ALERT: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

[Pontiacg5]

I think a few more people need to put there two cents in about standard shipping time. Especially those of us who have never even been inside a canada post.

Shipping time is irrelevant. The fact is Electron wants to make it look like he did everything possible to work this out but in reality he just ran to paypal and had them deal with it because he knew they would decide in his favor (as he spends so much of his limitless funds in paypal every month.) If a customer acts like that I would certainly like to know as I wouldn't touch them with a 100 foot pole. The point has been made, Electron has had problems receiving things from two members here on the forum. The only time his things dont come is when they are shipped untracked. Is that coincidence? Possibly. Is it an extremely long shot? Yeah, defiantly.

After reading this thread I, as a seller, can make my own choices about selling to this guy. Hopefully other sellers come to a similar conclusion, or at least we can hope they send things tracked.

I know he is a scammer though, he got me for a laser and a 445 diode pressed into a module with leads soldered on. He said the laser never came and he killed the module and got a refund through paypal for both. I shipped the laser untracked so that was my fault, but I also shipped two other tracked packages to him within two weeks or so and they all got there fine. Coincidence? Possibly.
He killed the module though, there was physical damage inside the can. I told him this and said I wasn't giving his money back yet he went to paypal anyway.

Bootleg's view of Electron may be good, but I bet he got tracking for every package he ever sent to Electron so he couldn't try anything if he wanted to. Besides, do you even accept paypal Bootleg? Did you send his stuff tracked?

It's funny, the people that like to brag about how much money they make are always the douchbags it seems. Your not a rapper, and nobody is impressed.

The moral of this thread, ALWAYS SEND STUFF TRACKED IF YOU USE PAYPAL. Even if it is cost prohibitive for tracking for international packages, make the buyer pay for it. Better yet, switch to Google wallet/checkout.

 

[Deleted member 10578]

Yes, everything I ship now has tracking, it's just bad business for me to do otherwise unless your willing to take the loss.

I no longer take paypal, they booted me for selling laser related items and held/ locked ~3k in USD for 6 months without any due process before they allowed me to remove it. Funny thing was I had changed over to my merchant account over a year earlier and hadn't used PP for anything expect payments to others in that time period. The 3k in the account was deposited from my checking into my PP account only days earlier for the purpose of using my PP card and getting a 1% discount for my Christmas shopping. They do not have any due process like normal banking institutions have to follow by law. they make their own rules and they are for the benefit of PP only and if they decide you did something wrong (if you did or didn't doesn't matter to the them and they won't let you explain or appeal), they will lock you account with any funds in it for 180 days.

That said, I've sent plenty of high end stuff to electron before he even made payment, so if he wanted to rip some off, he could done it to me big time.
He is one of only a couple customers that I trust so much.

I don't know what the PP rules are right now, but back when I used them, you had 45 days total, not 45 days to make a dispute and more time after that to make it into a claim. Back them if you took 40 day to file the dispute, you only had 5 days to raise to a claim I believe.

After 40 days, I see nothing wrong with making a PP dispute (it covers the buyer) and does not hurt the seller if it doesn't go into a claim as 40 days is plenty of time.
Even Tech Junkie's suggestions for safe buying /selling on the forum says in his rule #2
"If something goes wrong you have 45 days to file a dispute in Paypal. If you have not received your item by the 40th day, open a dispute. If the seller tries to stall, and/or says they will not refund your money unless you close the dispute, then escalate the dispute to a claim and let Paypal handle it. But do not file a dispute until it reaches at least 35 days. Delayed deliveries are not uncommon."

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/6-steps-prevent-you-getting-scammed-63634.html

I agree with TJ on this, you should wait at least 35 days...at least if it's international as it can take time. However if there is no reply to email or being able to contact the seller after the sale, I wouldn't even go that long (but I don't think it applied in this case as far as I can tell).

