Thermite

[crazyspaz]

Noted. Glas you posted that, the thermite i made a while back i just stored in a big ceramic pot in the garage. Copper thermite would be something i would make a small amount of, and use right after i make it.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

right.

Just wanted to reiterate since some members on this forum
are young and might not have any experience
with proper methods for handling pyro comps or other energetic materials.
We don't want badly burned or dead forum members.

I have had my fair share of close calls when I was younger.
I'm lucky to have kept all my digits.

 

[Hemlock_Mike]

Seoul --- Same for me!!!
Hope you can come to Mason City, IA
next August for PGI convention.
HMike

 

[Seoul_lasers]

I would love to come...
Stock up :drool:

 

[The Lightning Stalker]

Hmm, too bad my "local" pottery supply store is over 100mi away.

 

[DashApple]

I got over 5Kg of Fe2O3 for about £10 a while back from a pottery place .

This was copper oxide thermite I made a while back , as said its dangerous stuff .

32 grams copper oxide thermite - YouTube

I would like to try tin dioxide thermite again to get tin xD , but its expensive .

 

[Seoul_lasers]

I got over 5Kg of Fe2O3 for about £10 a while back from a pottery place .

This was copper oxide thermite I made a while back , as said its dangerous stuff .

32 grams copper oxide thermite - YouTube

I would like to try tin dioxide thermite again to get tin xD , but its expensive .

Hmm... Tin Dioxide... also called stannic oxide (SnO2) :thinking:

Well it is sold as commercial polish for lapidary and cutting stone countertops.
It should be relatively inexpensive.

http://www.mamasminerals.com/Tin-Oxide-Rock-Polishing-Powder-1-Lb-Jar_p_4437.html

 

[styropyro]

I played with a lot of thermite as a kid.

I always used a KNO3/S/Al primer to get the reaction started. It always worked like a charm! I've tried CuO thermite which actually gave me explosive results.

I always wanted to try thermite using an alkali metal like sodium as the reducing agent. I hear you can even separate silicon from SiO2 (sand) using sodium or potassium metal.

I also hear chromium thermite is another cool reaction.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

I played with a lot of thermite as a kid.

I always used a KNO3/S/Al primer to get the reaction started. It always worked like a charm! I've tried CuO thermite which actually gave me explosive results.

I always wanted to try thermite using an alkali metal like sodium as the reducing agent. I hear you can even separate silicon from SiO2 (sand) using sodium or potassium metal.

I also hear chromium thermite is another cool reaction.

Never heard of using an Alkali metal to reduce SiO2, however that'd
be extremely expensive to accomplish, unless you
Managed to use Lithium from a CR2 cell or something.
I have managed to make Silicon from SiO2+Al/Mg+S.
Sulphur lowers the initiation temperature of the reaction only.
Once initiated this burns with an amazing blue light which is in due in part by the sulphur burring. Really strong odor so do this experiment away from whiney neighbours.
Lumps if pure Si can be found at the bottom of the reaction vessel.
There's a wonderful video online showing how
to do this.


Actually a really interesting ("Thermite") video explains the production of Sodium metal in a similar reaction
to CuO + Al/Mg using NaO + Mg. This reaction produces a considerable amount of Sodium due to the high heat involved.
this reaction completely sidesteps the reactivity series due to the high heat involved.

I haven't tried this out yet, however many people have been successful in producing (Lithium, Strontium, Barium, Calcium, Potassium) using this basic principle.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-Sodium-Metal-HD-Video-Tutorial

/


On another side note I'll do the sodium reaction long before I'll ever think of doing a reaction with Chromium Dioxide or any other Chromium compounds since they are so incredibly toxic.
Another reason why that famous decomposition reaction with Ammonium Dichromate (volcano) is no long done in schools.
There is strong evidence to suggest that even short/moderate term exposure to CrO6 does severe DNA damage.
I've had a family member (uncle) die from a extremely rare aggressive form of ALS. No one in our family carries genes for ALS and no previous history in our family.
My uncle was a major Car restorer that handled a lot of Chrome plated
auto parts. He also did his own Chrome plating using Chromic Acid.

 

[Atomicrox]

Plain old mild steel should work about the best. Things like old gas pipes, rebar, rods, and
angle. Uncoated nuts and bolts should also work well, but not as well. I take back what I
said earlier about cast. Some types of cast will contain high concentrations of nickel and
chromium. Stay away from tool steel, spring steel, and just about everything else, especially
stainless. It has A LOT of nickel and chromium. Good luck getting stainless to rust anyway.
Car bodies are iffy. Who knows what is in them. Anything that is structurally welded to
something is probably mild steel. Just avoid the weld areas themselves.

You can convert Fe02 to Fe03 by heating it. Oxygen has to get on it while it's hot. If you can
produce an oxidizing flame, that will work the best. A regular profane torch does not do this.

I'm doing it with rebar right now but the "ooze" has far more green/white flakes than with nails. It does look right though, after filtering/heating/grinding. Do you guys think this is a problem?

