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Florida Shooting

TwinBeam

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If the thing is seen from the pessimistic point of view, I am optimistic instead, and I believe that sooner or later something will change for the better in our and in the life of all of us
IMO
 



Blarg King

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A big chuck of guns in the hands of criminals are guns stolen from regular, law-abiding citizens. Restrict and reduce the types and amounts of guns the average citizen can own, and you cut off a lot of the supply for criminals.

Honestly, I don't get how people can spout off that everyone having a gun is a good thing. Every statistic out there shows that 1st world countries with stricter gun control have dramatically fewer mass shootings than the USA. I mean for crying out loud, theres places in the USA where people can have a gun on them in public. You tried walking around with a gun in public here and you would be arrested in a heartbeat. The bulk majority of people up here with guns are hunters and police officers. And as a civilian you are extremely limited on the number of guns, type of gun, and amount of ammo you can have.
 

paul1598419

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One thing all the narcotic deaths have done is to cause insurance companies to decrease the number of pain meds they will cover and government has pressured doctors to do the same. I take prescription meds for pain and sleep. Both have been decreased this year, though the only thing that hasn't decreased is my pain. Instead of asking my doctor for a medication waiver from the insurance company, I am just paying for them out of my own pocket. The sleep meds are something I will just lose more sleep over, but my doctor now feels after years of taking these medications that I can have one or the other, but not both. :(
 

Andrew124C41

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We cant change the fact that children don't have 2 parents at home anymore, well over half of them don't, and many hardly have any parents at all, otherwise a lot of this crap would never get out the door.

I'm not going to talk about religion in this thread, but the main reason we have so many broken kids is because we have so many broken homes.


Why do democrats care so much about " Gun control " they don't, they care about control.

Hundreds die daily from drug overdose.

1000 plus die daily from hospital mistakes.

Tobacco is responsible for 90% of all lung cancer and is the number 1 preventable cause of premature death in America, but what does government do........a big fat TAX.

Until we rebuild the American family this will never stop, if we threw every civilian gun in America into a hole in the ground these broken kids would set off bombs, or deliver poison with drones....ok so we throw all civilian drones and toy airplanes into the giant gun hole, but we can't get rid of oxidizers and fuel, there is too much of our modern life that makes it easy to build bombs.....what about running people down with cars and trucks, no way will Americans give up their cars......we could put all the cars into the gun/drone hole and everyone ride bicycles and public transportation, just look at how much planet saving that alone would do.

Because as long as there are cars there's easy access to gasoline and that stuff burns like mad mixed with Styrofoam or soap powder, not to mention all by it's self.


How about rather than expelling the broken kids who weren't allowed on the property with a backpack before that, how about some mental health support for the broken kids???? They knew this Nikolas Cruz was messed up long before this happened......anyway if every gun and car and toy airplane is gone from his reach, would he not have set the school on fire? BUT WAIT....we could have security guards at schools once all the cars and guns and toy airplanes are gone......yes and we can do that right now too.

In a world of broken homes with more broken kids than ever we need to protect our schools, not toss all our cars into a hole in the ground.

Everything you have said is right on point. However, in addition, I will address "religion." In addition to everything else that has contributed to where our society is today, we have lost a moral compass. There is no truth. Everything is relative. If you do not want to be identified as a man or woman, you can be a barber pole and Canada is going even further than we are in making your questioning this a crime.

No moral compass. No family. It is like pouring gasoline on a fire for certain.

Sure, it would be nice if there were no guns or nukes or evil in the world for that matter, but there are. As you have pointed out, there are plenty of ways to wreak havoc without a firearm.

You can bet that the Dems will be having a field day with this.
 

RedCowboy

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It's their blanket solution, restrict the amount of opiate pain meds pain patients can get and there will be less illicit use and overdose.

It's complete bullshit, all the illegal heroin and much of it fortified with fentanyl is killing addicts, but stopping illegal drugs is difficult, just like stopping crazy people and terrorist, but your local pain management Dr. and the brick and mortar drug store and the pharma company are all easy targets that they can say something has been done....yes, chronic pain patients will suffer and some will turn to illegal drugs, some will die.

