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FrozenGate by Avery

FAKE 150mW Nichia diodes being sold

IgorT said:
Did i really say that?

I will carefully go through EACH email and PM i wrote, to find WHERE i said it. And if i did, i'm gonna regret not talking to Steve before posting...


However, even if i did say that (and i don't remember it, while normally i remember things like that VERY WELL!), i waited for three or maybe even four weeks before posting ANYTHING. I should check how long ago it was, when i first sent him the test results, but it was a LONG TIME AGO!


The only reason i posted was, because DrLava made me feel guilty for not doing so sooner, when he asked me "Have you posted this info yet?" upon seeing the results...

At that moment, i realized:
1. That the diodes are still for sale and
2. that people still expect 8x or at least 6x-like results from them!


And i don't think ANYONE can disagree with the fact, that they don't deliver 8x nor even 6x-like results!

And since they were still being sold, i thought it would be wise to warn people not to buy them with false expectations.




If Steve and i really had such an agreement as you describe above, then i would also expect him to remove diodes from sale UNTIL HE HAD A CHANCE TO FIND OUT FROM THE SUPPLIER WHAT WAS UP (to put it your way)...


Now wouldn't that make MUCH more sense than just me waiting with posting the results?!? :thinking:

Or at least mentioning on the diode sale page, that there is a certain serious doubt regarding the thruthfulness of the specs of the diode, if not removing them completelly, until the matter was resolved?

I somehow expected the diodes to be removed from sale, until the matter was resolved, i don't know why.... Just like Steve expected me not to post the results for the same amount of time? Looks like we both had false expectations....

But i really need to check what / if anything we agreed on, other than that i would test the diodes, and later that i would help him proove to the supplier that the specs are not correct.




Thing is, i did not post this thread, to hurt Steve in ANY way!

I already told you - i like Steve! And i'm horribly sorry, if i offended him in any way...

I'd love to be able to buy good diodes from his store at any time (instead of having to deal with the lying Chinese always scaring me about stock running out, to make me buy more faster), and i'd love to cooperate with him in the future!


That's why i keep repeating, that STEVE IS OF NO FAULT HERE, and that HE WAS RIPPED OFF WORSE THAN ANY ONE OF US WHO BOUGHT THESE DIODES FROM HIM, simply for trying to do something good for everyone.

I also kept repeating, that PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT A DIODE WITHOUT WAITING FOR TESTING FIRST, SHOULDN'T BE COMPLAINING NOW, AS THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOW, THAT THEY WERE TAKING A RISK, AND BUYING THE DIODES FOR TESTING - that's what i bought them for!


From all of us, Steve took the greatest risk, when buying a whole stock of these diodes.... He lost WAY more money, than ANYONE who bought a diode (or three) from him, unless he gets his money back from the supplier, or real diodes in the end!


I was sad about losing my money, when i saw the test results, but i also felt bad for Steve! That's why I NEVER REQUESTED ANYTHING FROM HIM, at least until he could resolve the matter!


I will carefully check all my emails and PMs to Steve, to see what we agreed on..

But no matter what, i still believe, that it would not be right to have people buying these diodes expecting 8x or even just 6x-like results from them.




STEVE, If you are reading this: If i offended you in ANY way, i apologize!

Please understand, that this thread was at no time meant to be about YOU OR your store!

This thread was about you getting ripped off by a supplier!

And it was about warning people not to expect 8x or 6x-like results from these diodes , because clearly they did expect them, and clearly the diodes can't deliver them...


Later your supplier posted here, and the heading of this thread changed into your supplier getting ripped off by their supplier or manufacturer!


But at NO TIME was the thread about YOU doing anything wrong! It was always at least one and later even two steps away from that!



I sent you multiple emails with every graph and explanation i posted here, only in higher resolution (the originals, before resizing them for posting), every email i sent went to two of your email addresses simultaneously.

I hope that you got them! If you did, then PLEASE respond to one of them, so we can talk.


And if i really said i wouldn't post until you could resolve the matter (i'll check VERY CAREFULLY), then i have to apologize to you!

However in that case i don't understand why you would not have removed the diodes from sale for the same amount of time. If it wasn't for people telling me "you can now get 8x or 6x like diodes fresh from a tray", i would not have posted this thread!
Click to expand...

this is perfect
And It is why you should post it on LEF so you two can work things out!
Until you do post on LEF it looks like what I am saying is true.
 





pullbangdead said:
That's great and all, but NONE of those things are laser diodes. With laser diodes,



what's a "Bo Dine"? Sure, whatever machine that is can make 150,000 of (something?) per shift, but it takes multiple days to make a laser diode. They run in batches, of course, but each batch takes days to complete.



