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FrozenGate by Avery

GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED

plexus said:
rhd, where did you get these quotes? are those actually from their site or did you create those as an example? if they are on their site can you post the links to where those statements are? that would help. thanks.
Click to expand...

I just clicked on the "Our Policy" link at the very bottom of their main webpage.

It's useful to be as clear, concise, and direct as possible.
 
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Ok everyone...I have a corporate account with Capitol One and decided to contact them today...not to file a dispute but to gather information regarding the dispute process. I explained the situation to a dispute specialist and much to my surprise this guy fully understood my issues and was able to repeat them back to me concisely...from what I could tell he fully understood the issue with the power output, the cross threaded tail cap, and the button that doesn't make proper contact. After a lengthy conversation about these issues I was advised by this representative to file the dispute now while it is in the 7 day window of receipt. He advised if I filed the dispute now they would credit my account back the money within 3 days. What happens next is the merchant must prove that they followed their stated return policy and if they could not or I could provide proof to the contrary, the credit would stay on my account. If they can prove they followed their ststed policy then the credit would be removed from my account. In talking with the dispute specialist he assured me if they did not immediately offer an RMA number when I requested one (as per their policy) then the case was pretty much a closed case in my favor. At this point he advised that I keep all emails and records in case they need them. He seemed to think they wouldn't due to the stated return policy on their website. Basically Lazerman must provide the RMA number for my return (which doesn't exist) and if the can't or don't, case is settled in my favor.

Bottom line is, I took his advice and filed the dispute. I can close it at anytime if Lazerman decides to comply with my requests. For now I will keep ot open and let the process take care of itself....my peace of mind is worth more than $340 to be honest and at this point my peace of mind has been restored at leat for now.

RHD, I appreciate your advice and remarks but I felt this was my best option given all attempts at resolution with Lazeman has been a dead end so far.

I will keep everyone abreast of this as it plays out.
 
Satisfaction Guarantee

Lasersman is pleased to offer a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied with your product, you may return it within 7 days of receipt for a full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!

Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units.

Was that last part there before? Because it is now!
 
Jmillerdoc said:
Ok everyone...I have a corporate account with Capitol One and decided to contact them today...not to file a dispute but to gather information regarding the dispute process. I explained the situation to a dispute specialist and much to my surprise this guy fully understood my issues and was able to repeat them back to me concisely...from what I could tell he fully understood the issue with the power output, the cross threaded tail cap, and the button that doesn't make proper contact. After a lengthy conversation about these issues I was advised by this representative to file the dispute now while it is in the 7 day window of receipt. He advised if I filed the dispute now they would credit my account back the money within 3 days. What happens next is the merchant must prove that they followed their stated return policy and if they could not or I could provide proof to the contrary, the credit would stay on my account. If they can prove they followed their ststed policy then the credit would be removed from my account. In talking with the dispute specialist he assured me if they did not immediately offer an RMA number when I requested one (as per their policy) then the case was pretty much a closed case in my favor. At this point he advised that I keep all emails and records in case they need them. He seemed to think they wouldn't due to the stated return policy on their website. Basically Lazerman must provide the RMA number for my return (which doesn't exist) and if the can't or don't, case is settled in my favor.

Bottom line is, I took his advice and filed the dispute. I can close it at anytime if Lazerman decides to comply with my requests. For now I will keep ot open and let the process take care of itself....my peace of mind is worth more than $340 to be honest and at this point my peace of mind has been restored at leat for now.

RHD, I appreciate your advice and remarks but I felt this was my best option given all attempts at resolution with Lazeman has been a dead end so far.

I will keep everyone abreast of this as it plays out.
Click to expand...

Well that actually makes some sense. In that case, I would still encourage you to send one final email where you very clearly say "I want an RMA as stated in your policy."
- Otherwise, they might claim that it wasn't clear that you were only interested in an RMA, and might claim that their policy wasn't engaged.
 
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jcranmer said:
Satisfaction Guarantee

Lasersman is pleased to offer a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied with your product, you may return it within 7 days of receipt for a full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!

Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units.

Was that last part there before? Because it is now!
Click to expand...

Good catch, we all missed that. It was there before :(
Google Cach LasersMan: Laser Pointers & Laser Pointer Pen Online Shop

I think the way that page lays it out, made it easy to miss.
 
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jcranmer said:
Yep, I just took a closer look and noticed there were 2 conflicting Satisfaction Guaranteed polices stated. One right on top of the other. :wtf:
Click to expand...

I actually think you guys are fine, despite that provision. Look at how it appears:

Satisfaction Guarantee
Lasersman is pleased to offer a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. If you are not completely satisfied with your product, you may return it within 7 days of receipt for a full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!
Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units.

