Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (Official info release from Laserglow)

[Tech_Junkie]

I dont see why people are freaking out over private sales. The US has simular laws, and people are selling lasers left and right. Plus this is a US web site. I dont think Canada has the right to monitor it. Not legally anyway.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

Hand-held lasers or laser pointers may cause serious vision damage if used improperly - Health Canada Advisory 2011-07-26

Sorry, the act makes it clear that portable lasers
Class iiiB and IV need operational licences technically.
Nowhere is there a word outright ban.
I for one would take a certificate just to keep my hobby.
The article also mentions that these laser aren't pointers, that's
A NSs kind of statement. No sh!t Sherlock.
Canadian laws are what we're talking about,
Canada has the right to monitor anything going from and entering
It's boarders.
Again making un-enforceable laws is a waste of money.
This is kind of a waste, because High power lasers needed safety
Regulatory conrolls well before this act came into existence.
US laws different story.

 

[Justin]

Correct.
As a company you must follow the regulations,
However when it comes to teachers/instructors and hobbyists
this act doesn't partain to us.
I will ask. Pretty sure I know what the answer will n
be.

You are incorrect. The Act specifies that nobody may make available to the public a hazardous device of any kind. Therefore, if you build one, as a hobbyist, and sell it or give it away, you are in violation of the Act.

 

[Justin]

Justin, the question on my mind since this issue came up as been: "is LaserGlow in any danger of being significantly affected by these laws?". In other words, how badly does this cut LG's sales, does it promp a price restructuring, does it threaten operability, etc. I have long term plans to buy from you guys, heh, and I don't want anything to come in the way with them! I have no idea what your client base looks like, were canadian consumers a major part?

Portable laser sales to Canadians make up a very small portion of our business. The impact on Laserglow will not be noticeable.

 

[Justin]

Hand-held lasers or laser pointers may cause serious vision damage if used improperly - Health Canada Advisory 2011-07-26

Sorry, the act makes it clear that portable lasers
Class iiiB and IV need operational licences technically.
Nowhere is there a word outright ban.
I for one would take a certificate just to keep my hobby.

Look, once you've had a 4-hour-long meeting with two Consumer Product Safety Officers from Health Canada, then you are entitled to give me your personal interpretation of the Act. I am passing along information and interpretations which I received directly from the Federal Government. The link that you have quoted here is not the CCPSA, to which I am referring. Overall, you are not adding anything to this discussion and you are confusing the issue.

There is no certificate that you can acquire which will make you a non-consumer, unless you become a CLSO and get a job at a photonics company. I understand that you may not like the Act, but purposefully misinterpreting it will not make it go away. The regulations, as I stated them, were communicated to me, in person, by an Officer of the Government of Canada.

Also, yes, it looks like kits are covered in the definition of a "consumer product". So, no kits. Health Canada/Customs may not clue in right away, but importing or selling kits for high-powered portable lasers would appear to violate the Act. You've been warned!

 

[rangedunits]

These regulations are new as of June 2011.

Didn't Know Untill now.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

You are incorrect. The Act specifies that nobody may make available to the public a hazardous device of any kind. Therefore, if you build one, as a hobbyist, and sell it or give it away, you are in violation of the Act.

HERE IS THE ACT IN LAW>
AGAIN READ CAREFULLY.

The law pertains to the packaging of devices. Appropriate safety labeling has been done.
Some laser companies are shipping IIIB devices labeled as Class IIa .. etc.
Knowingly sell a dangerous product without appropriately labelling the product as such putting the public at risk. Microwaves, UHF, lasers, Gamma Radiation X-rays... etc.
This is the primary target.

I posted the full act so that all can see. I think we need to take a look at it carefully before jumping to conclusions that the sky is falling.

RESTRICTION ON APPLICATION OF ACT
Marginal noteevices and vehicles to which Act not to apply

3. This Act does not apply to
(a) a radiation emitting device that is designed primarily for the production of nuclear energy within the meaning of the Nuclear Safety and Control Act; or
(b) a motor vehicle within the meaning of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act.
R.S., 1985, c. R-1, s. 3; 1997, c. 9, s. 121.
PROHIBITIONS
Marginal note:Sale, lease, importation

4. Except as authorized by regulations made under paragraph 13(1)(c), no person shall sell, lease or import into Canada a radiation emitting device if the device
(a) does not comply with the standards, if any, prescribed under paragraph 13(1)(b) and applicable thereto; or
(b) creates a risk to any person of genetic or personal injury, impairment of health or death from radiation by reason of the fact that it
(i) does not perform according to the performance characteristics claimed for it,
(ii) does not accomplish its claimed purpose, or
(iii) emits radiation that is not necessary in order for it to accomplish its claimed purpose.
R.S., c. 34(1st Supp.), s. 4; 1984, c. 23, s. 2.
Marginal noteeception

5. (1) No person shall label, package or advertise a radiation emitting device in a manner that is false, misleading or deceptive or is likely to create an erroneous impression regarding its design, construction, performance, intended use, character, value, composition, merit or safety.
Marginal note:Limitation

(2) Subsection (1) applies only in relation to representations relating to the emission of radiation.
Marginal note:Regulations re labelling, etc.

