Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums - discuss green laser pointers, blue laser pointers, and all types of lasers

Thanks for supporting LPF!

Avery's Instagram

Many questions about first 9mm 445nm build!

DTR

Well-known member
LPF Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
5,711
Points
113
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Just want to make this clear as I got a PM from brunes01 thinking his driver would become damaged if he did not sink it.

The X-drive in these modules have been shown to be capable of a good 60-90 second duty cycle on two cells with no heatsinking at all. If you use three cells you will want to sink it as that would decrease the duty cycle dramatically and most hosts that take 3X18650's have plenty of room to find a good place to sink the driver.

The X-drive employs a very solid thermal protection system if your run them longer than 90 seconds without heatsinking which prevents any possible damage to the driver and I have certainly not seen any longevity issues with this driver.

Heatsinking the driver will extend out that duty cycle but in an 18650 sized host like the one he is looking at I usually suggest to stick to about a 60 second max duty cycle for the sake of the diode anyway so that would be the bottleneck as apposed to the driver.

I have been selling them like this for quite some time and have yet to see a driver die or get damaged from heat or even pretty much anything else except reverse polarity. These things are tanks compared to other driver I have used in the past and I really have not had any reports of customers being unsatisfied with the drivers duty cycle on the unit as it comes.;)

With that said I would if you can with the setup you have sink the driver to the host body and you feel capable doing it that is a great idea but from what I have seen there is no dangers to your driver if you do not.:beer:
 



ApexProxy

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
1,772
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Lazeerer(maker of the X-Drive) suggested to me that it is best to heatsink them over 1.8A so I am just passing along that information. He also told me that the 2.2A one I bought from him needed to be heatsinked. Its likely they would be able to handle it but its still what he suggested and what I suggested.
 

DTR

Well-known member
LPF Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
5,711
Points
113
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Yep I am not knocking the suggestion as it is always a good one and I will always suggest to do so if possible but I did not want anyone to think their driver would melt or explode if they don't as he seemed very worried about his driver in the PM I received. At 1.8A and over these drivers can not run continuously without heatsinking and the higher you go the shorter the duty cycle will get so it does extend the capabilities of the driver to heatsink it. Anyway maybe Lazeerer will check in and give his thoughts on it.:beer:
 

ApexProxy

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
1,772
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Thinking back on it, its probably best for him to just roll without a driver heatsink. It doesn't seem he is equipped to heatsink it and that would mean he would need to buy more stuff. He is probably best just sticking to a reasonable duty cycle and not worrying about it. I wouldn't mind hearing from Lazeerer though. Heh I have been trying to get his attention to grab a few X-Boosts anyway :p
 

DTR

Well-known member
LPF Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
5,711
Points
113
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Yea we all keep him so busy these days it is hard for him to get any free time to roam the forums. I would like to pick up some as well for the new PL520's.
 

ApexProxy

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
1,772
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Agreed. If I get a hold of him I'll let him know you want some as well.
 

brunes01

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
107
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Hi guys!

First of all I have to say I didn`t pm DTR, because I didn`t believe what you were suggesting!

I just want to get as much information as I can to make it proper and durable!

I agree there will be no need of having it run for longer than 60 seconds. And it seems to me it will not be a problem if it will run a little longer from time to time!

But when both of you agree, that it`s a good idea to extra heatsink the driver to make it more durable, I won`t back down to do it!

"To heatsink them you need thermal epoxy and a small piece of metal and then epoxy the metal piece to the large computer ship that you can see in that picture."

Is that exactly what you meant by "sink the driver to the host body"?


Greetings brunes01
 

ricktrent4

New member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
487
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Did you solve the small issue with the two drivers switching out of sync? I noticed while you were mode switching on the other video one driver ended up on high and the other was still on strobe.

Personally, for a dual diode build I would forgo the multimode to avoid that issue entirely.

yes as long as they are started at the same time
 

ApexProxy

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
1,772
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Is that exactly what you meant by "sink the driver to the host body"?

Its not essential but suggested. To bridge the driver to the host itself is the best method but if you cannot reach the host for any number of reasons you can just add a chunk of metal to the main IC and that at least adds a reasonable heat buffer if you use copper. Bridging it to the diode module itself also helps add a pathway for heat to escape but isn't nearly as good as bridging to the host since that way you can get heat from the diode. As long as you use a non-conducting thermal epoxy like Arctic Alumina you can use more than you really need and sort of cover the side of the driver with it and use the epoxy itself to bridge to a nearby surface.

