mount module for use of c-mount laser diodes with optics. Also making basic aluminum aixiz type modules and some block style labby modules as well. I've got a few things in the works.
 
Ken - Plate the pocket and we can scrape the area with an Exacto knife. That's what I do.

Mike
 
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