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FrozenGate by Avery

Strange Things About Blu-Ray (405nm)

daguin said:
As I was writing a note to someone who bought a laser from me, I realized that I was "teaching" him about the eccentricities of 405nm laser light.  I thought that it would be a good thing to collect these thoughts here.  I will start.  Please add your knowledge to this

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1) It is not blue.  It is violet.  The misunderstanding comes from the "marketing" name Blu-Ray.  This name was developed by the manufacturer to help the sale of the new technology.  The light is NOT blue.  Blue would be around 473nm.  The light is violet (405nm).  The light may seem to change colors because it causes many things to fluoresce.  That fluorescence may be different colors, but the laser light is violet

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2) High powered blu-ray lasers require a limited duty cycle.  150mA is NOT too much current for the PHR-803T diode.  For every one that you read about failing, there are 20 that are doing fine.  Plus, one must be aware how much efficient and fast harvesting can effect these diodes.   Also, how long was the failed diode burned for?  If you run them for 20 minutes at a time, they will fail.  It continues to amaze me that people that would never think of running their red laser for more than 2 minutes before allowing it to cool down, think that they can run a blu-ray for 20 minutes at a time, several times a night!  Then they get angry that the diode was "weak" or that the builder must have messed it up.

When you read about somebody's red laser (with a long open can), that is running at 420mA burning out, do you hear anyone crying, "We should run these diodes at no more than 380mA?"  No.  People accept that sometimes diodes just fail or that the operator probably did something to kill it.  Why do people think that the 405nm diodes are somehow "magic" enough that they should never fail? [/rant]

Harvest the diode without excessive heat or impact.  Heat sink it well.  Make very fast solder connections.  Limit your burns to under 2 minutes (I limit mine to under one minute).  Using these guidelines I have had one blu-ray running at 190mA, with several burns a night, for over three months and one running at 200mA for over two weeks now.  Will they fail?  Eventually they probably will.  When they do, I will have to replace them.  Just like we do with red diodes.

If you want your diode to "live forever" then run it at 110mA (although even that is not a guarantee that the diode won't fail).  However, there is a significant difference in the beam of one at 110mA and one run at 150mA.  You decide what you want.    Conservative use means longer use ;)

If you turn it on for a very short time (short 5-10 second burns), then you do not need to wait (unless you do several short burns in rapid sequence).  There is a lot of metal in these builds.  They can dissipate quite a bit of heat.  If they begin to feel warm (not hot) in your hand, you have taken them to the limit.  Feeling "heat" does not mean that they have started to degrade.  It just means that you have reached the limit of the host's ability to draw heat away from the diode.  Heat is drawn very quickly and efficiently from the diode into the host.  It is NOT transferred very quickly or efficiently from the host into the air.  Hence it takes longer to cool down than it took to heat up.  Smaller, lighter, hosts (like Leadlights or pen lasers) require shorter duty cycles than more massive, heavier hosts

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3)  Higher currents require higher voltage.  At currents under 110mA the 803T diode needs about 5V.  As the current is increased they require more voltage.  The diode MAY require over 6V at higher (over 180mA) currents.  When figuring the needed voltage to run the diode, don't forget that the driver requires voltage as well.  If your driver needs 2.2 volts and the diode needs 6 volts, you MUST have a minimum of 8.2 volts coming from the power source, to run the diode effectively.  They will also require significantly more heat sinking and shorter duty cycles, at these currents.

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4)  The laser MUST be focused.  It is an absolute requirement with diode type lasers that the beam be focussed.  All light diverges.  We can limit that divergence with laser light, but it still diverges.  For looking at the beams and spots as far away as possible, you will want to focus to "infinity."  Realistically what that means is that you want to focus it to as small a dot as you can as far away from you as you can and then leave it there.  Unfortunately, that leaves the "close-up" spot very large and out of focus.  If you want to "burn" things with it up close, you will leave the beam very out of focus just a few feet away.

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5)  The eye has trouble seeing 405nm light.  405nm is "Near Ultra Violet" light.  Blu-ray lasers are at the very edge of our eye's ability to see.  Older people have more trouble and glasses with UV coatings filter it.  Your eyes will get tired quickly when you first start using the blu-ray and the beam and dot may look "strange" to you.  If you have read about IgorT's experiences you will have a better understanding.