As I recall you said you were using a SL stainless steel host which means that heatsinking the driver to the host is close to impossible with the driver being attached to the diode so your only option may be to just add a piece of metal to the driver for a buffer. On that note, The last time I tried running an X-Drive attached to the diode in a SL S4 host there wasn't enough room between where the diode module sits and the driver pill for the whole rig to fit at all and I had to drill out the inside of the pill. The extended heatsink may remedy that issue though, I am unsure. Otherwise I believe Gary sells drilled pills still(one of my suggestions to him lol).
 
Last edited:

brunes01

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
107
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Hi!

Just to get it right I have attached the picture again!

So first option is to heat sink the driver with a tiny plate of copper that will be "clued" to the chip with themal epoxy like you suggestet before.

I think i understood that!


But I think I didn`t understand what exactly was meant by "bridging" the driver to the host.

Does bridging mean to cover the whole driver in thermal epoxy, so that it will have contact with the host? And what host? The one from the lasermodule (the silver tube in the picture) or the steel host itself?


If the steel host itself was meant I still can`t imagine how this should work?

The heatsink I will get with the host has an overall lenght of 1,24 " (31,5 mm) and as far as I have seen the whole module like the upper one in the picture will be 30 mm long. So the whole thing will be surrounded by the copper heatsink.

Maybe those are some stupid questions, but I really want to understand it, so please be kind!:angel:
 

Attachments

  • modulewithx-drive.PNG
    modulewithx-drive.PNG
    128.7 KB · Views: 75
Last edited:

lazeerer

New member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
3,655
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Hey Guys Just to be clear here.

It is a Good Idea to heatsink the Driver Above 1.8A NOT because it will damage the driver but to gain continuous run time.

To be Clear Nothing will happen to the driver if you dont use a heatsink. It wont blow up,LOL or die on you.

The X-Drive has a Special Protection built in that is in addition to the one that comes with the main IC.

I made a video to show you what this Extra feature is.:)


Alot of people get confused with this subject. Alot of people think when they hit the Heat protection mode on a driver that this is where it cause damage.

When really that is the safe point where its telling itself to shut down so that it doesn't continue heating up and reaching that unsafe point and causing damage.

The X-Drive will never allow you to get even close to that Unsafe point due to that Extra heat protection i add to shut itself down to let it self cool off.

Most drivers will just pulse on you to warn you and try to maintain temp but i took it a little further and add the shut down cool down cycle.:wave:

So Again to be clear we heatsink our drivers to gain run time not so that they dont become damaged.

Like i said in the video, Just like we heatsink our laser diodes and the larger the heatsink the more run time we get its basically the same idea with drivers as if we add a heatsink to the driver it will be able to run longer due to the extra Mass heatsink.

However diodes do not have a Protection mode to shut themselves off on there own to prevent them from overheating so you have to manually do it and keep close eye on it.

With the X-Drive it will shut itself off well before it ever reaches "To Hot stage" So there is no worries.:)

SO heatsinking a driver simple put is to get a longer run time Not so they dont become damaged. Thats what the protection modes are for.:)

:beer:


brunes01@

What is the host you are using.?

If its not a massive host then your diode is going to heat up well before the driver does.

You will not need a heatsink unless you plain on running the laser diode longer then a duty cycle of ~2 minutes or so. Which my best is your not going to.

If you do want to add a heatsink then adding a little thermal adhesive to the bottom black chip and a small piece of aluminum or copper will do the trick.:) You dont need much for this driver.:)



:)
 
Last edited:

jander6442

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
3,219
Points
83
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Hey Guys Just to be clear here.

It is a Good Idea to heatsink the Driver Above 1.8A NOT because it will damage the driver but to gain continuous run time.

To be Clear Nothing will happen to the driver if you dont use a heatsink. It wont blow up,LOL or die on you.

The X-Drive has a Special Protection built in that is in addition to the one that comes with the main IC.

I made a video to show you what this Extra feature is.:)


Alot of people get confused with this subject. Alot of people think when they hit the Heat protection mode on a driver that this is where it cause damage.

