Laser gloves now for sale

[Ablaze]

I am pleased that so many people have decided that they want to build a set of their own.

Once I get some free time I plan to create a website where people can post their laser glove designs and how well they turned out, as well as videos of them in use.

EDIT: Site here: http://www.trinaryproducts.com/

Kiyou, as you make these I suggest you keep two things in mind:

• A mini-inverter + 5 green lasers will draw a relatively large amount of power. You will want to make sure the impedance on your power source is relatively low.

• The inverter could also produce a lot of electrical noise which could kill your lasers.

 

[kiyoukan]

1.5-3.0 Volt DC Inverters
That the site that sells both the 1.5V version and the 3V one
ablaze the mini inverter is not for the lasers.
I will use one of my ST-Drives to power the lasers.
The inverter is just for the el-wire.

 

[ObiKwiet]

That sounds like a good plan Kwiet. Very much like my first set. I think it would give you a nice sense of accomplishment to DIY a set like that.

Just a word of advice though: Avoid lithium ion batteries for something like this, they can explode. It sounds like with your budget you would just use a radio shack battery pack anyway and fill it with D cells.

You just have to avoid exceeding the power rating. For five lasers, you certainly would want to double check, but if you are running them at low levels, I think there's a decent chance that it would work, especially if you used two cells.

The trouble with a build like this is that increasing quality rapidly makes the price impractical. For a rave toy, you might find people willing to go up to 200, if it is extremely well received, but even that high is going to alienate a lot of people. Higher than that and I think that you are only going to find a few enthusiasts who are interested, and they tend to DIY anyway. If you alternated the green with cheap red diodes you could bring the price down a lot.

If you could sell something for 50$ that would be the sweet spot. Even if you did a glove with only three lasers, and sold them individually.

 

[Ablaze]

1.5-3.0 Volt DC Inverters
That the site that sells both the 1.5V version and the 3V one
ablaze the mini inverter is not for the lasers.
I will use one of my ST-Drives to power the lasers.
The inverter is just for the el-wire.

I am not familiar with your ST-Drives. The inverter will most likely create electrical noise along the entire line unless you use a separate power source.

Do me a favor and keep track of how much you spend on parts.

 

[kiyoukan]

Yea green lasers are a bit bulky and pricey.
If you wanted to go with some lpc diodes you can get each diode for under 10$ with an aixiz module.
But even if you set them to have a 200mw output and no heat problems they would not be near as bright as the greens.
And still only brings your price down by maybe 75 to 80$ material so it would go from 500 to maybe 400$.
a 200$ retail price could only be done in HUGE order amounts if you bought enough to make 10,000 units yeah maybe you could sell them for that much.
But that would need a huge money source to start up.
Ablaze yes there are 2 power sources if you read up on el wire it need like 110V dc.
So there will be no noise.
Well the prices i have put are going to be very close to spot on.
even if it is a bit cheaper because its a production product you must add money that is not your profit to be set a side for broken units that the supplier wont give you your money back for.

 

[Ablaze]

Thank you for your input Kiwat. A price point that cheap would require mass production and throw-away style parts. The fact is I am currently getting an MBA, and I know something about pricing.

"Cheap" is a market segment, someone else is currently trying to sell a cheap version and from what I can tell, not having much luck with it.

I am not really of the disposition to sell cheap crap that will fall apart after a couple of uses. Imposing more cheap stuff onto this world is not really in my list of goals.

"Quality" is another market segment. This is what I am going for with these. In respect to this particular product it's not really a very viable segment either, since the market is completely unfamiliar with the product and with what would make a "good" laser glove.

To truly sell these in quantity I would have to educate the market, which is a long and expensive process.

 

[ElektroFreak]

You know, I think we had this conversation in your other thread. Frankly, I don't think you have enough experience here to really differential "cheap" from "quality". I mean no disrespect, but to be blunt, you ARE using cheap parts - you're just overpaying for them. I made my point in your other thread, and I think it was met with some agreement.