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6)  The laser "looks" dimmer than you thought it would.  The beam and dot may appear to you to be very low powered -- until you hit something fluorescent with it!!!!  I use a little 11mW blu-ray in lecture.  When the dot is on the wall, you can barely see it.  However, as soon as the dot hits the projector screen (white) it "seems" to jump exponentially in power.  If you first shine it on your wall, it may appear to be "broken."  However, shine it at a white shirt that has had "fabric softener" used on it.  The whole room will light up!  One of the cool things to do with the 405nm is to shine it on rocks, plants, and insects to see the different fluorescent colors out there.  This activity is when most people "burn up" their blu-rays.  It is very easy to lose track of time when one is "searching out" glowing things ;)

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7)  The beam will look "large" (especially outside).  Some people have described the beam as "as wide as a baseball bat."  This is simply an illusion caused by the eye's inability to focus on the beam AND the light being scattered in the air.

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8)  The dot looks like it has "stuff" all around it.  This caused by the same processes as described above.  Also, these diodes have some "artifacts" surrounding the beam.

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9)  The beam isn't "round."  When looking at the unfocused beam, the spot will appear "flat", elongated, or oval.  This is normal.  The shape of the beam is an artifact of the construction of the crystal and the diode.  When you focus the beam the small dot will be a pinpoint.

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10)  It doesn't look "dangerous."  Since it appears dim, people are lulled into a false sense of safety.  Your laser is probably putting out over 100mW of light!  No matter how "dim" it looks (when shining on a non-fluorescent surface), it is bright enough to blind a person or animal!!!  Use caution with it.  Be mindful of shiny, smooth surfaces especially when using the laser inside.  Specular reflections are just as dangerous as a direct hit.  If you are going to use the laser in an enclosed space or surrounded by reflective surfaces, use eye protection.  If you are going to "burn" things, use eye protection.  Educate anyone around you about the danger that the light poses.  They will NOT have read this warning.



Peace,
dave

Could I (or you) put this on the wiki please?
 





happytomato said:
Could I (or you) put this on the wiki please?

Sure.

I still consider it a "work in progress." I guess I'll have to drop by from time-to-time to make sure it stays up to date and correct, eh?

Peace,
dave
 
yeah that may be a good idea lol

if i ever see or think of anything that could be added i'll shoot you a line and remind ya to update it
 
nice list!
I hope I can build one soon.

I feel spoiled having a dilda that I can focus all the time.
maybe someone needs to make a thin knob to focus the lens on the end of an aixiz module...
 
A lot of the modules have focusing rings i think. Im actually a little confused about this. the one i ordered didnt come with one. do you have to order them seperately or something?
 
sad_sagi said:
nice list!
I hope I can build one soon.

I feel spoiled having a dilda that I can focus all the time.
maybe someone needs to make a thin knob to focus the lens on the end of an aixiz module...

umm you can focus aixiz modules just fine it does have a focusing ring.

:o
 
thesk8nmidget said:
umm you can focus aixiz modules just fine it does have a focusing ring. :o


You can also focus them without a focus ring. Sometimes the lens get too far deep in the module to use a focus ring anyway. I just use one fingernail in one grove on the top of the lens nut to focus them when they need to go deep.

We have also discovered that the diode must be set BELOW the surface of the AixiZ module. When it is set all the way in, the lens doesn't have to be so deep in the module to get it focused up close.

Peace,
dave

[highlight]**EDIT** [/highlight] If you REALLY want a focus ring, PM me. I have a crapload of them ;)
 
Hey Dave Great FYI you have written! I copied and sent it to a friend who is a new blu-ray owner/ user even though he has years of experience with the green and red lasers. (of course I gave you credit for it!) Thanks for putting so much good information in a single post!
 
daguin said:
[quote author=jamilm9 link=1219161671/0#14 date=1219339530]ok so i could just connect it to a lava drive and adjust the pot [highlight]until brightest.[/highlight]

That would be very dangerous for the life of your diode. Use a dummy load. Set the current before you hook up the diode. Short the cap. Hook up the diode.

