Example of a scammer at work.

Selling my 75mw E3 Elite Wicked lasers (Cheap, look!)

You can use these 6 steps to help prevent you from getting scammed when buying an item that's for sale. Nothing is 100%, but the more information you have the less chance you will be taken advantage of.

1. Never send cash through the mail. Always use a Postal Money Order, or check whenever you can. If a seller wants cash, walk away. When mailing a money order, or check, always get the "Tracking" option (around $0.70). This will at least give you some proof the item was delivered. This goes for sellers too. Always track your packages to avoid people saying they didn't receive it. Getting "Signature Confirmation" is an even better option because it requires a signature upon delivery (around $2). The bigger the paper trail you leave, the more evidence you have in case you get scammed. Also avoid sending anything to PO Boxes if possible.

2. When using Paypal never send as "Gift" or "Money Owed". If you send money this way you cannot file a dispute through Paypal if you get scammed. If someone asks you to send money this way its a sure bet its a scam. Always send money as "Payment For Goods", and write a description of the item in the message field. If something goes wrong you have 45 days to file a dispute in Paypal. If you have not received your item by the 40th day, open a dispute. If the seller tries to stall, and/or says they will not refund your money unless you close the dispute, then escalate the dispute to a claim and let Paypal handle it. But do not file a dispute until it reaches at least 35 days. Delayed deliveries are not uncommon.

3. Use a middle man. A middle man is a trusted member that you can send the money to, and also have the seller send the item to. If the middle man sees that there are no problems they will forward the money, and item to their respective places. The extra shipping is usually covered by the buyer, but any arrangements can be made. This is highly recommended when the seller has no reputation, posts, or is new.

4. Never buy anything without posted pictures of the working item. If they are a new member ask for pictures with their name, and date next to the item. Even if the posts are deleted after the sale they can be brought back to present as evidence if you get scammed. Everything on this forum is backed up.

5. Check out the Trades Feedback & Dispute Resolution of this forum. This section is loaded with good, and bad reviews of the dealings between members. If you don't find the member's name you can make a thread in that section, and ask if some members have dealt with the seller in the past. Or ask a few Vets what are their opinions about the member in question.

6. Always check the reputation of the member on their profile page. Also check how long they have been a member, and how many posts they have posted during their time here. There are no guarantees here, but if you have a member that's been here a year, with over 500 posts, and a good reputation, chances are you can trust them. If you have a member that just joined, has no reputation, and a handful of posts, use extreme caution. Never buy anything from a member with no posts that PMs you. If the seller is reluctant to comply with any of the steps above, walk away.


Fraud on the internet is illegal, and a felony in the US. Always report any instances of fraud to the Internet Crime Complaint Center, and then the sellers local police station, and postal office.

Lastly, if it sounds to good to be true, it often is. Remember talk is cheap, on the internet its free. Don't be enticed by the "Deal of a lifetime". If you have a seller reluctant to work with you at any point, than take your money else where.

Be safe, and good luck.

TJ

Edit: Not a step, but a warning when paying up front for work done here, and in real life.

To the buyer,

One definitely has to be careful when paying up front for something to be built. If you're dealing with a builder who required full payment up front because they couldn't cover the build costs otherwise, then you're probably dealing with someone who doesn't have much of a financial cushion or margin to get them out of trouble if something goes wrong. And things have gone wrong many times here. Even to the best of the builders.

Deposits are different because it is common to take a deposit on custom work, but if someone says they need the full price in advance for a long time frame project, that should set off alarm bells for a prudent buyer. Refer to step 2 above.

To the seller,

Trying to make a living here by selling items or custom work that has not been created has failed numerous times here, on a epic scale at times. Valuable members have had their reputations lost because of poor financial planning. So if you dont think it can happen to you, you are sadly mistaken. If you are not financially prepared to cover any extra costs occurred from unexpected hurdles, then you should not be offering items or custom work. This includes Group Buys, custom parts/units, and complete builds. If you are commissioned, communication is a must, even if you dont hear from the buyer for long periods. Always keep your client in the loop and send updates of your progress at regular intervals. If an issue comes up the buyer will be more understanding. If you find yourself getting too deep, stop, and try to work out a refund situation. You can only dig a hole so deep before it finally buries you.

This should be mandatory reading for all new members...
and a few of the not so new members....

You couldn't have made it any clearer T_J....
This should be stickied in the Welcome section....


