Arrests?

[ElektroFreak]

^I'm not really seeing where what you're saying is at odds with Infinitus, Michael.. All he's saying is that most if not all laws are subject to interpretation where they are not specific, which is true. An unprofessional cop can bust a person for just about anything and at the very least make their life difficult for a little bit. Most of us would want to avoid that.

Outside of the act of illuminating aircraft, people or vehicles, the cops are not likely to be a problem for the vast majority of people playing with their handhelds, no matter what the power level.

And just so EVERYONE (even you Steve001) can find the number to the CDRH it's right here (see the contact info at bottom right of page). That's how I found out who I should talk to in my area.

Also, contacting any of the field offices (imagine that idea) listed here will likely put you into contact with someone in your geographical area who can answer specific questions about handheld laser usage and the legality thereof.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

couldn't be further from the truth. it doesnt mean shit if a cop takes your laser away or brings you to jail.

I don't know about you, but personally I don't enjoy being searched, handcuffed, and getting a ride to the local PD for processing.

If you think it's not a big deal you should also consider that without anything else occurring, the arrest itself, goes on your record. It's not cheap to expunge.

So IMO it does "mean $hit".

its the laws that set it straight. if you have a decent lawyer and the laws are still murky, you will be free and get your laser back. That is how the law works. And that is exactly what a lawyer is for.

In theory I agree, in practice not everyone has a lawyer on retainer. Legal fees alone mean that in many situations people are forced to forfeit the fight, and ask for a reduced sentence.

cops don't usually care if you did something wrong or not. :Selective Enforcement"... who cares... in california it's technically illegal to break your own possesions in a fit of rage.

Street cops have one over riding priority, and that is to maintain and control order. They do care if you're doing something wrong or not, because to their view if you aren't doing anything wrong or illegal, you are not interfering with order, and therefore do not require their attention.

Also if a cop recognizes that you aren't actually doing anything wrong or dangerous, he is much more likely to let you go with a "warning", instead of selectively enforcing a time out, with fines headaches and handcuffs.

It seems most people only seem to care what the cops will do.

Absolutely. I'm not particularly worried about a CDRH or FAA or FDA car driving by and seeing a laser beam from me in the sky. I'm also not worried about hitting a helicopter, plane, car, or person.

What does worry me is the overzealous local or state cop seeing the beam, hunting down the source to me, and causing me a whole lot of headaches and legal fees.

If you really didn't do anything wrong and a cop still takes it from you or cites you, you will get off.

In an ideal world, yes. We don't live in an ideal world though, and "getting off" does not happen like it does on all those lawyer shows. It takes, time, money, and effort. Things that are not always available.

Let me put it this way to you... lawyer fees at a minimum would run you $500. At a very very bare minimum. (Probably a whole lot more.)

Balance that against a talk with the prosecutor, and pleading down to a small fine and confiscation of your laser... what are you gonna do? What do you expect most people will do?

The police try to enforce the laws as best as possible but they really don't know the law.

I'm not a fan of cops, and there are some decidedly bad examples of LEOs out there, but that blanket statement is just wrong.

Cops have a very good understanding of what is needed for an arrest and a conviction to hold up. It's literally drilled into them.

Cops are also not above lying. So when you're in court and the cop says you pointed the laser at a car/plane/helicopter or truck, and you say you didn't, - guess who the judge will side with.

While I would love to agree with you... like I said before we don't live in an ideal world.

My primary concern, as well as the concern of many others I'm sure, is not the ultimate outcome of a legal battle, but rather not ending up in court in the first place.

 

[BShanahan14rulz]

Innocent people get thrown in jail and have to rot in prison for years just because they didn't have the money at the time to hire the lawyer to disprove their guilt. Why take the chance?

 

[chipdouglas]

All i am saying is cops are not the law. and i see that most people only care about what a cop will do. Maybe i am nitpicking so i will stop.

IE, you won't get cuffed for shining your laser pointer or projector about. Thats a little dramatic don't you think.

michael.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

Innocent people get thrown in jail and have to rot in prison for years just because they didn't have the money at the time to hire the lawyer to disprove their guilt. Why take the chance?

Completely agree with your statement.

The original inquiry comes from the "fact" that 99.9% of the people on this forum have shined their lasers up into the dark night sky.