With injection molding, or shower heads, or a big batch of a chemical, or a food product, they all come out the same. You can test a few, because you know all the ones in the same batch will work equally well.




THAT'S NOT TRUE FOR LASER DIODES. Have you ever made a laser diode? You can have a wafer with 10 laser diodes in a row on it, and you have no



Now tell me, how can they bin chips according to performance, if they don't test each one to find out what its performance it? THEY CAN'T. They test every single one, and so do laser diode manufacturers. Low-power lasers go in readers, higher-power diodes go in burners, it's as simple as that.

With all due respect, plastic parts have amazingly high yields, but laser diodes and computer chips do not, it's a whole different world that really can't even be compared. You can make a few thousand plastic sprayer tips, and as long as some work, they'll all be the same. But laser diodes are an entirely different ballgame, and you must test every single one, or else you won't even know if it works at all.

And again, I did work in the fab (that's what they call the factory in the semiconductor industry) for a giant silicon IC manufacturer, I guarantee you have used their products in your lifetime, and they test every single chip before it goes out the door.



ETA: there are some typos, some pretty egregious, if you see one I'll fix it
Click to expand...

First Off I want to say You started to gain a little respect when you told me to Chill out. but you are starting to blow that.
Next no they are not Laser diodes But the mass production proses is not that different I have friends that work for Monsanto they make the wafers that are used in making IC chips. and they use Bo Dines to assemble the IC chips because the Bo Dine is capable of drilling a hole in a human hair and feeding a wire through it and then drilling another hole through both the hair and the wire and feeding another wire through them with out breaking the hair or the wire. it is a multistage robot that is computer controlled and its only draw back is that Man programs the computer It is capable of assembling any thing you may dream up.

No about the because you know all the ones in the same batch will work equally well
their a lot of variables Humidity, temps, the level of pure polystyrene to many to name, every day things are different. and I never said any thing about food products. (I want some of what you are smoking because it must be real good.)
No i have not but I would Love to see you make a To18 laser diode from scratch.
Can we agree that every thing has a science behind it?¿
They make different vats of each different part that is required usually they are out sources each Vat or Batch are labeled (I will make up some #) Batch #OOICU812 , lot #UB8UP :whistle: they usually order in amounts that should run out together but don't always do so when one runs out they change all to the next, and that's how they get the batch/Lot

one of the first thing they teach you in collage is if their is no reference for you to research that info is discarded or hold no value.

and if you really were that advanced in Laser Diodes Why did you not say any thing about the danger to a Laser Diode by running it with a CW driver in the PW Power range. the pulse wave is to allow the higher power out and still maintain its normal Life!!!!!!!!! A first year student would know that!
I see right through you! :rolleyes:
I bet you are going to college on Daddy's Money. :san: kids I swear
I am done for the last time with this post

Dugin if you are not going to test the MMD please send it all back please
 
FrostyTheDadMan said:
Dugin if you are not going to test the MMD please send it all back please
Click to expand...

It appears that you not only are "looking" for trouble herein, but that you are not reading the whole postings and/or are simply refusing to accept that voices, other than yours, have value. Neither position furthers learning or commerce.

In regard to me in particular, you apparently have no idea what has been nor is still happening in my life. Your driver has been less than a blip on my screen for the last few months. Your driver and parts are at home on my desk. I will be more than happy to return them to you when I return to my home at the end of the month.

Peace,
dave
 
daguin said:
It appears that you not only are "looking" for trouble herein, but that you are not reading the whole postings and/or are simply refusing to accept that voices, other than yours, have value. Neither position furthers learning or commerce.

In regard to me in particular, you apparently have no idea what has been nor is still happening in my life. Your driver has been less than a blip on my screen for the last few months. Your driver and parts are at home on my desk. I will be more than happy to return them to you when I return to my home at the end of the month.

Peace,
dave
Click to expand...

In regard to you.


Dave I do not know whats going on, I hope its nothing bad. I only wish great things for you my friend.
I heard you moved and got robbed, and when you had not posted anything on LEF I even said to High Octane If you needed a computer I would send you one of the three that I am not using. then I checked over here and noticed your activity and knew you did not need it.
other then that I am in the dark, I just assumed you preferred this forum,
You never returned my PMs, I did ask you a day or two ago if you were still in on it and I got no reply from you again. so what am I to think? I mean if what ever is in your life is that pressing don't worrier about the MMD. I have others that are willing and have the time, I must press on with my life as you must yours, I have no harsh feelings I hope you don't.
You didn't due some thing dumb and get in trouble with the law did you?¿ It doesn't matter What ever you need just ask and I will do my best to help you any way I can.

