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FrozenGate by Avery

Long Range Lasers

DontLazeMeBro:

Before you invest any more time into this endeavor, do yourself a favor. Do a case study on this laser pointer and learn all you can about it. That laser pointer host has a lot of history behind it, not all of it positive.

I think the BIC pen analogy is actually pretty close here. A BIC pen is a cheap, disposable pen that people don't expect much from. If it starts to leak, so what. Get a new BIC pen. Furthermore, can you dress a BIC pen to the point that people will believe it is worth paying a premium for?

Learn why I might have chosen that pen analogy.

Also do some research into whether you're selling a product people actually want. Is there an actual niche market for $20 warrantied lasers in common hosts that are certified to low powers? If there is, is it a general market, worth setting up a public website for, or a limited market that you should have direct sales with? There's no such market here on this site.

As for goggles, they probably won't matter if your lasers truly are eye-safe. But they're not. So get some goggles so at least you won't go blind before you figure all this out. To that point: you ought to pull your site and your ad until you do have some certifiably eye-safe lasers or else you're just diluting your credibility as it stands.
 





What to do next:
Definitely research your market, thoroughly.

Possibly build a laser for yourself from parts, you'll (probably) gain a greater appreciation for what goes into a laser, and if your building it for yourself what people want in a laser. Do you want something plastic or something you could run over with a truck (but would never want to :) )


Also, are your lasers really any longer range than others? The title may be misleading if they aren't.

Edit: I actually just happen to be :pop: right now ;)
 
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How about people that actually have a clue about what "quality" really means?
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Think about your customers: they're a bunch of astronomy nuts who go out and look at stars, star-point for maybe 10 seconds at a time and then go home. Why would anyone take their evaluations of "quality" at face value? Do they even know what "quality" means, or put their products through any kind of meaningful tests to provide a useful evaluation?

Most of our customers have been around laser pointers their entire lives and although they may not be experts, they know a quality laser from a poor quality laser.
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By what means? That it turns on? That the beam looks bright? Those are flimsy, pointless metrics.

Furthermore, these are the kind of people who would buy any laser pointer and consider it "good quality." They don't know better.
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Clearly, Bionic Badger may have no clue what astronomy enthousiasm is all about. Being clueless however can not be a reason to burn and offend a multi million people community worldwide who very well DO know what a quality laser is to their purposes.

It should be better that Bionic Badger informs himself, instead of just making noise and ridiculise other people just because they find value in a hobby he doesn't know a thing about.

And IF quality is such an overwhelmingly big issue to Bionic Badger, then why doesn't he just say what quality means from his point of view? I mean, this thread is full of shouting aloud about quality this and quality that, but not a single word about what laser quality REALLY is.

Missed opportunity...
 
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DontLazeMeBro,

I know you're trying hard to come into a market that you have not much experience in, and I hope you are reading everything you can because this forum has a long history of laser enthusiasts discussions, arguments, and general posts.

You mentioned that this is the first time you've joined such a forum board, so I must let you know, as with any club or community that you join, there will be a certain culture, unwritten rules, and general etiquette (thankfully etiquette has actually been explicitly put in one post: here), as well as certain quirks from the members. I understand that you may be trying to rush to build up your business (who wouldn't?), but you'll have to also find a way to fit in to the community if you wish to gain anything out of it. This might take you some time (depending on how many posts you read per day, reading more will give you a feel on how this community operates).

As for your lasers, what BionicBadger is saying (I'll try to make it really really clear without any analogy), is that no one will pay that much for a laser that is unchecked, untested, on a constant basis by another party (other than the manufacturer), when they could get a few cheap ones and throw them away if they fail, and still spend less overall. What's more, they could get high powered ones, which might be delightful to them.

Understand that the market for low powered lasers is soooo saturated, you could get them cheaply from practically any site you turn to. Product differentiation will be the key! But if you can't guarantee that with some figures, tests, and results, no one will take you seriously. Chinese companies also promote their lasers the same way, many going to outright lies (like 10,000mW lasers). So essentially Talk is Cheap. Get some concrete evidence to back them up.

It won't hurt to study some of the other laser companies that are selling pointers. Companies that have great reputation, like Nova Lasers, and companies that have bad reputation, like Wicked Lasers, will teach you what the general market likes, expects, etc. While they may not apply directly to you, you definitely will be able to draw some tips out of them. There's a list of companies by reputation in this forum somewhere (do a search), and that should be able to get you started.

