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FrozenGate by Avery

GB #2: LaserMan (Dinodirect) FireDragon 250, 300, 500mW GroupBuy - CLOSED






rhd said:
Well - there's no way to know what actually happened, so I won't draw any conclusions.

But I'm done with this notion of giving my credit card directly to a website. Find a way to make Paypal work, or go with Google checkout - but I'm not willing to use my credit card directly with *any* website anymore.
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Another lesson learned... the hard way..:cryyy:

Jmillerdoc said:
RHD...did they itemize the two unknown charges? or were they not included on the account since they were suspect by the card company? can you inquire as to who charged the account....this would be very interesting info.

I am beginning to have a large degree of distrust in vendors who don't use PayPal for web based purchases...PayPal has the greatest degree of protection for the consumer that I understand vendors will literally go broke for doing crappy business and using PayPal due to the charge backs they get. Having PayPal as an option for payment virtually assures you a good outcome should the vendor not live up to their part of the agreement.

I recall somewhere in the GB thread there was initially the ability to use PayPal but then that was pulled....the excuse was that Laserman received word from PayPal they would not service their business because "lasers are dangerous"....how is it then the other vendors selling lasers have PayPal as a payment option? Were they implying Laserman's lasers were dangerous? or is there more to the story here?
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There you go... Use PayPal or find the item elsewhere...

Jerry
 
Paypal is great for dispute and trust me you'll need all the protection you can get if you buy from Lasersman. My credit card company is pretty good when it comes to disputes but I have to give them iron clad documentation for my case because they only get one chance to go to bat for me. Paypal generally doesn't need all this info.
 
Jmillerdoc said:
RHD...did they itemize the two unknown charges? or were they not included on the account since they were suspect by the card company? can you inquire as to who charged the account....this would be very interesting info.
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No they didn't. Credit card companies don't have access to an itemized receipt, they generally only know where the card was used and for how much.

From the name of the locations, I think they were two tourist destinations in France, but the purchases were made online. They were small value charges, and I think that is what the people who actually use the stolen cards often do. I think they place relatively small "test" charges before using a card for anything major. Luckily it was caught, and nothing got charged to me personally.

Out of sheer curiosity, I would be interested to know whether the CC company got stuck with the loss, or the retailer that processed (unknowingly I presume) the fraudulent charges.

Needless to say, I would encourage everyone here to check their CC statements. If nobody else encountered this, I might actually chat with one of the other legitimate charges on my card that could have been the compromise vector.
 
rhd said:
If nobody else encountered this, I might actually chat with one of the other legitimate charges on my card that could have been the compromise vector.
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When I first saw your list of charges, my gut reaction was to blame the dentist's office. However I chalked that up to my normal unfair distrust of the medical profession. :D

Although they might still rank up there pretty high on my list, unless this is someone whom you frequent and you know and trust the office staff. (This is partly based on them being the least tech savy place on your list)
 
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jcranmer said:
When I first saw your list of charges, my gut reaction was to blame the dentist's office. However I chalked that up to my normal unfair distrust of the medical profession. :D

Although they might still rank up there pretty high on my list, unless this is someone whom you frequent and you know and trust the office staff. (This is partly based on them being the least tech savy place on your list)
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Yep, that's my backup theory.
 
No, no, no...the dentist office screws you openly...they just keep sending you bills they expect you to pay with no explanation of what they are for....

I recently had some dental work done...a root canal. I think I have had a dozen bills since that visit six months ago. The bills never make sense and they never say what the charge is for...I think they just make crap up and keep sending bills to their patients who actually pay their bills...why stop a good thing, right?

Hope I didn't upset any dentists out there....but for real, it seems like this is what happens...
 
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BTW...I have sent about six emails to Laserman requesting clarification of the instructions they gave me to lie on the customs declaration form....still no response. I bet they never do respond about this...

Also no new word from my credit card company regarding the chargeback to Laserman...I think I have about 25 or so more days to wait until the dispute is closed.

RHD, I'm over my cold so tonight I am gonna finish putting the laser back together and get some new LPM data.
Cheers!
 