I have no idea about your diode ordeal.
I will say this, one of the reasons I don't sell diodes is because there are too many people who have no idea about true ESD workstations or even use them, most hobbyists only use wrist strap at most that doesn't even go back to a proper common ground point with the working surface. ESD damage is not always instant and catastrophic, it can be that lifetime of the component is greatly reduced and could die at any moment.
I'm not saying you don't use a proper workstation, you may, but I bet alot of your customers don't and that will bite them and you as well depending on the terms of your sale. I suppose if you list that all diodes are sold as is with no warranty or guarantee after the sale then you're covered, but then again you need to make sure they are aware of this by putting the text in the transaction itself and confirming the buyer actually know this.

I do agree with you about always using tracking and signature confirmation if possible. Remember it's the buyer who pays this cost and often there isn't a problem with this as they would like to have the confirmation and tracking ability, the only time it gets to be a pain is if you're selling very cheap items where the shipping ends up being the largest part of the purchase.

 

[aryntha]

hmm. All I can add to this, (and I have been following it) is - that I've done business with both bootleg2go and rhd, and everything went *more* than fine... (bootleg2go absolutely went out of his way to make my RPL order right, and RHD has shipped me two builds in the last few weeks; those went flawlessly except for -- you guessed it, a minor delay thanks to CanadaPost, nothing whatsoever to do with rhd.)

Two orders from RHD from his location in Canada to Colorado, I will say that the first shipment (which was trackable but not an ultra-fast method) actually arrived *quicker* than the expedited Xpresspost method the second time. (Xpresspost was 'guaranteed' I want to say 4 days, but ended up arriving in 6.) -- note that this was not ground, so before anyone says that it proves the 4-6 day time period, it doesn't: ground and air are (of course) two completely different animals. My point is it does seem to vary, often wildly.

The two packages took completely different routes to get here.

The interesting thing is, it seems that the delay for the Xpresspost package was simply due to CanadaPost *sitting on it* for 2 days while it didn't even move. So on slower products, who knows. They may just shelve them until they get around to it. I know I've seen situations where UPS (Yeah, not same thing either) will actually leave a package on the shelf for 2 days if it's 3-day service in the same city, versus delivering it overnight. No reason to devalue their other products or make room for lower priority.

RHD, DTR, bootleg2go, daguin, mohrenberg, jayrob, qumefox - I've done a lot of business with a lot of members on this forum and it's been fine, the few problems i've had, the members have worked with me..I guess what I'm saying is, in a community like this it's not really in a seller's interest to screw someone over for the cost of goods. Part of the point of a sale here is to have the buyer let other folks know that the transaction and end-product was good, as word travels light-speed within the forum. So I can't see a situation where RHD would take any part in screwing the recipient over. We can argue 'fault' as far as whether or not 'the shipper has the ultimate responsibility to get the package to the recipient', but the fact of the matter is, if CP or USPS blew it, they blew it, and it's *not* under rhd's control, and saying 'paypal dispute' pretty much terminates all niceties, and is the equivalent of saying 'this means war'.

As I've said I've received a lot of shipments - from these guys and other folks mentioned, and i've never been able to pin down an accurate time of how long it takes for me to get international packages. And I do have a decent sample size. The answer is still "?". Even with domestic packages, it changes, a lot.

Most packages I've gotten from Laserglow have been FedEx not CanadaPost->USPS, so I don't think that can be compared either.

I, too, "keep the local postman in business"; he's said so. (Though I'm not really sure how one's disposable income factors into this problem...) Ordering radio/audio tubes from Canada I've found the arrival time to vary between 5 days and 4 weeks. For the same shipping method. Again, often taking completely different routes.

Additionally in all this time i've never *lost somehing in the mail*. I have had things show up REALLY late, sometimes damaged, but never simply lost. I'm not saying it's impossible. Of course it is. But I do think that a delay is more likely than a loss. Daguin sent me a HeNe head from California (not very far away) and it took 2 weeks to get here because someone at the USPS forgot to scan the package, and it likely ended up sitting on a shelf for an entire week if not more. And this *was* trackable, USPS just decided it wasn't gonna move because someone 'oopsed' the scan on it. I'd have no real ground to stand on getting on Dave for that...