Also, please note that you're on an enthusiasts' forum. As enthusiasts, we are interested in products that push the boundaries of our technology within what our budgets can take. We can offer some advice regarding the mass market, but ultimately, we're not the actual mass market you're looking for, so we will definitely come from a different point of view, and higher expectations. No doubt, if you can get the "quality" we're talking about, you'll definitely meet the quality of an ordinary consumer.

Lastly, like it has been suggested, if you want to have a greater understanding of what handheld lasers are like, behave, the quirks and etc, try putting one together yourself. It will certainly open up an entire world you never knew existed, and you will look at lasers differently compared to before.
 
That's what I was trying to say, just better :beer:
thanks for the help with your masterfull wordery ;)
 
I would try to build this kit maybe :)
http://laserpointerforums.com/f64/fs-new-pen-host-kits-switch-board-spring-option-nice-22561.html

Edit: If you bought the components yourself (from anywhere) and built these by hand, I would buy one...

Edit2: Using the search function or Google, you can find several items to build your own lasers.

Edit3: I have found the same looking laser pens your selling, LPM'd, for less than $20. Those were way over spec from 54mw-120mw. They still all work well. You just have to find out what extra step you can take, to make your product worth it...
 
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To the general public as a market, an LPM laser in the higher range may be worth the $20... Here, not so much, theirs somewhat of a surplus here. Of the pens and knowledge.
 
@ the OP
to delete or combine- you need to click 'go advance' you will also need to click- 'delete this post two more times. the click edit in your other post and paste together both
Thread titles can on be changed by using 'go advance' same for having access to all the smilies-
an intro thread is not requried but is just good manners- kinda like coming to a bi party and heading to the open bar and food w/o first meeting and thanking the party's host.
be sure that whenever you want to start a new thread that you have choosen the proper section- if you are not sure then search the topic- see the threads and posts of others then look at the top to see which section that they used. or just PM any mod and ask where to place your thread..

If you scroll up to =the top right now you will see this beneath the banner ad:

Laser Pointer Forums - Laser Pointers and Laser Pointer info > Lasers > Green Lasers

as you see the last one is 'green lasers' that is the board/forum/section we are in right now- your thread about your 'store' should have been placed in the 'companies' section.
iirc..

some topics don't seem to have a perfect board to place then in- but a search or PM will lead you to the right board.
NEVER post something about items you want to sell in another members FS thread-
thats considered to be thread jacking and is a faux pas at the least- also try not to de-rail or go off topic in a thread- check the date of the last post to avoid 'necro-posting'

AND as you say this is your first forum we have a very complete video on that subject-

I could place a link to that for you but as you appears you need practice with the search function.. you will need to go find that on your own- if a search faills to help you-more often than not you just need to change the search terms.

BTW you may ant to ask a mod how to change your user name- to see if it is already in use ( or one VERY close0 go to the top and clicl 'community' then 'member list'. choose a username you will be comfy with for the long haul. choosing one that starts with the word 'laser' may not be a wise choice as there are hundreds already doing that--
you should fill out your personal profile completely.

v/r hak
 
svdr said:
Clearly, Bionic Badger may have no clue what astronomy enthousiasm is all about. Being clueless however can not be a reason to burn and offend a multi million people community worldwide who very well DO know what a quality laser is to their purposes.
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Actually you're just validating my point: they only know what a "quality laser" is for their purposes. That is to say the only "expertise" they have on this matter is in the context of astronomy (e.g. star-pointing). After all, if they're buying some NewWish laser pointer--for $20 no less--that can be found virtually anywhere, with no verifiable metrics of quality, they obviously don't know what "quality" they should seek out.

Hell, it may not even matter the level of "quality" that is being pushed by DLMB: for their applications, it may not make any difference. If the laser turns on and can be seen, that's probably good enough. They're Newwish pointers after all, with nothing special about them that would make them good for astronomy purposes. In that case, they're overpaying, which means they're pretty clueless about what they're buying.

It should be better that Bionic Badger informs himself, instead of just making noise and ridiculise other people just because they find value in a hobby he doesn't know a thing about.
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Reading comprehension. DO YOU KNOW IT? Nothing was said, or implied, ridiculing astronomy enthusiasts about their hobby. I said that they have little expertise, as astronomy enthusiasts, as to the quality of a laser.

