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Kepler Goes Down :(

daguin

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After rocketing into deep space and passing its initial tests, the Kepler telescope began its search for planets around other stars on May 12, 2009.

Engineers designed the spacecraft to last four years, and apparently the warranty has expired.
Last Sunday, four years to the day after science observations began, a component critical to pointing the spacecraft failed.
Kepler placed itself in safe mode, a kind of electronic hibernation, and chances are not good that it can resume its work.

More at -- Kepler Goes Down ? and Probably Out - News from Sky & Telescope - SkyandTelescope.com

Peace,
dave
 
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bummer. hubble can't have too much longer either. I hope the james webb telescope is ready soon. It would be if the government would quit wasting money and spend it where it is useful, in gaining knowledge
 
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No we must continue to throw money at Afghanistan. Then they will become a democracy and terrorism will be gone forever.......

Hopfully they can keep hubble running long enough. That telescope has done its fair share but there is just so much more that needs to be explored.
 
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bummer. hubble can't have too much longer either. I hope the james webb telescope is ready soon. It would be if the government would quit wasting money and spend it where it is useful, in gaining knowledge

I dunno, one could easily argue that staring at stars really isn't useful either. Yeah, you gain "knowledge", but it's just of some light shining from stars that will never be visited ever in human existence. Pretty useless in the greater context of things.

While on the subjects of "wasting money":

What I find to be a real waste of money for space funding is sending humans up into space -- especially that ridiculous ISS. Each shuttle mission to that ISS cost about $1.3 Billion; each Soyuz module launch cost $424 Million (6 seats).

To put this figure into perspective: the cost of one single ISS shuttle or roughly 2.2 Soyuz launches is more than the total cost of the Mars Exploration Rover entire program which lasted from 2003 to 2009 ($802M + $120M in extensions); one single ISS shuttle launch would've covered the cost of two (2) Kepler spacecraft; 2.5x ISS shuttle launches would have covered the entire cost of the Cassini-Huygens mission to Saturn.

To put the cost of the space program into perspective with respect to social programs in the United States: the total cost of NASA's space shuttle program, at $200 Billion, is less than half the cost of one year of paying for Medicare ($523 Billion in 2010).

To put other things into perspective: the total combined cost of the second Iraq War (2003+) and the war in Afghanistan (2001+) is roughly $2 Trillion. However, if you consider that this is spread over a ~10-year period, the per-year cost of the wars, at $200B/year, is actually quite manageable for an economy this size (manageable, but not something to be desired). The real major costs are Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid that together amount to $1.5T per year -- and growing.

So I guess we really ought to decide what really is a waste of money.
 
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just because the stars may never be visited by us, doesn't mean the knowledge is useless. I think learning the nature of the universe should be a top priority of humanity, but I also believe there is no deity coming to save us from ourselves. I don't want to argue exactly where the gov is wasting money, but what we have is foxes guarding the hen house.

It sure is expensive getting into orbit, no argument there. I thought Obama shut down the shuttle program? don't we hitch rides with Russia now? A space elevator would be nice.
 
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just because the stars may never be visited by us, doesn't mean the knowledge is useless. I think learning the nature of the universe should be a top priority of humanity,

I agree.
Maybe most people care more about things that are relevant to their everyday life... like celebrity gossip and fashion trends...
But how can you (@Bionic-Badger) say that answering questions about the existence of us and everything we know is useless?
Maybe if we could reveal more about our place in the universe, humanity could finally get it's ass out of the imperial age and work toward a common goal.

But I suppose most people think it's more "useful" to trade bullets and bombs for gold and oil, rather than knowledge and resources for more knowledge and resources.
 
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I never said such knowledge was useless, my point was the opposite. i agree completely with you RA_pierce. i been meaning to send you a FR
 
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SP_120616_X37B-IR-image.png

Boeing X-37 unmanned space drone. The military is and has been in space. No one really knows what this little guy is up to. :tinfoil:

There may be hope yet for Kepler... Sail the Solarwind friend.

~ LB
 
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just because the stars may never be visited by us, doesn't mean the knowledge is useless. I think learning the nature of the universe should be a top priority of humanity, but I also believe there is no deity coming to save us from ourselves. I don't want to argue exactly where the gov is wasting money, but what we have is foxes guarding the hen house.

No not useless -- there'll always be some level of value -- but in the greater context of things, not providing useful information for the majority of humanity.

For example, we could study every feature and aspect about the pencil I have here on my desk too, but it wouldn't be relevant for nearly all people. The same thing for studying some unnamed stars billions of light years away from us. The nature of those stars... will never affect us, other than maybe being an interesting topic for a select few.

Personally, I'd rather we spend our space money on developing a space elevator. We've finally found materials that can make it possible (carbon nanotubes), and the ability to to do anything meaningful in space is predicated on our abilities to get into space -- which is not cheap.

It sure is expensive getting into orbit, no argument there. I thought Obama shut down the shuttle program? don't we hitch rides with Russia now? A space elevator would be nice.

Those rides aren't free. As noted above, they're about $424 Million per launch. That's about 1/3rd the cost of a space shuttle launch, but still an incredible amount for what I see as a useless endeavor at this time (manned missions in space).

I'd so much rather put up telescopes, send out probes, rovers, etc. to other planets than waste our time and money at that space-station hotel above earth studying how to keep more humans up there.

I agree.
Maybe most people care more about things that are relevant to their everyday life... like celebrity gossip and fashion trends...
But how can you (@Bionic-Badger) say that answering questions about the existence of us and everything we know is useless?

Because it's in the past? It has no utility in any person's life (besides obtaining research grants or notoriety)? It'll never make a difference besides just knowing it?

