The time has come for $250 Direct green diodes

[Mohrenberg]

I contacted Laser66 last week about prices. Just wingin it here, I expected to be shut down with a 4 digit price. However, at 11:08am this morning, I received a very wonderful email from Will:

"Sean:

We are primarily shipping the <515nm devices. There have been production delays, but we are expecting to restock next week. The above devices are $250 with a value added feature added for sale: lens/ housing, and / or driver.
With production yields increasing, with higher wavelengths dominating, there is a shift towards higher wavelength devices. Prior to this, the > 515nm devices were nearly 5X the cost of the other parts. This is obviously changing for the better with lower costs for the highly desirable wavelengths.

I'd like to discuss your situation over the phone, so we understand your needs. Can you include your telephone number?

Will Roberts, Owner"

We discussed things further, and after exchanging a few emails, I found out he is apparently getting a shipment next week of these <515nm diodes, and they will in fact be for sale for $250 Now that price is no big deal for those avid wavelength hunters. As it is we pay 2-4 times that for high end 473 and 589/593, and for some "50mW single mode diode that will make nice beams" that is AMAZING. So, get your PMs and emails sent (sorry Will :na Also, I was given full permission to post this (I figured it might cause some issues if prices weren't final or something) but he did give permission to post this. So good luck with your 50mW direct green builds folks! I can't wait to start mine in a few months

Call me crazy, but i'm not really into paying $250 for 50mW of green. I realize that these are coming in diode form, but still.
I'm just waiting for these to pick up and get better in terms of output capability. Hopefully we'll find a diode array in a projector one day that has a large batch of green diodes....

just out of curiosity, are we expecting to get up to 50mW, or are they rated for 50mW CW?
I can definitely see the appeal for a green diode, as it's SOOO much more stable and reliable than DPSS. The idea is growing on me...

 

[RA_pierce]

Call me crazy, but i'm not really into paying $250 for 50mW of green. I realize that these are coming in diode form, but still.
I'm just waiting for these to pick up and get better in terms of output capability. Hopefully we'll find a diode array in a projector one day that has a large batch of green diodes....

just out of curiosity, are we expecting to get up to 50mW, or are they rated for 50mW CW?
I can definitely see the appeal for a green diode, as it's SOOO much more stable and reliable than DPSS. The idea is growing on me...

I'm with you.
$250 can get you a reasonably stable >100mW DPSS laser. Sure it doesn't have the "unique" factor but I don't think it will be long before green diodes are relatively common as well.

I wouldn't count on seeing these in batches in projectors.
Remember that the reason so many blue diodes are needed in a projector is because they need to excite the phosphor wheel. The blue laser light is not directly used for the projector's output.
It would make more sense for this technology to find commercial application in small laser projectors like the PicoP which requires only one diode or in large projectors/televisions using a large diode array rather than a bunch of tiny ones.

 

[Blord]

We are talking about <515nm green. If it was 532nm direct diode green the price is crazy but 515nm is something else. It is very an unique color and for the wavelength collectors it is a must have color.

 

[tsteele93]

I'm with you.
$250 can get you a reasonably stable >100mW DPSS laser. Sure it doesn't have the "unique" factor but I don't think it will be long before green diodes are relatively common as well.

I wouldn't count on seeing these in batches in projectors.
Remember that the reason so many blue diodes are needed in a projector is because they need to excite the phosphor wheel. The blue laser light is not directly used for the projector's output.
It would make more sense for this technology to find commercial application in small laser projectors like the PicoP which requires only one diode or in large projectors/televisions using a large diode array rather than a bunch of tiny ones.

I wonder if these could eventually spell the death of higher power 445's? With the perceived brightness of green, couldn't they do away with the phosphor wheel altogether if they can turn up the green diodes to a few hundred mW in the not so distant future?

Or is that not a good way to go about projector design?

 

[rhd]

I wouldn't count on seeing these in batches in projectors.
Remember that the reason so many blue diodes are needed in a projector is because they need to excite the phosphor wheel. The blue laser light is not directly used for the projector's output.
It would make more sense for this technology to find commercial application in small laser projectors like the PicoP which requires only one diode or in large projectors/televisions using a large diode array rather than a bunch of tiny ones.

That's not *really* true. It is the case that in one particular model (the H-series), we've seen them go to blue LEDs for the blue channel. But in every single model of projector save for that one, the blue laser diodes give you the projector's blue output.

Further, while you could say that the H-series is the top of the line, and maybe this move signals the future direction for projectors, evidence is against that theory too. There are at least three other projector lines on the horizon, from manufacturers other than KasEO, that are using the "massive array of blue laser diodes" approach. One of those three lines actually has projectors on the shelves right now (but at $2k, nobody is harvesting them), and supposedly they're producing all three colour channels from an array of 24 blue laser diodes. I don't know how they're getting red, perhaps a red phosphor disk.

At any rate, there are major benefits to sticking with laser emitters. I don't think we're moving away from that approach. If anything, there are now 4 manufacturers playing in the (non-pico) laser projector game, instead of just KasEO.

 

[RA_pierce]

That's not *really* true. It is the case that in one particular model (the H-series), we've seen them go to blue LEDs for the blue channel. But in every single model of projector save for that one, the blue laser diodes give you the projector's blue output.