I guess the point is, international or not, there's a reason why "cheap shipping is cheap". I won't (ship/be shipped) any item, foreign *or* domestic, without tracking, unless I just don't care about getting it/it getting there. I think RHD's possible 'new' policy of going with "mandating trackable" is a good idea going forward. (And I hope rhd and qumefox have come to a new understanding on this too! ) ... If anything, I think when either postal service sees a trackable (and insured) package, they tend to 'mind themselves and the package' a bit better. It may not be true, but I've got at least a suspicion that if you use one of USPS's higher priced products at least, they do take your shipment more seriously.

Just a question, could a trace be initiated now, just with the shipping and receiving party's information? With the $100 of insurance, couldn't that be attempted to be claimed at this point? I guess RHD would have to prove value, but I do think it's odd that CP offers $100 of insurance on a package they have no way of knowing whether or not it got there. I'm not saying they don't, (I believe that) - but either they have a way to track the package that we're no aware of, or they know full well they'll never let anyone collect on that $100 of insurance.

 

[ShortyInCanada]

I will confirm : Canada Post is unreliable, overpriced, and staffed by people that, for the most part, are completely indifferent about the delivery of items. (You need to know a lot of history and a few people that have worked there to really understand all the details.) Unlike the US government, the Canadian government seems to view the postal service as a money pit that isn't worth investing into. They have a record of cutting funding and not caring about the results to the general public.
As another example for your information there is a local carrier company we use that sends out their billings EVERY week. They are located less than 20 minutes drive from where I work. Sometimes the bill from last week arrives 5 days before the previous weeks billing. It takes 2 weeks for the regular billing to be delivered. I have even had the occasional bill show up a month or two later. (I call the carrier billing dept. when I don't get the bill within 3 weeks myself. It happens enough to have their billing dept. on the company speed dial !)
If this is typical service for a local regularly occurring billing that is the so called "bread and butter" type of work for the only option of postal delivery and they perform it so poorly, how do you think it will translate into other services ?
There is a reason why the Canadian Postal system is failing ! The beauracracy of the government in financially stressful times and the unmoving attitude of the unions involved have made it an unhappy place to work, in the simplest terms.
They have become unreliable and uncaring in a time when there is competition from the private couriers that takes a huge part of the business away from them. (But even the couriers have similar problems. I have a number of Purolator examples I can give too.) This results in even less income for the postal service which perpetuates the problems.
I can attest that the service from USPS is far better than the floundering Canada Post.
Unfortunately, the private couriers know this and they can charge a lot more for their services making them much more expensive than they should be for what they provide. This leaves few economically responsible options for us, the unfortunate saps that need to send a fairly inexpensive or small item to somewhere.
Pay $80 for a bubble pouch to the US or more for the higher level of services by courier or take the chance with the postal department for under $20.
Knowing that the postal service will usually make it, eventually, to the destination is usually worth the gamble for the savings. In the long run, you will probably only have to replace less than 10% of the parcels shipped. This translates into a big difference for the smaller business.(Or personal business) Enough difference to make it worthwhile to be in business in the first place.

So I am sorry that you guys are still having difficulties and I hope it gets worked out soon as this thread isn't doing anything great for either of you.

My personal opinion is that RHD is still a responsible and reliable member of this community and that while Electron may be a little impatient for his purchases, (maybe he is excitable ?) that nobody is perfect and it is just the way things go. He has at least one person here to back him up in a major way so he can't be completely untrustworthy. Perhaps he is just selective. (I am very much so too.) I can't be sure. But I can relate to some of what he has written.

But then, who am I ? Nobody can back me up. I haven't bought much of anything here or sold anything. I'm still new and trying to figure things out.
I can only offer my experiences and suggestions for your considerations.

In the meantime, I will continue to watch how things work out.