(3) No person shall fail to comply with the regulations respecting the labelling, packaging or advertising of radiation emitting devices.
R.S., c. 34(1st Supp.), s. 5; 1984, c. 23, s. 2.
NOTIFICATION
Marginal note:Minister to be notified of non-compliance or defect

6. (1) Where a person who is the manufacturer or importer of a radiation emitting device becomes aware, after the device has left the person’s premises, of the fact that the device
(a) does not comply with the standards, if any, prescribed under paragraph 13(1)(b) and applicable thereto, or
(b) creates a risk to any person of genetic or personal injury, impairment of health or death from radiation by reason of the fact that it
(i) does not perform according to the performance characteristics claimed for it,
(ii) does not accomplish its claimed purpose, or
(iii) emits radiation that is not necessary in order for it to accomplish its claimed purpose,
the person shall forthwith notify the Minister.
Marginal note:Minister may order notification

(2) Where the Minister determines,
(a) after being notified pursuant to subsection (1), or
(b) through the Minister’s own investigation, research, inspection or testing,
that a radiation emitting device falls under paragraph (1)(a) or (b), the manufacturer or importer of the device shall, if directed by the Minister, notify such persons as the Minister requires of the defect or non-compliance, by such method, giving such details and within such time period as are specified by the Minister.
R.S., c. 34(1st Supp.), s. 6; 1984, c. 23, s. 2.

 

[Justin]

THAT IS THE WRONG ACT. PAY ATTENTION. The new regulations are under the Canada Consumer Product Safety Act (CCPSA). I linked to it in my original post. You are not paying enough attention.

 

[lasersbee]

Post #34 was also the only thing (regulation) I found with the
word Laser in it...

Is that attached to the regulation in your 1st post...:thinking:

I still can't find Health Canada's definition in writing of what a
"Portable Laser" is... We all know what it is but I'd like to see
how it is defined by the Feds...

BTW... I'm not questioning what you stated. I'm just looking
for a bit of additional info...:beer:


EDIT....
If hand held Lasers can no longer be imported into Canada...
how will you get your Lasers into stock...:thinking:


Jerry

 

[Justin]

Laserglow can still import high-powered portable lasers because our primary commercial activity involves these devices and we have a clearly-defined commercial application for them which cannot be achieved without them. (Namely, to sell them, either domestically or internationally.) We are not a "consumer", so the CCPSA doesn't apply to our imports.

The CCPSA does not clearly indicate "lasers". It classifies "dangerous goods", and Health Canada has made the determination that high-powered portable lasers are "dangerous goods". I'm not sure that they have published a list detailing every product which is affected, but I have it in writing from Health Canada that this is their interpretation.

It is worth noting that the CCPSA applies to all "consumer products" and there is a short list in Schedule 1 that lists product categories it does not apply to. (Drugs, tobacco, medical equipment, etc.) They have intentionally made it apply to as many products as possible. Once again, if you're looking for loopholes, there are none. If you try to use some harebrained interpretation of the Act to utilize a perceived loophole, you're probably in violation of the Act, because your interpretation is probably wrong unless you're a lawyer who specializes in regulatory compliance. (In which case, I might have a job for you.)

 

[rhd]

It sounds like the change here is one of policy, not technicality. The CCPSA defines a "dangerous good" broadly. Technically, a knife might be able to fall within their definition, if it was so incredibly dangerous as to be "unreasonably so".

What may be new, is that Health Canada has apparently decided to begin interpreting handheld lasers as an "unreasonable hazard" as per the act.

Now, you probably would expect to be able to find some sort of proclamation to this effect somewhere. A notice, or press statement, etc. But it's potentially not a change in law you're looking for, but rather a change in attitude. IE, they're saying "we're going to start treating XYZ things as falling within this definition we have over here in this act".

Justin - more or less correct?

 

[ARG]

Justin said there were no loop holes. If a company like Laserglow isnt going to sell handhelds in Canada anymore, I'm sure there are no ways around it.

Looks pretty cut and dry to me.

I just realized, there goes my dream of getting a 10mW 589nm Rigel from LaserGlow

 

[lasersbee]

Laserglow can still import high-powered portable lasers because our primary commercial activity involves these devices and we have a clearly-defined commercial application for them which cannot be achieved without them. (Namely, to sell them, either domestically or internationally.) We are not a "consumer", so the CCPSA doesn't apply to our imports.

The CCPSA does not clearly indicate "lasers". It classifies "dangerous goods", and Health Canada has made the determination that high-powered portable lasers are "dangerous goods". I'm not sure that they have published a list detailing every product which is affected, but I have it in writing from Health Canada that this is their interpretation.

It is worth noting that the CCPSA applies to all "consumer products" and there is a short list in Schedule 1 that lists product categories it does not apply to. (Drugs, tobacco, medical equipment, etc.) They have intentionally made it apply to as many products as possible. Once again, if you're looking for loopholes, there are none. If you try to use some harebrained interpretation of the Act to utilize a perceived loophole, you're probably in violation of the Act, because your interpretation is probably wrong unless you're a lawyer who specializes in regulatory compliance. (In which case, I might have a job for you.)

Like I said I like to be informed and only wanted some additional
info..

There was no search for a loophole since I don't Manufacture...
Sell or Resell Lasers of any kind...

I do buy a Pointer once in a while for my collection and I do buy
Class IV Lasers in Labby and raw LD Format for our R&D Testing
and LPM calibration needs.

So A loophole would not be required by myself or my company..


Jerry

 

[Tech_Junkie]

I just realized, there goes my dream of getting a 10mW 589nm Rigel from LaserGlow

Have some one in the US buy it, take it apart, and send you the pieces separately.

 

[Sevensixtwoby39]

How is that possible though. I just picked up my 200mw laser at my local post office.?

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

How is that possible though. I just picked up my 200mw laser at my local post office.?

This may come as a surprise to you, but not every package gets inspected by customs.