Satisfaction Guarantee.
If you are not 100% satisfied with your purchase, return it within 7 days for a full refund. Absolutely no questions asked!
Click to expand...

These are two different Satisfaction Guarantees:
- The first, offers a "...full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!"
- The second, offers a "...full refund. Absolutely no questions asked!"

These are different guarantees, because they offer different things. One gives you a refund in full, the other a refund minus shipping costs. The first one happens to not apply to portable laser units. It says: "Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units." So you can't utilize this first guarantee.

The second guarantee has no limitation indicated. So you guys will only want to rely on that second guarantee.
 
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rhd said:
I actually think you guys are fine, despite that provision. Look at how it appears:



These are two different Satisfaction Guarantees:
- The first, offers a "...full refund minus shipping cost. No questions asked!"
- The second, offers a "...full refund. Absolutely no questions asked!"

These are different guarantees, because they offer different things. One gives you a refund in full, the other a refund minus shipping costs. The first one happens to not apply to portable laser units. It says: "Please note this offer does not apply to our portable laser units." So you can't utilize this first guarantee.

The second guarantee has no limitation indicated. So you guys will only want to rely on that second guarantee.
Click to expand...

Also from past experience with CC disputes, its incumbent on the vendor (Lasersman in this case) to be clear about their policies. any confusion is their responsibility typically.

More important is that in other areas of the site where their refund policy and warranty are stated, there is no mention of an exclusion of any products and i frankly did not look at the page with the exclusion. once i saw the refund policy on the customer-service page i took that as their policy.

http://www.lasersman.com/about-us/
http://www.lasersman.com/FAQs/
http://www.lasersman.com/customer-service/
 
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rhd said:
Well that actually makes some sense. In that case, I would still encourage you to send one final email where you very clearly say "I want an RMA as stated in your policy."
- Otherwise, they might claim that it wasn't clear that you were only interested in an RMA, and might claim that their policy wasn't engaged.
Click to expand...

I have requested an RMA with every email sent to them...I believe they number five to date.

In response to the satisfaction guarantee....define a portable unit...I reviewed the ad for the laser I bought and nowhere did it say it was a portable unit.

These guys are clearly shady...do they sell a non portable unit???

I am waiting for an RMA, if they don't issue one I will end up with a refund AND a laser to boot? I asked my CC if I would be required to send the laser back if a final award was found in my favor....basically, yes, but only at their expense. They will be required to arrange pickup from the point pf delivery. I don't see that happening but maybe they will....they are really digging themselves a deep hole. It simply doesn't make any sense...they lose big time on a forum like this. They lose reputation AND their product when they do this stuff.
 
^^^

Conceivably a portable unit is one you can move around. so everything they sell is portable. the statement is neither relevant nor defined.

I will likely ask for a dispute opened tomorrow but I will give them until tomorrow to respond. Likely even if they respond I will open a CC dispute because really, why should I have to bother with this. they would have 45 days to resolve the issue once the dispute is open and so the later i leave it the less i have leverage. having the dispute open even if they do issue an RMA puts pressure on them to follow through. normally I wouldn't use this tactic if a company does right when the issue is initiated with them. but that this point I feel its leverage I need to have in order to protect myself. alas.
 
hello, everyone, I have hastened our after-sale to deal this, and the processing is going, you know, when you are in day, we are night, so, there should be some delay, and this time, we should be meet at the end, thanks for you all keep eyes on the event, and I believe we should be turn out to be reliable. It is a sorrow to ship Jmillerdoc and plexus laser with flaw, and this troubled you too much, I apologize for our unintentional mistakes. As you mentioned above " portable", I clarify it, we will refund you or ship you another qualified laser, don't worry about that.
 
ok LPKath, looking forward to it. canyou please tell them to pack it well. nothing should be able to shift around. there should br a good amount of bubblw wrap all around the laser, not just one layer - at least 4 layers and more to make things not shift.
 
I just want to thank Kath publicly for attempting to reconcile these problems. Kath, you have been in every way very helpful and considerate and I appreciate this very much. Unfortunately the service dept has not been so helpful. Thanks for attempting to intervene on my behalf, I do hope this comes to a reasonable end.
 
I just received a PM from Kath stating they have all my information and will be mailing me some forms to fill out to get the return underway. I will keep everyone here informed on how this turns out...I an leaving my dispute open with the CC company until it is finalized.
 
after a bit of thought i emailed service at laserman to cancel my order yesterday. i haven't heard anything so far after 24 hrs.
 
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