 

[rhd]

hmm. All I can add to this, (and I have been following it) is - that I've done business with both bootleg2go and rhd, and everything went *more* than fine... (bootleg2go absolutely went out of his way to make my RPL order right, and RHD has shipped me two builds in the last few weeks; those went flawlessly except for -- you guessed it, a minor delay thanks to CanadaPost, nothing whatsoever to do with rhd.)

Just to avoid ANY confusion here, no issue with bootleg2go. None at all. I'm sure he's super-reputable and professional in his business dealings. I've never dealt with him and the extent of my criticism of him is limited to his incorrect characterization of CanadaPost in support of Electron.

(And I hope rhd and qumefox have come to a new understanding on this too! ) ... If anything, I think when either postal service sees a trackable (and insured) package, they tend to 'mind themselves and the package' a bit better. It may not be true, but I've got at least a suspicion that if you use one of USPS's higher priced products at least, they do take your shipment more seriously.

Just a question, could a trace be initiated now, just with the shipping and receiving party's information? With the $100 of insurance, couldn't that be attempted to be claimed at this point? I guess RHD would have to prove value, but I do think it's odd that CP offers $100 of insurance on a package they have no way of knowing whether or not it got there. I'm not saying they don't, (I believe that) - but either they have a way to track the package that we're no aware of, or they know full well they'll never let anyone collect on that $100 of insurance.

Lol, in all seriousness, I definitely inquired about some springs with Qume a few days ago, and I think we're going untracked
- The difference of course (and I've said this when ordering from ModWerx, CajunLasers, Qume, and a few others), is that if I ask them to go with cheap untracked shipping, and it gets lost, I'll bite the bullet. And I would. Anyway though, that's not the issue here, the circumstances are different.

You might find this hard to believe but YES, CanadaPost actually insures something they can't track. Again, a "trace" on an untracked parcel is, as far as I can gather, limited to them calling the recipient to verify if it arrived. I never once claimed CanadaPost made sense, but then, I'm not CanadaPost, so I don't need to defend their practices. Glad about that one. Their practices don't make sense a lot of the time, but they are what they are. There are SO MANY weird little nuances to CanadaPost shipping, that it's no shock they're a money pit. Truly - they have so many weird policies that are counter intuitive. Like not being able to track something that goes surface parcel but has $100 insurance. Or allowing Paypal to print CP postage, but allowing that printout to be ABSOLUTELY without any distinguishing marks that show it to be an actual paid for postage label, and not a photocopy of the label you used a week before, or a mock-up in Photoshop. Seriously, CanadaPost doesn't make sense - but that doesn't mean I'm being dishonest, it just means that they don't make sense.

I would also emphasize, again, that in one of the first PMs back and forth, and actually went to the trouble of giving Electron the CanadaPost toll-free phone number.

My personal opinion is that RHD is still a responsible and reliable member of this community and that while Electron may be a little impatient for his purchases, (maybe he is excitable ?) that nobody is perfect and it is just the way things go. He has at least one person here to back him up in a major way so he can't be completely untrustworthy. Perhaps he is just selective. (I am very much so too.) I can't be sure. But I can relate to some of what he has written.

But then, who am I ? Nobody can back me up. I haven't bought much of anything here or sold anything. I'm still new and trying to figure things out.
I can only offer my experiences and suggestions for your considerations.

In the meantime, I will continue to watch how things work out.

Thank you, I appreciate that. Although to be honest, I would sure as heck hope this didn't impact my reputation. In fact, Electron has tossed around the (childish in my opinion) notion of "fault fault fault" like a broken record. I would actually be *really* interested, for anyone, to suggest anything that I've done wrong at any stage of this issue. I truly can't see any step of the process that I could have handled more correctly, or more generously to be honestly. If I'm naive, show me.

I made a business error in not always forcing every buyer to use tracking. That's clear now, and I won't make that mistake again. But in terms of handling this issue better, if anyone can point to something I did wrong, please - highlight it. I don't think there is ANYTHING I could have done to avoid Electron's actions. I don't think he is a reasonable human being.

 

[rhd]

You know what else just occurred to me?