So to answer your question... for the great looking beams

All i am saying is cops are not the law. and i see that most people only care about what a cop will do. Maybe i am nitpicking so i will stop.

I agree cops are not the law, but cops are the reason 99.99% of people encounter the law.

IE, you won't get cuffed for shining your laser pointer or projector about. Thats a little dramatic don't you think.

I've been handcuffed a few times, once for jaywalking...

Another time for drinking a cup of WATER about 30 feet from a bar. @$$hole cop was threatening me with lewd behavior, public intoxication, open container and resisting arrest. You know why... his "girlfriend" gave me her number. Granted I wasn't completely sober... I was very far from intoxicated, and all the other threats were pure BS. Once his sergeant showed up, I was released instantly.

So no, I don't think I'm being dramatic at all. If you never dealt with @$$hole cops, consider yourself lucky.

 

[chipdouglas]

Completely agree with you statement.

The original inquiry comes from the "fact" that 99.9% of the people on this forum have shined their lasers up into the dark night sky.

So to answer your question... for the great looking beams

now that, I will agree with!!!:na:

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

now that, I will agree with!!!:na:

LOL. I knew we agreed on something:na:

 

[chipdouglas]

lol if we couldn't argree on that, then i think it would have been time for both of us to leave LPF =p


michael.

 

[ElektroFreak]

Boys, I think that's what we're all in it for..

Canada's got an ideal environment for laser hobbyists.. really not much legislation up there at all regarding the use of lasers, at least there didn't used to be. If we could only get our gov't to see things as they do on that.. but that'll never happen.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

While Canada has some huge pluses... I do like the second amendment a lot

I'm thinking or going up to quebec for a week in august actually. I'm more concerned about coming back with lasers, than I am with leaving:undecided:

 

[JBTexas]

 

[ElektroFreak]

^Love it! Lol!! There's one benefit of letting everyone shine their lasers into the sky.. But I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords.

New!?!?!? Crap no one told me about the old ones:tinfoil:




:na:

 

[JBTexas]

New!?!?!? Crap no one told me about the old ones:tinfoil:
:na:

The government secretly harvested The Old Ones from Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. Their bodies were used to make better televisions and kitchen appliances.

 

[ShortyInCanada]

Glad to see things lightening up on this thread.
It was making for some good reading at work though...

Just to comment on the whole thing ;
Up here in Canada the "Mounties" or you various City Cops need almost no provocation to legally enter your premises and confiscate just about anything they want leaving you to go through the motions of getting it back. (don't ask !) The American system is a lot more protective of your rights along these lines, as I understand it.
As has been pointed out, the laws/rules/regulations for various things are much more relaxed here though. Probably because it becomes harder for the troublesome parties (not big time criminals mind you, but the low level punks and hoods.) to keep their impliments of chaos or to go through that bother to try to reclaim them.

However, the biggest similarity in both imperfect systems is that when it comes down to charges/prosecution the best/smartest thing to prove is INTENT !
Laws have ambiguous terms and definitions so that they can be used with different interpretations for many scenarios as trying to draft a specific one will preclude so many other instances. There would need to be tens of thousands of laws/regulations for every possible or concievable application. There is no way to make that work. The grey areas are necessary.
What it boils down to is the intent of the person involved. If you did something wrong and it was an unfortunate accident, or you couldn't have known that it wasn't allowed, or any of a whole bunch of other reasons, there is little likelihood of being charged and arrested. (the origin of this thread !) You just need to make clear that you did not intend to do any harm. The grey area of those rules/regulations/laws can be used to work for you too.
It is extremely rare for a cop to arrest someone for being stupid. You might still temporarily lose your hardware but getting it back should be possible.
Just to be smart, you should alway invite the cops across the street over for your laser shows and such. They could become powerful friends/allies in the future.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

Just to be smart, you should alway invite the cops across the street over for your laser shows and such. They could become powerful friends/allies in the future.

Very good advice there...

Personally whenever I go to a rooftop place, before I start playing with my lasers I generally find the owner or at least manager. I also get to know the bouncers... they are far less likely to do anything stupid if they stop thinking of you as "troublemaker X" and start thinking of you as "Good guy friendly with the owner."

Same approach with cops. At a rapture party I had three lasers shooting up into the sky... normally I would have been quite paranoid but it was in a no fly corridor, and I happened to be sitting with cops. They enjoyed the light show