And the worst part is that our health coverage in Canada doesn't cover dentistry. Arghh. And most of the coverage packages you get from employers here only cover 50 to 80%, so we're stuck paying 20 to 50% of the bills out of pocket :(
 
rhd said:
And the worst part is that our health coverage in Canada doesn't cover dentistry. Arghh. And most of the coverage packages you get from employers here only cover 50 to 80%, so we're stuck paying 20 to 50% of the bills out of pocket :(
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You know the smart a$$ in me whats to make a comment on this statement, but since I consider us friends, I'll have to sit on my hands. :na:
 
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It looks like Lasersman took the 500mw laser from this group buy off their site. I can't find it (if you do, post the link). The SKU is A0878000BU0107 but their site search doesn't allow for searching SKU's so I had to look over the list of the green lasers. Seems to be gone.

No matter, I took a screen shot of it. If anyone needs the screen shot let me know and I will email it to you.

It could be they are trying to "hide" the problems with this laser because of the credit card dispute now open on them about this.

EDIT: actually, the screen shot i have is for a A0878000 CB 0107 and not the A0878000 BU 0107 that is showing on the invoice. fishy. did they sell us lasers that they don't actually have catalogue for? never the less, i have an email from LPKath that states that its certified to be >500mw so that at least is proof its out of spec. this company is way too fishy for me despite the good prices.

If you check the original links posted in this group buy:

Option 3 - FireDragon III 532nm 500mW - Site price $423.99, GB discount price roughly $339.19
Firedragon-III 532nm 500mW Flashlight Style Elite Green Laser Pointer Kit(Certified Power Guaranteed)

The link no longer works. Lasersman = Scammers, man!
 
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I tried the wayback machine but it doesn't have a page archived for the product. I was able to get a page with 3 lasers including the 500mw. the title states certified power guaranteed so that's enough to show its not as advertised. my dispute is going slower but it is in action. i will let you know what the net result is when its over with. my laser isn't even sellable right now because of the beam quality. maybe it could be repaired but i don't want to touch it until the dispute is resolved.
 
plexus said:
It looks like Lasersman took the 500mw laser from this group buy off their site. I can't find it (if you do, post the link). The SKU is A0878000BU0107 but their site search doesn't allow for searching SKU's so I had to look over the list of the green lasers. Seems to be gone.

No matter, I took a screen shot of it. If anyone needs the screen shot let me know and I will email it to you.

It could be they are trying to "hide" the problems with this laser because of the credit card dispute now open on them about this.

EDIT: actually, the screen shot i have is for a A0878000 CB 0107 and not the A0878000 BU 0107 that is showing on the invoice. fishy. did they sell us lasers that they don't actually have catalogue for? never the less, i have an email from LPKath that states that its certified to be >500mw so that at least is proof its out of spec. this company is way too fishy for me despite the good prices.

If you check the original links posted in this group buy:

Option 3 - FireDragon III 532nm 500mW - Site price $423.99, GB discount price roughly $339.19
Firedragon-III 532nm 500mW Flashlight Style Elite Green Laser Pointer Kit(Certified Power Guaranteed)

The link no longer works. Lasersman = Scammers, man!
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It could also be that they're doing the right thing in taking down a product that we've clearly illustrated to them isn't up to spec ;)

I mean, isn't this sort of exactly what you'd want a company to do? Stop selling a product that isn't living up to its description? I don't see how taking down the product will impair your ability to recover. They probably decided (correctly) not to sell this pointer anymore, in no small part because of the fact that we have two knowledgeable laser enthusiasts disputing that laser's specs.
 
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rhd said:
It could also be that they're doing the right thing in taking down a product that we've clearly illustrated to them isn't up to spec ;)

I mean, isn't this sort of exactly what you'd want a company to do? Stop selling a product that isn't living up to its description? I don't see how taking down the product will impair your ability to recover. They probably decided (correctly) not to sell this pointer anymore, in no small part because of the fact that we have two knowledgeable laser enthusiasts disputing that laser's specs.
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Or they are trying to cover their asses from the disputes. my credit card companies require an "expert evaluation" letter that requires the published specs be disputed by an expert that sells a similar product. with no specs its hard to referenece anything. only thin we have is the power output and "certified" in the title. if the laser was say ok with power but say not in TEM00 you wouldnt be able to prove it was supposed be. the "expert" could not reference this spec and youd have no letter. a weaker case for when it gets reviewed.

Based in their poor customer support i would wager its more a sly ass saving manouveur than a nice thing to do nice people.
 
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