Arrests?

[JBTexas]

Here in Texas, we have mosquitoes that could whip Mothra's ass.

EDIT: And by the way? Godzilla vs some of our "horny toads"? No contest.
Horned lizard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(at least as far as fugliness)

(BY the way: They really DO spit blood from their eyes as a defense mechanism. As a kid, I've been splattered myself. For years that was thought to be a myth. I guess some scientist FINALLY saw it happen in a lab or something.)

Just noticed this on that wiki page; HAD to post it...

If this fails, they puff up their body to cause it to look more horny, making it appear larger and more difficult to swallow. At least four species are also able to squirt an aimed stream of blood (see Autohaemorrhaging) from the corners of the eyes for a distance of up to five feet.

... so if you are ever mugged or assaulted, take a lesson from the Horned Toad: "Puff up, look horny and spit blood from your eyes!"
:crackup:

 

[steve001]

All of those documents are geared toward health and public safety. So... does health and public safety only matter when money is being made?

How ridiculous would it be if the FAA said this?



They're concerned with public safety - which is affected whether or not money is being made off of the display.

It seems that hobbyists are a small enough segment of the class IV laser beams in the sky that the documents haven't been updated to include them.

-Trevor

^There you go.. missed that last line. Even though there might not be any specific mention of hobbyists, I can assure you that the CDRH still maintains jurisdiction over all public laser-related activities and the FAA maintains jurisdiction over ALL navigational hazards, regardless of whether people are being paid in the process of producing those hazards.

I believe that maybe some of the confusion stems from the difference between sales and distribution of laser devices (which are only regulated if they are to be entered into commerce, thus rendering most DIY builds exempt unless they are sold to anyone at any time for any amount of money) and the PUBLIC USAGE of laser devices, particularly high-powered laser beams in navigable airspace, which is regulated regardless of monetary concerns for obvious reasons. A potential navigational hazard is a potential navigational hazard. Money doesn't figure into that equation at all.

Also, it's really amazing to me that someone from the US would be seemingly unable to grasp that not all legislation needs to be worded specifically to a certain action or certain conditions to apply to those situations anyway. All the lawyers that write the legislation need is language that is close enough and it can be made to stick. If the CDRH says their "interpretation" includes public laser displays by handheld wielding hobbyists, the only way said hobbyists can fight that is to hire a lawyer.. or Steve001. He seems more than willing to argue with them, but he seems like he'd argue with God over the laws of physics so I'm not sure he'd be the best choice.

I took you up on your suggestion ElectroFreak and emailed the CDRH this morning, this is their reply. I've highlight the important part. Hopefully this will put an end to both of your misinterpretation of the regulations pertaining to this specific matter. Everything else you've both have mention above is irrelevant to this matter. For the rest of you I hope this puts your minds at ease

Me:
Dear Sir / Madam,
Could you clarify this if you can or forward this to the appropriate department.

For personal use only and with no intent to interfere or cause malice to aircraft, is it illegal to shine a class 3 or greater laser into the night sky. In short is there any federal law stating and prohibiting such an activity ?
I combed the CDRH site along with the web and have not come across such a law.

Thank you for your time.

Reply:
Hi Steve,

Shining a laser or high powered light into the sky is not, in itself, illegal, and amateur astronomers have been using lasers safely for quite a few years, but you may have read news articles about people being arrested and charged for illuminating aircraft. Currently, there are 2 federal regulations, one under the FAA and one under the Patriot Act, and various states have fines and possible prison time on the books against aircraft illumination. As you can imagine, pilots and law enforcement take these actions very seriously, as does the FDA. We have this article on our website, see: FDA Safety Notification: Risk of Eye and Skin Injuries from High-powered, Hand-held Lasers Used for Pointing or Entertainment, and here's a very interesting study of the problem by the FAA from 2006, see: http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/oamtechreports/2000s/media/200623.pdf , written by Mr. Van Nakagawara, who has posted several papers on the FAA website regarding the continuing problem. At this point, the FAA is reporting thousands of incidents per year.

Hope this helps,

Sincerely,

Cory Tylka | Consumer Safety Officer | Electronic Products Branch
Division of Mammography Quality and Radiation Programs | OCER/CDRH/FDA
Radiation-Emitting Products

 

[ElektroFreak]

Hey good for you! Too bad it took 9 years of bullshit to get you to do it, but hey.. not everyone's all that sharp and that's OK.

Oh, and I and the CDRH rep I spoke with stand corrected.

 

[Trevor]

Class III or higher... hm. You conveniently forgot to mention multiwatt "pointers." :tired:

I'll come back when your bout of self-interest is over.

I'm waiting to hear back from the rep I emailed.

-Trevor

 

[steve001]

Hey good for you! Too bad it took 9 years of bullshit to get you to do it, but hey.. not everyone's all that sharp and that's OK.

Oh, and I and the CDRH rep I spoke with stand corrected.

The whole time all you had to do was be familiar with the rules set forth by the CDRH. It was as simple as that. I get the feeling the last sentence is dripping with insincerity.