In regard to Igort
What, is he going to come and beat me up, I am so scared.
No All I want is for him to step up to the pump and be a man, by posting on LEF so High Octane and him can work things out in stead of hiding over here!
If a person has a problem talking to a group that the other person cannot talk to as well is PUNK!
Quote from Steve
Anyone!

He'll I can't even defend myself on that Fornicateing forum


IgorT is on my shit list, I don't mind him posting the info enev after he said he wouldn't, but to slam me like that is bullsht!
I see to many holes in his testing, one is the use of knees with a BluRay, it's not accurate!

I'm just pissed and dissapointed the way he handled this.
I'm still in the process of trying to work somthing out and even confirming his test results!
Sorry I live a busy life and can't allways get things done as fast as IgorT! End of Quote

Next Quote from Steve.
The only customer to complain did so due to the post at the LPF, he didn't come right out and state that fact until I asked him what made him think the diodes where underpowered, ONLY THEN did I get a straight answer of he did no testing.
End of Quote

A real Man will not hide and run his mouth and that's why Igort should post some place where Steve can post reply's.
 
I assumed things on purpose to show you all how Steve Felt
Its not a good feeling is it!!! so now maybe you all have learned some thing!!! I hope!
you assumed they were fake
I assumed you all were Fake
= the same feeling
Assuming is not a good thing
 
Why hasn't Steve-o just ask Av to let him back nicely?

Seems that were ever you go (not you personally) pride always gets in the way
exp. forum member Frothy chimp and others gone... gone... gone:(. There are others
just...well never mind.

I like Steve-o and I don't know Avery so I'll just say excuse my rambling sorry Igor for the off topic.
 
FrostyTheDadMan said:
First Off I want to say You started to gain a little respect when you told me to Chill out. but you are starting to blow that.

Next no they are not Laser diodes But the mass production proses is not that different I have friends that work for Monsanto they make the wafers that are used in making IC chips. and they use Bo Dines to assemble the IC chips because the Bo Dine is capable of drilling a hole in a human hair and feeding a wire through it and then drilling another hole through both the hair and the wire and feeding another wire through them with out breaking the hair or the wire. it is a multistage robot that is computer controlled and its only draw back is that Man programs the computer It is capable of assembling any thing you may dream up.

No about the because you know all the ones in the same batch will work equally well
their a lot of variables Humidity, temps, the level of pure polystyrene to many to name, every day things are different. and I never said any thing about food products. (I want some of what you are smoking because it must be real good.)
No i have not but I would Love to see you make a To18 laser diode from scratch.
Can we agree that every thing has a science behind it?¿
They make different vats of each different part that is required usually they are out sources each Vat or Batch are labeled (I will make up some #) Batch #OOICU812 , lot #UB8UP :whistle: they usually order in amounts that should run out together but don't always do so when one runs out they change all to the next, and that's how they get the batch/Lot

one of the first thing they teach you in collage is if their is no reference for you to research that info is discarded or hold no value.

and if you really were that advanced in Laser Diodes Why did you not say any thing about the danger to a Laser Diode by running it with a CW driver in the PW Power range. the pulse wave is to allow the higher power out and still maintain its normal Life!!!!!!!!! A first year student would know that!
I see right through you! :rolleyes:
I bet you are going to college on Daddy's Money. :san: kids I swear
I am done for the last time with this post
Click to expand...

Look, this all started off with your "they only test 10 out of 10,000" comment, which was patently false. How it progressed into all this, I'm not even exactly sure. But given where we are now,

Yes, I have made a laser diode from scratch. We use MOCVD tools to make a laser diode, literally from gases. When it starts out, it's several bottles of gases and a blank substrate. When we're done, it's a laser diode. Literally, a laser diode from scratch. You CLEARLY have no clue how a laser diode is actually made. Do you know what an MOCVD tool is? That's metal-organic chemical vapor deposition, it uses gases and chemical reactions to deposit extremely thin films on top of a substrate. I don't care how small a hole a Bo Dine can drill. You don't drill anything with a laser diode! You deposit individuals atoms, one at a time, on the substrate, growing the films from the bottom up. The layers that matter are just a few atoms thick, which is why it's so difficult to get every diode to work. Manufacturing laser diodes, LEDs, and even computer chips, are not the same as other manufacturing processes, because of the scale. Especially with laser diodes and LEDs, the active region/quantum wells are single-digit nanometers thick! Drill a hole in a hair? A hair is MASSIVE compared to what we're working with when making a laser diode, utterly huge.