- Completely after this sale was paid for, shipped, and in the bag, I asked electron whether he had any polishing compounds to touch up the finish on that build in the future. He said no. I told him that it was important to me that the laser stay looking top-notch, and actually ORDERED him a tube of diamond paste, and gave his address to the seller, to have that shipped directly to him. Not part of the sale, not discussed ahead of time, just something extra I did as a thank-you. I forgot about that until just now.

 

[lasersbee]

Just a question, could a trace be initiated now, just with the shipping and receiving party's information? With the $100 of insurance, couldn't that be attempted to be claimed at this point? I guess RHD would have to prove value, but I do think it's odd that CP offers $100 of insurance on a package they have no way of knowing whether or not it got there. I'm not saying they don't, (I believe that) - but either they have a way to track the package that we're no aware of, or they know full well they'll never let anyone collect on that $100 of insurance.

Simple answer NO... CP would contact the buyer and he could say
no whether the package arrived or not. That would be good only if
an Insurance claim were file.
There are no BarCodes or Tracking numbers on the shipping service
that RHD chose.
The only thing they might be able to do is use a Blood Hound... and
that is unlikely...

Electron played his game and RHD Lost... NEXT...

The only thing you (RHD) did wrong was not to use the info I PMed
you. Keep that to yourself....


Jerry

 

[jcranmer]

PP apparently makes it way to easy for a buyer to win a dispute.

I think someone else has already said this, but the issue here isn't so much about shipping times, but the fact that the buyer just doesn't want to work things out.

I can't imagine a single situation where I would even file a claim so soon after an item went "missing" in the post and even more so with a member as respected as RHD.

 

[lasersbee]

Not all Buyers are pR!cks...

I sold a LaserBee II to a no LPF Member Customer in
the USA last May...
The package finally showed up 4weeks later crushed...
It looked like a Fork Lift or Truck had run over it.
The Customer made a mistake in accepting the package.

To make a long story short... The Customer finally got
his replacement LaserBee II shipped to him and he never
even opened a PP Dispute let alone a Claim.

I kept in constant contact with him and answered all his
questions very promptly. Never did I make him feel that
I was Ignoring him but rather that he was my most
important customer.

BTW... I filed an Insurance claim in May and finally.. after
jumping through countless repetitive CP hoops... got a
check in Nov...

There are very understanding people out there...


Jerry

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

I kept in constant contact with him and answered all his
questions very promptly. Never did I make him feel that
I was Ignoring him but rather that he was my most
important customer.

That's the key.

The buyer here jumped the gun in filing a dispute.

Some customers are pricks there is no getting around that. Still, in most cases, good communication tends to mitigate the situation.

I should also note, that different people respond differently to communications. If someone always sends you two sentence messages, don't send them back a freaking thesis on the economy.

Keep it short, polite, to the point. Unless you know the other person also likes to communicate extensively.

 

[electron]

Source?
You don't have to sign for a USPS packaged insured for less than $300.

I'll be waiting for you to "address" me. Really a moot point though, you are the ONLY one I've sold to on the forum who filed a claim against me and you filed TWO. I've sold thousands of dollars of laser stuff through this forum to hundreds of different members and you are the only one I've had a problem with.

But I guess you and Zdarhan or whatever his name is are the only ones who know how buying on the internet works. Except you don't know how the paypal claim process works.

Bull. Plain and simple. I do await your reply though, ought to be interesting.

Does this sound familiar to you?? (this was a year & half ago)

"As far as the pen, I am not going to replace it, I no longer have any means to. Please file a dispute on paypal for not receiving an item. I will reply to the dispute and since I don't have a tracking number paypal will end the dispute in your favor. They will either then take the money from my bank account or just cover it themselves, I have no idea what exactly they will do, but you will get your money back.

I also forgot about the $10 I said I would refund, I will call and refund that when I get home. I can't refund any of it anymore, the $10 either.

I'll tell you what, just file a claim on all of them. The diodes, the $10 for modules and leave the case for the pen open. Paypal will rule in your favor on the 6th since I'm not going to respond and you get all of your money back."


