Florida Shooting

[BobMc]

@Alaskan, so true dollars and cents it’s all about. Sad to say.


@ Paul; The discussion was/is about who’s to blame the person or the gun. It was you that changed the subject. I was merely bringing forth that every form of someone killing someone is attributed to the person expect when it comes to gun violence.

Calling someone names is a sign of a weak argument.

 

[paul1598419]

Most people in auto accidents are blameless. That is why they call them accidents. Otherwise they would go to jail. Now, they can have some liability, but many people kill themselves in their accidents, but you don't call it suicide. So, by definition, your figures were wrong. There aren't anywhere near the deaths blamed on people who die in car accidents. That was, and is, my point.

 

[BobMc]

True that was/is your point. That was how you changed the subject. To deflect from the main thought of who’s to blame. The gun or the person.

 

[Alaskan]

Ultimately, that answer is clear.

 

[BobMc]

It’s simple, each person is responsible for their own behavior whether it’s good or bad. Each person owns there own.

 

[paul1598419]

True that was/is your point. That was how you changed the subject. To deflect from the main thought of who’s to blame. The gun or the person.

Guns were originally built to do one thing. Kill. You can't say that about cars, or knives or many of the other things you say people are to blame for. Guns are designed to kill. And in this country they do that with great certainty. Give that kid anything else, except a bomb, which is totally illegal, and 17 people would still be alive today. Getting the necessary chemicals to build a bomb would have been outside this kid's ability. So, when I say that guns kill......they do.

 

[BobMc]

Guns were originally built for protection.

 

[paul1598419]

What history have you been reading? Guns were designed and redesigned to kill. And they do it better than anything else one can lay his hands on. That NRA rubbish is just that. That is actually changing the subject. Guns kill game animals and people and that is what they have always been made to do. You don't send a soldier into battle with a knife, except as a last resort. No, guns have always been made to kill.

 

[BobMc]

Guess it’s if your an optimist or a pessimist. Guns were/are for defense. Killing is just a worse case scenario.

 

[paul1598419]

Trying to get the last word is never going to make you right. Gun powder was brought over from China centuries ago and the guns that followed were meant to kill. This "protection" garbage is NRA speak for guns are good. Check out how many gun deaths there are in the UK each year. It is less than a dozen. You take away guns and gun deaths go away. We live in the only first world country that has this problem. Guns as a means of "protection" was first actively pursued by the NRA. Before that, guns were meant to kill. Period.

 

[BobMc]

Guns are neither good or bad, it’s the person using them that makes them one or the other. They can be used for good proctecting someone from a evil person or in the hands of a wicked person they can cause evil. Curious you don’t see this?? :thinking: or do you??

 

[paul1598419]

You continue to ignore all my arguments and persist in spouting the NRA line. This does not make you right. Look at centuries of gun history and tell me they were never made to kill. It's laughable on its face. Good or bad is a judgement call. But, you know what isn't? Guns have always been made to kill. And in countries that have outlawed them, guns deaths have all but disappeared. Not in the USA, though. More gun deaths than any first world country, bar none. I'll bet there are more gun deaths here than every first world country combined.

 

[BobMc]

Whither I’m spouting the NRA line I can’t speak to. Just using a little common sense. Because it is true;

“Guns don’t kill people, people kill people”

And this is true whither you want to admit it or not.

Seems like this conversation is going no where, so I’m going bow out. Have a good evening.

 

[Encap]

OK let's see---In fall 2017, about 50.7 million students attended public elementary and secondary schools. Of these, 35.6 million will be in prekindergarten through grade 8 and 15.1 million will be in grades 9 through 12. An additional 5.2 million students are expected to attend private elementary and secondary schools.
That's 55.9 million enrolled in and going to school...... Since fall of 2017 number of people killed at school is 29---so how safe are school kids ---extremely safe---generally speaking

School shootings in USA The total number of school shootings to date (from 1764 to the 14th of February 2018--the last 254 years) is 460 incidents. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States

There are about 400 million guns in private hands in USA ---the trend is not going to change anytime soon -guns are selling at a record pace

Interesting factoid 60% of guns deaths in USA are from suicide not homicides or "shootings":
"When Americans think about deaths from guns, we tend to focus on homicides. But the problem of gun suicide is inescapable: More than 60 percent of people in this country who die from guns die by suicide.
Suicide gets a lot less attention than murders for a few reasons. One big one is that news organizations generally don’t cover suicides the way they do murders."
From: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot/gun-deaths-are-mostly-suicides.html

While a political hot potato, guns are a small time problem compared to major problems---example "Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the entire Vietnam War" see: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids-drug-overdose-killed-more-americans-last-year-than-the-vietnam-war/

Social priorities are what they are.

 

[RedCowboy]

Schools could be fortified to protect the students

Schools could have bullet proof doors that lock when any teachers panic button is pushed at their desk, there would be keypads so faculty could override a doors lock without fumbling with a key.

Most classrooms could have emergency exits that open from the inside only except with a fire/police key.

Every teacher should have a proper tazer and know how to use it.

Other less than lethal tools could be used as well to stop a shooter, we are at a point in our technology where we could have tazer drones mounted at the ceiling to keep students from messing with them, that could be given the shooters position and image wirelessly from the security office where they watch all the cameras, these little drones could zip in and taze the shooter, this would work well and could provide less than lethal security in many places with a security office, shopping malls, schools, banks, ect...

Many common sense improvements could be made.


As for a nightclub........ imagine if everyone rushed a shooter, yes some would get shot, but if people understood their chances were better if they stood together and fought at the 1st sign of trouble this would deter the cowards.

 

[Alaskan]

While a political hot potato, guns are a small time problem compared to major problems---example "Drug overdoses killed more Americans last year than the entire Vietnam War" see: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioids...e-vietnam-war/

Prescription drugs kill 100,000 a year in the USA due to medical professional mistakes. Just to make it clear it isn't the illicit drugs doing most of that, all of the illicits combined are 20k.