I'm heating it inside a pan on the stove. The flame looks oxidizing but it's not touching the oxide so it probably doesn't matter. It does convert the black thing to red/brown...

Actually coming back to making
Metal oxides, it's really not cost effective
and you'll find that the local pottery supply
store has pure Fe2O3 for sale as a glaze colorant.
Same goes with CuO (black copper oxide).

Not all countries have a DIY culture... TBH I don't think I've ever seen a pottery shop (granted that might just be ignorance on my part).

Never heard of using an Alkali metal to reduce SiO2, however that'd
be extremely expensive to accomplish, unless you
Managed to use Lithium from a CR2 cell or something.
I have managed to make Silicon from SiO2+Al/Mg+S.
Sulphur lowers the initiation temperature of the reaction only.
Once initiated this burns with an amazing blue light which is in due in part by the sulphur burring. Really strong odor so do this experiment away from whiney neighbours.
Lumps if pure Si can be found at the bottom of the reaction vessel.
There's a wonderful video online showing how
to do this.

Actually a really interesting ("Thermite") video explains the production of Sodium metal in a similar reaction
to CuO + Al/Mg using NaO + Mg. This reaction produces a considerable amount of Sodium due to the high heat involved.
this reaction completely sidesteps the reactivity series due to the high heat involved.

I haven't tried this out yet, however many people have been successful in producing (Lithium, Strontium, Barium, Calcium, Potassium) using this basic principle.

How to Make Sodium Metal [HD Video Tutorial]

On another side note I'll do the sodium reaction long before I'll ever think of doing a reaction with Chromium Dioxide or any other Chromium compounds since they are so incredibly toxic.
Another reason why that famous decomposition reaction with Ammonium Dichromate (volcano) is no long done in schools.
There is strong evidence to suggest that even short/moderate term exposure to CrO6 does severe DNA damage.
I've had a family member (uncle) die from a extremely rare aggressive form of ALS. No one in our family carries genes for ALS and no previous history in our family.
My uncle was a major Car restorer that handled a lot of Chrome plated
auto parts. He also did his own Chrome plating using Chromic Acid.

Those are really interesting! I've been wanting to make sodium metal for a long time but never got around to it.


Edit: 808th post! IR 4tw!

 

[The Lightning Stalker]

I'm doing it with rebar right now but the "ooze" has far more green/white flakes than with nails. It does look right though, after filtering/heating/grinding. Do you guys think this is a problem?

Only if it's bad enough to make ignition difficult and erratic burn characteristics. It sounds like
you have some dirty rebar.

The white is the aluminum and possibly zinc oxide. It wasn't galvanized, was it? The green
nickel and chromium oxides. Any dark glassy material would be the former mixed with
silicon or Si02.

I'm heating it inside a pan on the stove. The flame looks oxidizing but it's not touching the oxide so it probably doesn't matter. It does convert the black thing to red/brown...

That is one way to do it. The pan must get pretty hot!

 

[Atomicrox]

I meant green/white stuff during the electrolysis, not the thermite reaction. Haven't tried the reaction yet with this oxide, only with the one made from nails.

The rebar was dirty, got it from a construction site. I washed it and also threw away the first result of the electrolysis hoping to remove any external impurities.

It didn't look galvanized but I'm not sure.

Got the pan to at least 350ºC (my IR thermometer only goes that far), the oxide should dehydrate at 200ºC according to the wiki. The poor pan is getting warped

 

[The Lightning Stalker]

I meant green/white stuff during the electrolysis, not the thermite reaction.

Okay, then that could be copper oxide from your wires if they were in contact with the water.
If not then it is nickel/chromium oxides. Those are the only ingredients in steel I can think of
that would turn green.

The rebar was dirty, got it from a construction site. I washed it and also threw away the first result of the electrolysis hoping to remove any external impurities.

Yeah clean off all the dirt and concrete you can. That will snuff out the reaction.

It didn't look galvanized but I'm not sure.

Rebar usually isn't, since the concrete inhibits rust, but it has probably happened before.

Got the pan to at least 350ºC (my IR thermometer only goes that far), the oxide should dehydrate at 200ºC according to the wiki. The poor pan is getting warped

It will have to get much hotter to convert into black oxide. Some kind of refractory or a
crucible would work better. The oxide should be in a nice thin loose layer.

 

[Flaminpyro]

Got any pictures ?

 

[Atomicrox]

I left the wires at least 1cm above the water level. They are oxidizing a little bit but I don't think I could avoid that.

I'm trying to convert into red oxide (Fe2O3), which should make a hotter reaction.

After some superficial research I'm inclined to believe the green/white stuff is Iron(II) hydroxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - not sure if that's a problem, probably not.

Here's my current setup with the rebar:

This is the result from my previous rebar batch, after filtering and heating. There are some visible impurities but not too many:

This is my previous setup with a huge nail - the one I did the thermite test with. It had less of the green/white stuff and more of an "earthy" look:

 

[The Lightning Stalker]

That is interesting. Along the lines of the wiki article, there is probably a lot of sulfur in the rebar. Don't forget to wash it after reacting to get out all the salt.