Jerry

Thanks Jerry.

I dont know if it should be moved. More new members lurk here than the welcome section.

Yeah... you have a point.....
I'll aim them to this thread when I welcome
new members to the forum...


Jerry

Thanks Jerry!!

The second one helps me a lot. I never know that untill I see this. I appreciate this. Thank you Tech_Junkie.

Anytime.

Yeah a lot of people dont know that for some reason. When dealing with money you have to read all the fine print.

Thanks for posting this T_J. I'm sure alot of people will learn from this.

and in my INDEX you go.....

I am honored, sir.

very good! I vote for sticky!

You have to PM C0ldshadow to get it stickied.

This definately should be stickied! I will PM Coldshadow for you...

Stickied IN the b/s/t Section, although many do not read the stickies. I vote until it gets sticked(which it most def. should) that we bump this thread to the top at least once a day. Seems like every other day somebodys getting scammed on here nowadays.

Scams are definitely picking up. I should of compiled this long ago.

Yep, I feel like this should get spammed all over the place in signatures, and however else. It would be really cool, if in EVERY B/S/T section thread, if this thread was linked at the top of the page right above the beginning of the thread somehow.


EDIT: +1= from 207-208

And I remember when someone told me I was wrong for saying there are more scams happening on here these days than previous years...(I know you didn't say that, T_J)

Very good list, I don't see what else could be added that isn't covered. I also don't think it would hurt to have this stickied in more than one place...

Thanks for the rep, but seriously guys I dont need anymore rep. All this information is out there, I just threw it in one thread.

I rarely find anything that deserves +rep anymore, because this is good, I felt your reputation should dually note this thread, as a great one. And many won't take the trouble to find the information even though it is there.

All the "newbs"( I hate that word) see there 1W lasers and go OMGGGGGOOODDDD GIMME GIMME GIMME HERES MY MONEY!!!!

Hey HeY, STICKIE!!! My first.

I wan to dank my posse...

Jake to the GT
The big LB
LD...in da house
Jeffrey D, and 00....my dogs yo
3Z...iz ez
ani...fo shizle

An all da rest of my pound fo kicking it wid us.

Respect!

I out, peace.

Word to your mother!

I just wanted to point out that delivery confirmation and signature confirmation are different things.
Delivery confirmation allows you to check the shipping number on the courier's website to see if it was delivered or not. Delivery confirmation does not require a signature.

As I stated in the other thread, unless the buyer OPTS for signature confirmation, and makes you use it, assuming he pays for it, then delivery confirmation is the next best thing. As long as it gets to the address they want me to ship something to, and they don't want to pay the extra $2 for signature confirmation, then I have done everything I can.

Of course if they ask and pay for it, then both parties are gauranteed.

If they don't want it, or are too cheap, as long as it gets to their designated address, I have done my job

But you are correct RA, I was just stating my thoughts on the matter

Fixed. Thanks RA.

Heh, but not all the countries gives you the same services ..... as example, we don't have any service like "delivery confirmation only", here in Italy, it's available only as extra service on a tracked mail ..... you can send a standard letter (envelopes only, boxes costs much more), called "posta prioritaria", also if it have no priority , for from 3.30 Euro (less than 50 grams) to 25 Euro (from 1 to 2 Kg), with no confirmations at all (you send, and *maybe* the destination receive it) ..... if you want a tracking number or a deliver confirmation, the only service is "raccomandata" (tracked mail), that go from 7.30 Euro (less than 50 grams) to 29 Euro (1 Kg) for the tracking service only (no confirmation), or with 0.75 Euro extra, you can also receive the delivery confirmation, but NOT only it (i mean, you can ask for the delivery confirmation ONLY if you pay for a tracked mail, NOT for a standard mail like in the USA)

And, as far as i know, some countries don't have also tracked mail services .....

Anyway, the points you mentioned are very important, and if only more peoples will observe them, we may have much less scammers that can do their "work" with success

BTW, about cash sent through letters, i asked my postal office, cause i remembered i had read something about it, times ago, and got a confirmation ..... is already 2 years that here is prohibited to send ANY cash for ANY reason, in letters or envelopes, through postal system ..... and other than this, if money become found inside letters, it's seized, an internal investigation is started against the sender office, and if found that the postal office employee was knowing that the content of the letter was cash, it become fired (this cause, here, in the past, too much money was stolen from mails).