 

[steve001]

Class III or higher... hm. You conveniently forgot to mention multiwatt "pointers." :tired:

I'll come back when your bout of self-interest is over.

I'm waiting to hear back from the rep I emailed.

-Trevor

What now ? Are you going to play my rep is better than your rep ?

 

[Trevor]

I sent an email to the rep I discussed the Arctics with last summer.

I actually explained that the lasers in question are often multiwatt "pointers."

We'll see what he says.

EDIT: @above, well, I suspect I'll get a relevant answer since I didn't misrepresent the situation in my email to him.

-Trevor

 

[steve001]

I sent an email to the rep I discussed the Arctics with last summer.

I actually explained that the lasers in question are often multiwatt "pointers."

We'll see what he says.

EDIT: @above, well, I suspect I'll get a relevant answer since I didn't misrepresent the situation in my email to him.

-Trevor

A pointer, handheld, portable battery operated or a laser system are just cosmetic descriptions. What matters is the class designation. A class 3 or class 4 is still a class 3 or class 4 no matter the appearance of the laser. Are you going to dispute that ?

 

[Trevor]

Your "class three or higher" laser pointers that you mentioned don't really do justice to the ridiculous multiwatt pointers getting built.

I just think that once you properly represent what's going on, the answer may change. If it doesn't... it really should.

I've also dropped an email to a relevant party in ILDA.

-Trevor

 

[JBTexas]

 

[ElektroFreak]

The whole time all you had to do was be familiar with the rules set forth by the CDRH. It was as simple as that. I get the feeling the last sentence is dripping with insincerity.

I'm never too good to admit when I might be wrong.. but I stick to my guns when I believe I'm right . I've been told what I told you by literally everyone involved in lasers that I've talked to since I started messing with them when I was 12. Including the CDRH on more than one occasion I might add. I believe that your email was actually from a CDRH rep and so I stand corrected.

I'll tell you though, I can think of a great place for you to stick those "feelings" of yours..

 

[steve001]

I'm never too good to admit when I might be wrong.. but I stick to my guns when I believe I'm right . I've been told what I told you by literally everyone involved in lasers that I've talked to since I started messing with them when I was 12. Including the CDRH on more than one occasion I might add. I believe that your email was actually from a CDRH rep and so I stand corrected.

I'll tell you though, I can think of a great place for you to stick those "feelings" of yours..

We have something in common. I stick to my guns too.
Never to good to admit you are wrong. Well damn you went fighting tooth and nail to the truth didn't you.
Take responsibility for your actions. You started this ball rolling by calling me a moron. Which was no matter how you felt really inappropriate to say such a thing.

I did what I did more for the benefit of those that didn't know by providing excerpts from docs and links to docs so they could see for themselves what is allow and is not allowed.
Now you and everybody can breath easy knowing it's safe to shine a laser into the sky instead of keeping alive the persistent rumor. That's all I wanted.

 

[ElektroFreak]

No dude.. you wanted us to all kiss your ass and tell you how awesome you are. I stick by my assertion that, for you, this was all a kid's game about getting your way. The reason I stand by that assertion is because here you are, even now that the argument is done, still lecturing me on what you feel I need to do. That's been your premise since the start, and it's that premise that earned you the moron comment. Because of that, as far as I'm concerned you ARE a moron. Here, let me explain further:

It wasn't you that cleared this up, so you've got zero credit coming. As far as I can see it was the recommendation that you contact the CDRH (a recommendation that you ignored over and over because it didn't suit your arguments at the time) that cleared things up, as I suspected it might.. hence the recommendation and the links I posted. All you did was follow the trail that was suggested to you. I could care less what you OR I believe is right. It's the CDRH that has the final word. THAT's been my point the whole time, a point that was repeatedly either ignored or was lost on you. I might have been wrong, but apparently so are a whole lot of other people who work with lasers professionally every day so I don't feel too bad about it.

Now I've said I stand corrected. That's all you'll get from me.. We're done here.

 

[ixfd64]

I know this is kind of an old post, but I've never heard of anyone getting arrested for simply using a high-powered laser in public. All of the cases I've seen on the news generally involve aircraft to some extent.

I did get warned by an "FBI agent" for using my laser at a country event, but I suspect he wasn't a real LEO.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

I know this is kind of an old post, but I've never heard of anyone getting arrested for simply using a high-powered laser in public. All of the cases I've seen on the news generally involve aircraft to some extent.

I did get warned by an "FBI agent" for using my laser at a country event, but I suspect he wasn't a real LEO.

Not a chance. I have a really real looking FBI badge too... bought it for halloween a couple years back, put it in a badge holder with an old work id.

At a glance, real cops think it's read. Of course there is the little matter of it actually being a Federal Butt Inspector badge instead of bureau:crackup:

Usually all the arrests also involve a very high level of stupidity.

 

[TuhOz]

Hmm, every laser over 5mW is illegal in Finland.

Let's see what cops say about my 1W blue laser