And IF quality is such an overwhelmingly big issue to Bionic Badger, then why doesn't he just say what quality means from his point of view? I mean, this thread is full of shouting aloud about quality this and quality that, but not a single word about what laser quality REALLY is.
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Quality and reliability on a 5mW pointer? There's nothing really to be said except to show that those statements are true compared to the competition which is assumed to not have those qualities.

The overwhelming issue for me, that I have already stated, is the claim of quality and reliability that isn't supported, especially when compared to other laser pointers. Where's the data? Where's the proof? Where's the information convincing the customer that these ordinary NewWish-style laser pointers selling for $20 are any more reliable or quality than the $5 ones I can get on Amazon.com? He doesn't even have a meter to show that his lasers are actually the "eyesafe" 5mW he claims is one of his main selling points. These issues undermine the credibility of all his claims, so why spend $20 for one of his pointers compared to some other?

I want to see some credibility. I want to see those claims of "quality" and "reliability" qualified by proof and data.
 
Bionic Badger: "Nothing was said, or implied, ridiculing astronomy enthusiasts about their hobby" False, I believe the term you used was "astronomy nuts." If you could please leave this thread it would be appreciated, you seem to be doing more harm than good here. Although I did get some good information from you, you are causing a lot of arguing with your condescending tone, it really takes away from the learning and progression for our company as well as other users.

As for the rest of you I really appreciate the feedback I really can't thank you enough! I will refer to this thread for the next few weeks while improving the service and product. I am getting busy with school and other things this month but I will be in this forum as much as I can. For any urgent or direct questions or comments feel free to email us at longrangelasers@gmail.com

Thanks Everybody and remember, Please Laze Responsibly,
Long Range Lasers
 
DontLazeMeBro said:
Bionic Badger: "Nothing was said, or implied, ridiculing astronomy enthusiasts about their hobby" False, I believe the term you used was "astronomy nuts." If you could please leave this thread it would be appreciated, you seem to be doing more harm than good here. Although I did get some good information from you, you are causing a lot of arguing with your condescending tone, it really takes away from the learning and progression for our company as well as other users.
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Don't be so obtuse. Nuts," as in enthusiasts, not "crazy people." Even astronomy enthusiasts call themselves "astronomy nuts" in the positive sense -- which is the more typical meaning. I would call people on this forum -- and myself -- "laser nuts."

And no, I will not leave this thread just because you're not hearing what you want to hear. This is not your forum nor thread. If you don't want to read anything from me you can add me to your ignore list in your user control panel.
 
Lol whatever helps you sleep at night bro... I'm gonna find that ignore button now
:lasergun:

Long Range Lasers
 
Question for those that care to contribute to the conversation... Before I order these safety glasses what are the specific characteristics that the glasses absolutely need for full protection??
 
You'll have to do a search. There's an entire section dedicated to it. People here don't like to repeat themselves if it's a common question.

I'll be nice and give you something to start with though: Attenuation and Wavelength. You need to be concerned with those.
 
I hope you appreciate the +3 rep I gave you- I forgot to click neg before sending- youwere already asked to refrain from double posting- its not rocket surgery learn to do it or maore negs will be coming.
Here is a Q that I dont think was asked- I am not an astromy nut or geek just a laser geek.
So I ask you this- when used for star pointing, about how long are these laser kept running?
MOST green pointers, especailly the less expensive ones, will quickly die if ran too much beyond the recommended duty/rest cycle. Do you intend to do any 'test to death' testing?
That is afaik the only way you can show that these are capable of withstanding a long run time? Most china sellers do not seem to have a clue about the cycle. One I wrote asking & got this reply " we only sell laser we no sell cycles " (bicycles i guess).

I fail to understand why you think a useful star pointing laser needs to be under 5mW.
Even a 5mW is a federal offence to intentionally lase any aircraft- which I have no doubt that the astronmy geeks know all about & have no intention to do that.

If we vets here at LPF seem to be somewhat protective of the newer members and the forum in general that would be a correct assumption. You are FAR from being the first to came here to sell your wares- so you make want to dial it back a notch & try to avoid arguing with us. it will not do you any good anyway. Please don't insult our intelligence with your claims of wanting to protect us from getting ripped -off. You are here to sell lasers.
 
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