I don't see everything based on politics.

Women should be able to do what ever they want with their bodies, as long as something is growing inside them it's part of them, it's their choice = FREEDOM.

People should be able to take drugs or drink and smoke them selves to death so long as they don't directly harm others, for instance second hand smoke, or drunk driving. = FREEDOM.

Our Constitution gives us the right to keep and bear arms, says it shall not be infringed.

One person should not be held accountable for another persons actions........That's fair......RIGHT ????

You should not be made to suffer in pain because of junkies who abuse drugs and die or sell to kids who get addicted and die.

Is someone beats the crap out of a liquor store owner with a 2x4 you or I should not be jailed because we live in a wood framed house.

I should not and as long as I live WILL NOT EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! give up my AR-15 because some crazy bastard broke the law, it's already illegal to shoot up schools, illegal to blow up schools, burn down schools.

It's an easy answer to go after other peoples guns/medication to reduce a societal problem that's not our fault.

The entire class should not have to stay after school because one student did whatever.

It's about personal responsibility and FREEDOM, we all die, everyone dies, the question is how do we live and who decides, Put a dozen armed guards in every school, it will cost less than the 150 BILLION Barry gave to IRAN.

Now I may not get a say in how many airplane loads of cash got flown off in the night to our enemies, but I do have my Constitutional rights, and telling people they cant drink did not work, telling people they cant smoke didn't work, the patients rights act tied the hands of the overzealous DEA late 2016 but that took a bunch of pharma money, it wasn't about people who suffer.

So I send more money to the NRA because our government does not care about our suffering, they don't care about dead people, they care about power and control and no politician goes without protection or a pill that they need.
 
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Seoul_lasers

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A big chuck of guns in the hands of criminals are guns stolen from regular, law-abiding citizens. Restrict and reduce the types and amounts of guns the average citizen can own, and you cut off a lot of the supply for criminals.

Honestly, I don't get how people can spout off that everyone having a gun is a good thing. Every statistic out there shows that 1st world countries with stricter gun control have dramatically fewer mass shootings than the USA. I mean for crying out loud, theres places in the USA where people can have a gun on them in public. You tried walking around with a gun in public here and you would be arrested in a heartbeat. The bulk majority of people up here with guns are hunters and police officers. And as a civilian you are extremely limited on the number of guns, type of gun, and amount of ammo you can have.
I see 2 side of this. But first i'd like to address the argument made about the flow of illegal firearms in Canada (in defining illegal I am meaning though the drug trade) the legal sources quoted by the RCMP is BS used to justify their agenda of persecuting law abiding firearms owners. I agree that having everyone walking around armed is a wildly ridiculous idea, there are many good examples of why this just doesn't work.

-> On the comment of
Every statistic out there shows that 1st world countries with stricter gun control have dramatically fewer mass shootings than the USA.
You've forgotten that Switzerland, Finland and Czech republic have also lower gun crime than the US but yet maintain a very large private ownership. ( how come their stats are so low?) So the argument that strict gun laws = less shootings is not totally revenant and is (in my opinion) tad overly simplistic. Restrictive gun laws do not equate to lower crime in those countries I mentioned above. One large factor in virtually all mass shootings in the US, such as the one we saw a couple days ago, is the lack of access to mental health and overall health of a society.
The killer in Florida had all the warning signs of having something drastically wrong with him, but people allowed him to continue making threats and purchasing firearms.

I think licensing requirements in the US need a massive change.
 
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Andrew124C41

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I have mentioned previously that while at a country western dance during the two and a half years I worked in an underserved area of TN, I was shot and almost killed when a guy staged the kidnapping of his wife as a joke loading a regular.45 Western round instead of the blank he and a friend had made the night before. He was on a horse....the horse reared on the concrete floor of the airplane hanger where the dance took place....the gun was old and the sear worn down...the gun went off...the slug grazed the neck of a young attorney...then went through both of my thighs.