Further, while you could say that the H-series is the top of the line, and maybe this move signals the future direction for projectors, evidence is against that theory too. There are at least three other projector lines on the horizon, from manufacturers other than KasEO, that are using the "massive array of blue laser diodes" approach. One of those three lines actually has projectors on the shelves right now (but at $2k, nobody is harvesting them), and supposedly they're producing all three colour channels from an array of 24 blue laser diodes. I don't know how they're getting red, perhaps a red phosphor disk.

At any rate, there are major benefits to sticking with laser emitters. I don't think we're moving away from that approach. If anything, there are now 4 manufacturers playing in the (non-pico) laser projector game, instead of just KasEO.

Ah... see I don't really spend much time on the forum anymore especially in the blue lasers section. I saw the breakdown of the H series projector and forgot that the A130 and A140 we originally "harvested" from only have a red LED.
I'm not sure where your info comes from but I don't doubt that the future of most display technology will eventually be solid state laser based (of course I don't know). To be clear, my doubt is about the practicality of a large quantity of small diodes vs. a single diode array in a package like these, for example: Coherent Inc. Diode Laser,High Power Laser Diodes,Diode Laser Stac

I'm surprised that the current laser DLP projectors are still using the big clunky multi-diode arrays. Either cost of manufacturing a new diode package type with multiple emitters is too great or the technology is still too young - although I don't see why especially since there were a few articles posted here (somewhere) boasting ~4W output from a single diode (obviously multi-emitter)... If I'm not mistaken.
In the instance of a high output projector, It just doesn't really make sense to use an array of 24/36 individual diodes vs. a few diodes with very high output. EDIT: maybe the optical quality is better with the multi-diode arrays?

But this is just speculation and doesn't matter anyway. I just wouldn't get my hopes up until we start actually seeing these diodes forreals. As far as I'm concerned they are still vapor-ware. I would guess that green diodes will show up in products before we see them sold as individuals - but who knows?
/cynicism

 

[rhd]

To be clear, my doubt is about the practicality of a large quantity of small diodes vs. a single diode array in a package like these, for example: Coherent Inc. Diode Laser,High Power Laser Diodes,Diode Laser Stac

Actually, I completely agree. I have a few paragraphs written about that transition, but deleted them before posting - thought that would be too far off track.

But yes, complete agreement from me on that point. I don't doubt that the endgame is ultimately for Nichia (or whomever) to mount a number of emitters on a custom package, designed either specifically for, or at least with projector form factors in mind. Right now, the "small diodes" approach is useful for spreading heat. As efficiency gets higher, and as more laser-based projectors enter the market, the custom emitter array approach makes more sense.

That's the intention behind Mitsubishi's 8W array. Other companies are working on high output red arrays also. It's generally preferable to have 1 part instead of 24, so to that extent, I think you're right. If lasers stick around in projectors, it's just a matter of time before they stop being easily accessible single emitter packages.

 

[MrMcChicken]

Great news! thats a great diode

 

[Hiemal]

Might be a great diode but it doesn't matter if it's still vaporware...

I mean hell anyone can go around saying "hey I have a fancy wavelength diode" and then quote some prices and maybe a picture but that doesn't prove anything, nor does it achieve anything if the diodes aren't even going to be sold to the common hobbyist.

 

[DJNY]

If anyone is able to offer me this diode for the $250, please PM me

 

[tsteele93]

Actually, I completely agree. I have a few paragraphs written about that transition, but deleted them before posting - thought that would be too far off track.

But yes, complete agreement from me on that point. I don't doubt that the endgame is ultimately for Nichia (or whomever) to mount a number of emitters on a custom package, designed either specifically for, or at least with projector form factors in mind. Right now, the "small diodes" approach is useful for spreading heat. As efficiency gets higher, and as more laser-based projectors enter the market, the custom emitter array approach makes more sense.

That's the intention behind Mitsubishi's 8W array. Other companies are working on high output red arrays also. It's generally preferable to have 1 part instead of 24, so to that extent, I think you're right. If lasers stick around in projectors, it's just a matter of time before they stop being easily accessible single emitter packages.

One thing to consider, I have seen stories of people removing a blue led or two or three from a projector and they felt that it still functioned well. So you do have some redundancy if one fails and they average consumer might lose a diode or two over the life of the projector and never know - and as a result, never return the product.

A failure of a single component that renders the projector crippled or useless might not be as financlially sound.

Just a thought...

 

[RA_pierce]

One thing to consider, I have seen stories of people removing a blue led or two or three from a projector and they felt that it still functioned well. So you do have some redundancy if one fails and they average consumer might lose a diode or two over the life of the projector and never know - and as a result, never return the product.

A failure of a single component that renders the projector crippled or useless might not be as financlially sound.

Just a thought...

That is a good point.
Only time will tell... for now it seems these diodes are still not ready.

 

[bloompyle]

That is a good point.
Only time will tell... for now it seems these diodes are still not ready.

I get the same feeling :/ I was hoping at least a couple members would be able to grab one :/

Did anyone try to make contact during that "next week" timeframe when they were supposedly coming back in stock?

 

[The Baron]

Anything new?