When really that is the safe point where its telling itself to shut down so that it doesn't continue heating up and reaching that unsafe point and causing damage.

The X-Drive will never allow you to get even close to that Unsafe point due to that Extra heat protection i add to shut itself down to let it self cool off.

Most drivers will just pulse on you to warn you and try to maintain temp but i took it a little further and add the shut down cool down cycle.:wave:

So Again to be clear we heatsink our drivers to gain run time not so that they dont become damaged.

Like i said in the video, Just like we heatsink our laser diodes and the larger the heatsink the more run time we get its basically the same idea with drivers as if we add a heatsink to the driver it will be able to run longer due to the extra Mass heatsink.

However diodes do not have a Protection mode to shut themselves off on there own to prevent them from overheating so you have to manually do it and keep close eye on it.

With the X-Drive it will shut itself off well before it ever reaches "To Hot stage" So there is no worries.:)

SO heatsinking a driver simple put is to get a longer run time Not so they dont become damaged. Thats what the protection modes are for.:)

:beer:


brunes01@

What is the host you are using.?

If its not a massive host then your diode is going to heat up well before the driver does.

You will not need a heatsink unless you plain on running the laser diode longer then a duty cycle of ~2 minutes or so. Which my best is your not going to.

If you do want to add a heatsink then adding a little thermal adhesive to the bottom black chip and a small piece of aluminum or copper will do the trick.:) You dont need much for this driver.:)



:)



Thank you for your work Angelos. You are an asset to the forum:bowdown:
 

brunes01

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
107
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Hi!

Well that`s great news!

I will be using this host I already ordered:

DIY Stainless Steel Host Assembly, Extended and Tapered Heat Sink, Unmarked

And a 9mm 445nm diode with a 2,1 A x-drive.

DTR suggested a runtime not longer than 60 seconds for the sake of the diode!

So when the driver shuts down, let`s say after 90 seconds without heatsinking, that will be a good thing and there is no need for me to heatsink it.
 

lazeerer

New member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
3,655
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

Thank you for your work Angelos. You are an asset to the forum:bowdown:

Iam trying to be active on the open forum but damn its hard to keep up.:bowdown:

Hi!

Well that`s great news!

I will be using this host I already ordered:

DIY Stainless Steel Host Assembly, Extended and Tapered Heat Sink, Unmarked

And a 9mm 445nm diode with a 2,1 A x-drive.

DTR suggested a runtime not longer than 60 seconds for the sake of the diode!

So when the driver shuts down, let`s say after 90 seconds without heatsinking, that will be a good thing and there is no need for me to heatsink it.

2.1A with a host that size 60 second is a good Duty cycle.

For 60 second you dont have to worry about the driver getting to hot.

You should be OK at 90 second on the driver from a cold start. But i would stick to the 60 seconds Duty cycle as recommended.

90 second in that package laser build might just be too much for the over all build.

Thats a pretty decent size heatsink in that host out of copper but if i was selling the laser today i would say 60 seconds even if the driver was heatsinked.

If you do run the build or driver to hard and it gets to hot it will just go into its protection mode like above in the video to protect it. But my guess is by then the build would need to be shut off anyway.
 
Last edited:

brunes01

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
107
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

So would you agree that there is no need to heatsink the driver in this build, because it would be wise anyway to not run it longer than 60 seconds to avoid any damage on the diode?

By the way I want to thank all of you for giving me advice and support! :bowdown:

That really is a great forum with a great community! :thanks:

Time for bed I guess! It`s 04:00 am here in Austria! :crackup:
 

ApexProxy

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
1,772
Points
0
Re: New 9mm 445 diodes

That is actually interesting to know about the two protections you put in place on the driver. I especially like the secondary protection that totally cuts power. So far it seems like your driver is one of the few if not only driver that is virtually impervious to overheat. X-Drives were already my favorite drivers hands down but now I have even more reason to like them. Major props for proving your driver is king once again.

Do your X-Boost drivers utilize similar protections?

And yes Brunes forget the heatsink. You would damage your diode way before kicking the drivers protection anyway. I never knew they had such well designed protection nor did I realize it even existed (at least not the standby cooldown mode). It sounds like it would be more hassle for you to do than its worth anyway.
 
Last edited:




Top