Peace,
dave[/quote]
why would it be dangerous.it only goes from 30 to 110ma if i don't solder the the pad together.
 
jamilm9 said:
[quote author=daguin link=1219161671/0#15 date=1219339887][quote author=jamilm9 link=1219161671/0#14 date=1219339530]ok so i could just connect it to a lava drive and adjust the pot [highlight]until brightest.[/highlight]

That would be very dangerous for the life of your diode. Use a dummy load. Set the current before you hook up the diode. Short the cap. Hook up the diode.

Peace,
dave[/quote]
why would it be dangerous.it only goes from 30 to 110ma if i don't solder the the pad together.[/quote]

Nothing is perfect. What if your particular driver has as problem? What if it peaks higher than you thought? What if you "slip" while turning the pot and short something out? What if it doesn't "look" bright enough, and you keep turning, and you screw up the pot? In addition, you will have no idea what your laser is putting out or what you are actually putting in. Those last two questions may haunt you for a long time.

Peace,
dave
 
jamilm9 said:
why would it be dangerous.it only goes from 30 to 110ma if i don't solder the the pad together.

Unlike a green, it will always be brightest at the highest current. What's the big deal about using a dummy load? Diodes cost pennies, or you can get a prebuilt dummy load with instructions, a current measuring shunt, and automatic capacitor discharge function from rkcstr. You can also use a LED you take from a host, or the right value resistor (check Lava's thread).

Pots are messy! Especially tiny pots! When you touch them, the current jumps around, when you turn them, the current jumps around the actual setting, when you remove the screwdriver, the current will change, because you remove the pressure on it. There is also an area, where it doesn't do anything. Also, resistors have tolerances, so the max current will vary from one driver to another.

The jumping up and down can be bad for your diode. And you can ALWAYS slip up with the screwdriver, and short something, and zap your diode.


Besides, like Dave said, you really might want to know what your current is. At ~110mA which is the max low range setting, you can expect 90mW +-15mW from your diode, depending on the efficiency.




Dave: Amazing writeup! :)
 
See an eye said:
A lot of the modules have focusing rings i think. Im actually a little confused about this. the one i ordered didnt come with one. do you have to order them seperately or something?

When i ordered six modules from AixiZ for the first time, they all came without focusing rings..

DX modules always come with different rings, and latelly, they are all glued in place, not allowing the lens in deep enough for blu rays! I'm ordering focused line modules, just to make sure i can remove the ring, and mount it in a way that i can get the lens in deep enough.


Another benefit from this is the fact, that the diffraction grating protects the lens below from dust.. The modules are not stored well, so the usual ones almost always come with dust on the lens, that is near impossible to remove completelly.
 
Great post dave!

I was thinking of running my Sonar blu-ray at 100ma, or maybe even 120ma. But I think I may go straight to 150ma! I'm very careful about duty cycles, so according to you that should be just fine ;)
 
daguin said:
5) The eye has trouble seeing 405nm light. 405nm is "Near Ultra Violet" light. Blu-ray lasers are at the very edge of our eye's ability to see. Older people have more trouble and glasses with UV coatings filter it. Your eyes will get tired quickly when you first start using the blu-ray and the beam and dot may look "strange" to you. If you have read about IgorT's experiences you will have a better understanding.

IgorT has 2239 posts. Anyone know which posts Dave is talking about?
 
Foobario said:
[quote author=daguin link=1219161671/0#0 date=1219161671]5) The eye has trouble seeing 405nm light. 405nm is "Near Ultra Violet" light. Blu-ray lasers are at the very edge of our eye's ability to see. Older people have more trouble and glasses with UV coatings filter it. Your eyes will get tired quickly when you first start using the blu-ray and the beam and dot may look "strange" to you. If you have read about IgorT's experiences you will have a better understanding.

IgorT has 2239 posts. Anyone know which posts Dave is talking about?[/quote]


Sorry. It isn't just one post or I would have just copied it herein. IgorT talks about seeing multiple beams, ghost beams, different colors, fat beams, even beams in his sleep !

Peace,
dave
 





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