I was more pissed off by news articles calling it an accident than I was by being shot. I was so pissed off I wrote a letter to the editor stating that with respect to firearms there is no such thing as an accident.....and went into my usual tirade on the subject.

Some people who did not know the fact that I collected firearms thought I would be anti-gun. When anyone mentioned this I told them I was not anti-gun, a just anti idiot with a gun which just about sums up my thoughts about all of this.

Do any of you ever get miffed when you try and pull the safety seal off of bottles?

There are probably some here that are too young to know that we did not always have them. They were the result of some nut putting cyanide in Tylenol bottles.

For every crazy act government attempts to legislate a solution but can't seem to find a law that is a solution to ignorance and or evil.

Until they do I prefer that we have the choice to arm ourselves even if we cannot yet screen out idiots or evil people.
 

Alaskan

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Talk about stupid, how did they screw that one up? They shouldn't have been pulling a stunt like that in the first place, fire arms, whether real, fake or blanks shouldn't be something to use in any kind of performance, joke or what ever, if the public doesn't know it's all fake.

I remember when someone was putting poison in those bottles, what will they do next if some nut finds a way to put the seals back on those bottles himself? Legislate 3d laser graphic seals? I like those seals on there, but there are so many work arounds, if someone really wanted to do harm.
 
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You've forgotten that Switzerland, Finland and Czech republic have also lower gun crime than the US but yet maintain a very large private ownership. ( how come their stats are so low?) So the argument that strict gun laws = less shootings is not totally revenant and is (in my opinion) tad overly simplistic. Restrictive gun laws do not equate to lower crime in those countries I mentioned above. One large factor in virtually all mass shootings in the US, such as the one we saw a couple days ago, is the lack of access to mental health and overall health of a society.
I think this article might clear up your question on Switzerland's lower gun crime rate with a high private ownership rate.

The article a bit lengthy, but I do believe it's worth the effort for most people to read.

Also keep in mind this did come out back in 2013, so some of the data such as numbers has changed, but ultimately the explanation still holds validity.

Switzerland guns: Living with firearms the Swiss way - BBC News
 

Andrew124C41

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Alaskan lol....I wish I had the answer to your question but I never got one that made any sense. The guy was a sort of wanna be cowboy around 40 years old. What I was told by the police is that he and his friend made the blanks the night before by pulling out the bullets from the cartridge. They did it over paper, poured the powder back in and plugged it with tissue paper...something like that. How one would not know the difference between that and a .45 Colt, or what I sometimes call Western is beyond me. How could he miss that big old slug?

You say you like the safety seals and I understand and agree. However, if we take ourselves back in time prior to the Tylenol incident, we found it perfectly normal NOT to find any safety seals because they did not exist. The new normal evolves from the response to the new crazy. One gets to the point of absurdity in attempting to legislate away the inherent risk in living in a modern society. It cannot be done.

I noticed something in the article about Switzerland. The author stated that with the Swiss, it is about national safety, with Americans, it is about self defense. However, as well all know, while there has been an evolution perhaps in thinking among many Americans in terms of personal safety, the truth is, it has always been about the second amendment. At the time it was written, the thinki9ng was that we have to be vigilent and be able to defend ourselves against our own government should it become rouge...tyrannical.

However, at the time, they had no idea that one day man would be able to fly and do so armed with guns and bombs, drive virtually indestructible tanks...have all the weapons of war that we have today. Unless the military aligns itself with the people in such a scenario, the militia would not be armed properly to defend us. Let's hope it never comes to this.
 

paul1598419

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I think this article might clear up your question on Switzerland's lower gun crime rate with a high private ownership rate.

The article a bit lengthy, but I do believe it's worth the effort for most people to read.

Also keep in mind this did come out back in 2013, so some of the data such as numbers has changed, but ultimately the explanation still holds validity.