Make a to18 laser diode from scratch? We make laser diodes from scratch every day! I know how to do it! The group I'm in does this every day. We grow from scratch, all the way through packaging, so don't pretend you have so much more experience than me. Everything DOES have a science behind it, and I don't think you know the science behind making laser diodes. I do. Seriously, stop by Santa Barbara, CA some time, and I'll show you exactly how laser diodes are made, from scratch, and then how we test every single one when it's done, because you don't know if it works or how well it works until you test it.

You mention making the substrates, and you mention mounting the chips after they're made. THOSE ARE THE EASY STEPS. I'm talking about in between, where the real magic happens. No robot can put individual atoms in place, one at a time, which is what happens when making a laser diode.

And I confused Mr. Bubble with a bubble gum product, my apologies for the "food product" comment, but indeed, it's not a food product.

And no, I have NEVER been taught that "if there's no reference, it's no good". In a Ph.D program, the entire point is making new knowledge. We're creating knowledge, we're making the references, everyday. We've done things in our group that have never been done before. I don't know what point you're trying to make there, but it's not true.

And you're right, I didn't say anything about running CW above the CW rating, but there's a VERY good reason for that, and you pointed it out yourself! "the pulse wave is to allow the higher power out and still maintain its normal Life": We don't need to maintain normal life! Spec sheets are written for 10,000 hours of life, or more. A laser pointer made on this forum never needs to last more than 100 hours! We don't NEED normal life! We don't NEED a laser to last 10,000 hours! It's very simple, the spec sheet says "run at xx current, and it will last 10,000 hours". What we're doing on this forum is "run at yy current, and it'll last 100 hours".

And since you bring it up, I didn't receive a single dollar in support from my parents to get through college. I 100% funded my college education from my own pocket and EARNED scholarships. And now in grad school, since I'm a good student in an arena that is well funded (laser diodes are popular, companies pay for our research), the school is paying ME to come take classes and do research. THEY are paying ME to do my Ph.D research here. Again, I didn't bring up anything about education level. But once you did, I felt kind of obligated.



ETA: I shouldn't be rude, but it irks me to end...I edited out some of the ruder comments because I felt bad.
 
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Wow, and I thought working in a government environment was bad... lol. I'm not sure what happened here but I hope it doesn't happen again.

Common guys, let's get back to building, testing, experimenting, and sharing our experiences in a friendly manner.

Happy lasing!!!
 
and people wonder why photonlexicon is growing... other than the tist, I've learned alot... thanx pull! and the other line contributers.
 
pullbangdead said:
I don't quite understand what you're saying. :thinking:
Click to expand...
To clear that up... I meant that I learned alot from behind the scenes at the chip factory.

The photonlexicon stab was meant for the hard time the other poster was giving you...:) does that make more sense?
 
jander6442 said:
To clear that up... I meant that I learned alot from behind the scenes at the chip factory.

The photonlexicon stab was meant for the hard time the other poster was giving you...:) does that make more sense?
Click to expand...

Perfectly clear now, thanks. :beer:
 
I spotted another fake today here:

http://www.can-xing.com/productsview.asp?id=674&Lsort=-75-&str=Blu-ray laser

These people are selling GGWH20L sleds for $26. I was about to purchase them all then further examined the picture, notice the finned heat sink is on the side of the sled. This is a GGW-H10N 4x blu ray sled. The GGW-H20L 6x sleds have the finned heat sink on top of the sled.

just thought I'd let y'all know.

thanks,
Kendall
 
That picture looks like it has the finned heatsink there!

Whether or not you end up with the sleds pictured, is to be seen, but it looks like they got the right picture...
Jay

Edit: You are correct... I was wrong about that, I glanced at the picture and thought that the two little 'fins' at the upper left of the sled were the extra heatsink, but they are just part of the sled.
 
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jayrob said:
That picture looks like it has the finned heatsink there!
Whether or not you end up with the sleds pictured, is to be seen, but it looks like they got the right picture...
Jay
Click to expand...

I don't see it, Jay. Also, it is very hard to see it from this side of the sled. We need to see it flipped over to know.

Peace,
dave
 
Your right Dave... I glanced at the picture and thought that the two little 'fins' at the upper left of the sled were the extra heatsink, but I just pulled out one of my GGW sleds to look at it and I stand corrected...

Sorry about that Kendall, good eye!
Jay
 
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