Don't get me wrong, I think knowledge -- even for the sake of knowledge -- can be interesting and good. However, besides simply knowing something, what are we really gaining by looking at objects that are billions of light years away? What problems does that knowledge solve? There are many "infinitely" deep and complex systems we can investigate with applications beyond pure knowledge as well.

From my own perspective, studying space is good because, well, it's an interesting read and the pictures are cool. Aside from that though, it does little for me. I don't think it's much different for nearly all of humanity either -- if people have even considered the question in the first place.

Maybe if we could reveal more about our place in the universe, humanity could finally get it's ass out of the imperial age and work toward a common goal.

No amount of science and understanding is going to change that problem. It's not a function of knowledge but behavior and social structure. The only way to work toward a common goal is to ensure everybody thinks the same and that people are kept in their place. We already have the capabilities to enforce that, and we've already suffered it too. It's nothing to be aspiring towards. Our greatest advancements have come from independent thinking, conflicts, competition, and disagreement. Even evolution is based on that kind of diversity and competition. Without that, we'd stagnate and ultimately die.

But I suppose most people think it's more "useful" to trade bullets and bombs for gold and oil, rather than knowledge and resources for more knowledge and resources.

I don't believe that the trading of knowledge and resources is less competitive and destructive than the exchange of weapons and currency. They're merely conflicts at different levels. Sometimes the use and trade of weapons and currencies are even preferable -- they're at least tangible.
 
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Personally, I'd rather we spend our space money on developing a space elevator. We've finally found materials that can make it possible (carbon nanotubes), and the ability to to do anything meaningful in space is predicated on our abilities to get into space -- which is not cheap.

Lunar Mineral Rights secured by Resnick, O'Neill and Cramer

A loophole in Space Law allows individuals and companies to hold Mineral Rights on the Moon.

Well, it seems someone already owns the rights to He3 mining on the Moon.

~ LB
 
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I'd so much rather put up telescopes, send out probes, rovers, etc. to other planets than waste our time and money at that space-station hotel above earth studying how to keep more humans up there.

I don't think that sending humans to space is a high priority for space exploration but I do think that the ISS represents something that is good...
It shows that different humans can unite with a singular goal... for science! After all, it is the International Space Station.

Because it's in the past? It has no utility in any person's life (besides obtaining research grants or notoriety)? It'll never make a difference besides just knowing it?

From my own perspective, studying space is good because, well, it's an interesting read and the pictures are cool. Aside from that though, it does little for me. I don't think it's much different for nearly all of humanity either -- if people have even considered the question in the first place.

I see your point. And I agree that most people don't really care. But I don't see why that is a reason to stop the people who do care from doing the research. Yeah it's money from "the people" but who really gives a shit anyway? That money isn't going toward improving public education or fixing pot holes in the street so it might as well pay for something awesome like searching for possible habitable planets.

No amount of science and understanding is going to change that problem. It's not a function of knowledge but behavior and social structure.... Even evolution is based on that kind of diversity and competition. Without that, we'd stagnate and ultimately die.

Ok. But knowledge does have a significant impact on behavior and social structure... Even culture and religion.
Our world is the way it is because our understanding of it has evolved.
New knowledge, new ideas, and free information changes our perspective. Information gives us new ways to understand ourselves and new ways to adapt.
Of course, we don't have to focus on space exploration in order to gain new knowledge. But space is there. So why not? "Because we can" is a good enough reason. IMO.
Particle physics is another very expensive project... It just so happens that when we meet the limit of our understanding, there is a high cost to surpass it. But if we can do it, why not?

Now, about the money thing... what would you say is more urgent, important, or relevant for us to invest time and money in?
Protecting our immediate environment (Earth)?
Curing disease? (is eliminating disease even a good idea?)
Alternative fuels?

I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. "Fixing" the world or even improving it involves a lot of complex shit. And that, I think, is one of the reasons why money and resources are poorly managed.
We don't know where we're going, how to get there, or what will happen when we arrive. So I think while we are here, we may as well learn what we can because "knowledge is power" and there's no way to tell how it may affect us in the future. :)
 
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very good Bionic-Badger, you are well spoken and know your facts. Allow me to contradict you once more, not all stars are billions of light years away, the closest I believe is proxima centauri. If our species is to survive the death of our sun, we'll eventually need to relocate. knowledge of our nearest cosmic neighborhood will be more beneficial than distant quasars and such
 
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Unfortunately Utopian ideals do not sit well with the reality of our current paradigm of Martial superiority and domination. It took me many years to except that there has never been a precedent for "Peace" only periods of "stability".

If medical science "cures" disease and old age, will we eventually have "immortals" vying for resources with the young.

Buckminster Fuller many years ago helped with a study to see if we could meet the world's energy needs by sharing our energy resources globally. They calculated energy consumption in different parts of the world, shifting surplus energy from the dark side of the planet to the light side. The numbers worked out, and this was with decades old technology.

Tesla's dream was free wireless energy for everyone.

IMO it just boils down to control.



~ LB
 
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long ago I accepted that death is the price of life. "the universe is hostile, so impersonal, devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been"-TOOL-Vicarious

If not for death paving the way for new life, there'd be no existence. For me, the mushroom is a good symbol of this, it turns decay of death into new life and recycles otherwise difficult to obtain nutrients for use by other organisms. fungi are the vanguards of ecosystems. anyone who knows about rain forest and old-growth forest knows that without fungi, the ecosystem would collapse.

My avatar is an expression of this concept in part. notice the fetuses inside the skulls?

Could a space elevator throw off earth's rotation? would it be wise to build one on opposite sides of the globe to maintain balance?
 
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