Switzerland guns: Living with firearms the Swiss way - BBC News
I knew there were many good reasons why gun deaths were lower in countries like Switzerland and The Netherlands, but after verbally banging my head against the wall in favor of stricter gun regulations, I didn't want to do the necessary search for the answers.

I am not against gun ownership, but I do believe that with so very many guns in the hands of anyone who wants as many as they can get, there is room now for the pendulum to swing the other way and have some sensible gun regulations.

Some here are too young to remember that it wasn't until a right leaning SCOTUS did give some weight to the last part of the second amendment and only in this century codify a right to have guns. Justice Burger, despite his conservative bona fides, did not believe the 2nd amendment created an individual right to possess guns.

On the contrary, he said, "the Second Amendment has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."
Burger, speaking for the majority of judges and lawyers, said the Second Amendment was meant to forbid the federal government from abolishing state militias.

Most people in favor of this forget that the entire amendment reads, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

On December 15, 1791, when the Second Amendment was ratified, women could not vote, people were allowed to own other people and guns had to be reloaded after every shot. The Second Amendment, as Justice Burger said, was never meant to create an individual right to own guns, but to forbid the federal government from abolishing state militias.
 

RedCowboy

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Justice Scalia straightened it out, and Trump is appointing judges, in the next 7 years he may fill a couple more SCOTUS seats.

Take a look at the New York SAFE act and how all but 2 counties had new laws passed to overturn it, because citizens simply would not comply.
 
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paul1598419

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Expecting Trump to remain in the White House for seven more years is beyond optimistic. And Scalia didn't get the permanent ruling that ties the hands of everyone else. Just because some gun owners don't comply with laws doesn't mean there is no course out of this quagmire. It is a short lived hiccup in society that I feel confident will change in my lifetime.
 

RedCowboy

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I doubt it, we could see some BS crime bill like Clinton did when and if we get a Dem majority and POTUS, but it will be hard fought and won't last, plus the way our union has been divided I wouldn't be surprised if we had some sanctuary gun States, hell we already have varying gun law State to State as well as State sponsored counter law of other Federal law and any anti gun agenda that has long term success will be slowly won, constantly challenged, and with just the sheer number of firearms likely to fail as criminals will always have guns, because criminals don't obey laws, and then the pendulum will swing back as people demand their God given right to self defense.
 

paul1598419

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Federal laws always trump state laws. It is difficult to gauge who owns what and where, but the majority of American voters do believe in common sense gun regulation. The federal government still has the right to pass gun regs as do the states.
 

RedCowboy

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This is our Country, it belongs to the people and our Government is supposed to works for us, now the guilty as hell power brokers do want a disarmed peasant class, the rich will always get special permits, but at some point the people will stand up to tyranny, that's why any anti gun agenda will be a slow cooking, and it will never be like Europe. Not in our lifetimes. Things may well swing back in the peoples favor and were until Las Vegas, and we still have not been told all the facts there, there was a second shooter, acoustic analysis proves it.

The majority of people don't want gun control, they want to see Hillary held accountable, they want to see our system of laws work, as it is people had been preparing for a revolution until Trump was elected, just look at gun sales and survival supplies, they were going full tilt with a long backorder before Trump won, people want to be free, not oppressed by a lawless ruling elite who would like to disarm the peasants, but the peasants know it.



Another thing, States have Constitutions as well, mostly based on our Bill of Rights, the problem has been lawlessness, New York's Cuomo and California's Jerry Brown have both violated their oath of office, in time it will be corrected, even though they are 2 of only 6 States that don't have State Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms provisions they are still bound by Federal law, and our Bill of Rights is the test by which all law must pass....well Constitutional muster.

In Georgia our Constitution reads : The Right of the Citizens to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, although the State Legislature may prescribe the manner in witch arms may be born.


SO....DO FEDERAL LAWS ALWAYS TRUMP STATE LAWS, OR ONLY WHEN IT SUITES THE STATE?

We have lost our way as per the chain of command, Barry with his refusal to enforce marijuana law established a precedent.
 
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