I pm'd you back & forth many times with you and even offered to pay for the parts to build another, you replied you couldn't get the parts anymore. In the end I bought the parts myself from Jayrob, they certainly were available. I was in constant contact with you and never filed two disputes against you without working with you and following your advice. You basically refunded voluntarily and even for stuff that you sent me that wasn't even bad, as you were pissed at PP and knew they would get stuck with it because I funded PP with a CC.

I was shocked when you decided to try and pour some fuel on the fire here in an attempt to discredit me here. YES you did continue to sell to me afterwards using Google Money, and why not I've done nothing wrong and did exactly as you asked, I communicated with you a dozen or more times, I did NOT just go and file a dispute against you.

As for no one else had problems with your diodes, Well search around you'll find a couple more complaints from others that received dead diodes from you too and complained about the way you packed them, who packs them in cotton. You always post the same way, that know one ever complained before and you make tons of sales on here and it never happened, that simply is not true. It just seems of late that a seller or two that is "established" on here thinks the buyer is always at fault when something goes. I've been around here a long time too, and while I don't really sell on here, that doesn't make you any better than me.

The diode I bought from Dauquin /sp was packed extremely well and guess what? It actually worked...don't believe me ask him, no bad deal there. Check you jayrob too, many deals with him, he even did a couple of custom jobs for me.

Fast forwarding to more recent events, check with Swim on here; very recently bought some green lasers, NO tracking on them; ask him about the deal. How about DX, while a little harder to prove to the readers on here, I've done hundreds of deals with them, and NO tracking; how many disputes do you think I've done with them, ZERO! I also recently bought several good quality flashlights from another vendor, in a two month period I spent $1.5k with them, want to know how many disputes on those lights, ZERO and guess what, NO tracking. I have a back room filled with a zillion of those padded shipping packets the Chinese like to use, I'm a real pack rat.

I could go on and on, but then all I get back is that I'm bragging about my discretionary funds, which is simply is NOT true. I'm only trying to make a point that I buy heavily and regularly from many sources and don't have any need or motive to claim something happened or it didn't. Also I would then think that PP over the last what 10 yrs would have in that case canceled my account or something, rather I think I'm an excellent customer to them and several vendors that give me stellar service; even doing returns & exchanges when their general policy is not to.

As far as I just popped back onto this forum that is bull too, I haven't went anywhere. While I don't make 100's or thousand's of posts I don't live on the forum, my career and personal life keeps my busy doing other things.

Got to run,
Peace

 

[lasersbee]

Oh boy... another essay to read...
Goody... goody...:eg:

Jerry

 

[electron]

Oh boy... another essay to read...
Goody... goody...:eg:

Jerry

Yea I figured you needed something to do today :crackup::crackup:

 

[rhd]

Oh boy... another essay to read...
Goody... goody...:eg:

Jerry

I was just about to make the same comment

It just seems of late that a seller or two that is "established" on here thinks the buyer is always at fault when something goes. I've been around here a long time too, and while I don't really sell on here, that doesn't make you any better than me.

You keep returning to this immature "fault" concept. You have also, a few times now, tossed in the same rhetoric about "established sellers", and how "everyone points fingers at the buyers" on this forum, regardless of the circumstances. And you know what?

You're right.

But that's not what is happening here.

I'll grant you that this forum has a very "support those who are established and chastise those who are new" mentality. I've come up against that a number of times, from the other side. I've got a history of being antagonistic of sellers, and I know that there are a few people out there who specifically *dislike* me because I've *shattified* (is that a kosher was of saying it?) on sales threads that were blatantly exploitative. I get it. To some degree, your rhetoric about this forum being too pro-vet is on point. Considering that we've seen a few semi-reputable people go bad in recent months, that mentality is probably not entirely justified either.

But that doesn't apply to this scenario. Your rhetoric about fault! fault! fault! doesn't work, because this situation isn't about underlying fault. You've tossed around that argon laser issue between Swim and ZDark. Totally different issue there. The buyer wanted a full refund, and the seller (I think) wanted no refund. The issue there was people not working together, nor agreeing on whose "fault" the loss was. And indeed, there were a lot of varying opinions on "fault" in that case. Here, I never refused to replace the laser, or even proposed to split the cost with you. I told you, I would replace the laser.

The issue here, is that you didn't give me the opportunity to replace the (supposedly) lost item in the first place. Period.

You simply "took" the money back. And I think that's what has given you the appearance, of a scammer. I'm still quite happy to let our issue rest and just see what happens. If this package truly hasn't arrived, and you get it tomorrow and make good on the money you took back, then I'll happily be the first to confirm that in this thread. If you don't deserve the label that my thread, and the experience of Pontiac has created, then my apologies.

 

[Deleted member 10578]

WOW, packing static sensitive electronics in cotton??
Cotton is has a very high positive charge to it, it's one of the worst things to pack electronic components in.
I think the only way they could be packages worse is to put them in wool and send a glass rod to rub them with.

I would suggest at the very least use aluminum foil making sure both the anode and cathode are shorted / making contact with the aluminum so that no voltage potential is between them and then putting the foil packet in an ESD bag.

If sending in cotton with the cotton touching the diode directly, there is going to a high failure and much shorter lifespan.

 

[Deleted member 10578]

I was just about to make the same comment




You keep returning to this immature "fault" concept. You have also, a few times now, tossed in the same rhetoric about "established sellers", and how "everyone points fingers at the buyers" on this forum, regardless of the circumstances. And you know what?

You're right.

But that's not what is happening here.

I'll grant you that this forum has a very "support those who are established and chastise those who are new" mentality. I've come up against that a number of times, from the other side. I've got a history of being antagonistic of sellers, and I know that there are a few people out there who specifically *dislike* me because I've *shattified* (is that a kosher was of saying it?) on sales threads that were blatantly exploitative. I get it. To some degree, your rhetoric about this forum being too pro-vet is on point. Considering that we've seen a few semi-reputable people go bad in recent months, it's probably not entirely justified either.

BUT, the problem here, is that your rhetoric about fault fault fault doesn't work, because this situation isn't about underlying fault. You've tossed around that argon laser issue between Swim and ZDark. Totally different issue there. The buyer wanted a full refund, and the seller (I think) wanted no refund. The issue there was people not working together, nor agreeing agreeing on whose "fault" the loss was. Here, I have never ONCE brought up fault, you have. I never blamed you for the (supposed) loss of the parcel, and I never refused to replace it, or even proposed to split the cost with you. I told you, I would replace the laser.

The issue here, is that you didn't give me the opportunity to replace the (supposedly) lost item in the first place.
You simply "took" the money back. And I think that's what has given you the appearance, of a scammer. I'm still quite happy to let our issue rest and just see what happens. If this package truly hasn't arrived, and you get it tomorrow and make good on the money you took back, then I'll happily be the first to confirm that in this thread. If you don't deserve the label that my thread, and the experience of Pontiac has created, then my apologies.

Period.

Hi rhd,
I'm not privy to exactly what was said between you and electron, but I would say that 35-40 days is a resonable amount of time before starting a dispute.
That said a dispute is NOT a claim and doesn't go against you, it just starts the process and PP will sak you for information and to make contact with the buyer.
If you don't want it to go against your account, contact electron and maybe it could be worked out as such.
He could send you a new PP payment , then
You could issue a refund on the current charge.
This would give an extra 35-40 days for a new one to be sent or more time for the current one to arrive.
or you could issue a refund on your own and wait and see if electron gets it and if he does, he'll send you a new payment by PP.
When a buyer starts a dispute, it's just to protect themselves as there are alot of bad seller and scammers out there (WL) and such. I'm sure this is probably the 1st time electron did business with you and that if he had done successful transactions with you the past, and you had asked him to, he probably would have given more time for the item to arrive.

This is nobody's fault except for perhaps Canada post or maybe even USPS as we don't know if it ever made it into the country or not.