Assuming the OP is using APC 5mW modules (which are the only kind of green modules that are legal to sell in the US due to the unpredictable nature of simple cavities) then $20-$25 apiece is pretty normal pricing. That's $100 or more just for the green modules. Because of the automatic power control they're a tad more complex than your basic "5mW or thereabouts" modules. And yes, APC modules often look exactly the same as every other brass greenie module.

Then you've got your other assembly materials and associated costs (if any).

Also there is assembly time and effort which the laborer should be paid for (even if the "laborer" is the "developer" and the "business owner" all in one). Then there is paying for the R&D costs, and paying yourself for more time and effort spent developing the product.

Is it really up to you to try to tell someone they're overcharging because you think they paid to much for their parts? Is he paying himself to much for his effort? Who are you to put a price on someone else's effort?

Personally I have no idea what the guy is paying for his parts and I don't care. I DO care about people ripping someone's product apart just because they think they're entitled to. Ablaze's gloves seem perfectly well-made to me, what he wants to charge for them is up to him. It would be different if the product was proven to be shoddy or have problems, but that's not the case here. As with any product from any manufacturer, anyone who doesn't like what they see here can build their own, screw themselves on the cost of their own hard work, find the cheapest, lowest quality parts and finally make no profit at all just so no one here on LPF jumps their ass.

 

[Ablaze]

You know, I think we had this conversation in your other thread. Frankly, I don't think you have enough experience here to really differential "cheap" from "quality". I mean no disrespect, but to be blunt, you ARE using cheap parts - you're just overpaying for them.

lol, rhd I have never seen you not be blunt. The price of my laser modules is just not really the kind of argument I want to debate page after page. I spent weeks, day in and day out, comparing prices and emailing every supplier I could find. The supplier I use meets my qualifications at the cheapest price I have seen anywhere. The supplier in your link charges more for the same product then my supplier does.

You seem to be implying that being in business school makes me less qualified to set my own price then the average consumer. I don't understand the reasoning behind that. Last I checked I am also a consumer.

The fact is that making these is more of a hobby then a business. As a business it will never have a decent ROI.. or at least not in the foreseeable future.

 

[kiyoukan]

RHD and ElektroFreak be nice to each other.

(this is not to turn into a personal attack thread)

i love the idea and look of it but to someone who likes to build his own and only bends over and buy's from someone else when they 100% have to and even then its most the time used. i could never pay that price.
Your close tho.
If you keep working at it you can get the prices down and refine the cost.
This is product number 1, when ever i do that its always the most expensive as that one might have had unforeseen problems that had to be worked out.
Once you build a few you might be able to find a way to keep cost down.
Keep working and building most of us are helpful.
We may be blunt or rude but we are trying to help.

 

[rhd]

lol, rhd I have never seen you not be blunt. The price of my laser modules is just not really the kind of argument I want to debate page after page. I spent weeks, day in and day out, comparing prices and emailing every supplier I could find. The supplier I use meets my qualifications at the cheapest price I have seen anywhere. The supplier in your link charges more for the same product then my supplier does.

You seem to be implying that being in business school makes me less qualified to set my own price then the average consumer. I don't understand the reasoning behind that. Last I checked I am also a consumer.

The fact is that making these is more of a hobby then a business. As a business it will never have a decent ROI.. or at least not in the foreseeable future.

Lol, the MBA comment was only half serious. I've done the business degree thing too - and have enough useless theories, pyramids, flowcharts, and theories of XYZ memorized to get me laughed out of a million board rooms if I actually tried to use them

Ok, lets talk real for a moment, and lets talk about your chosen market segment.

Being realistic about this, if you want to sell the gloves at $700 (or somewhere in that range), it's not totally inconceivable to think that you could find a few niche buyers. But, being realistic about this, you'll need to make them look "sexier". If you want to sell at an up-market price like $700, you need to make these things look unreal. You need to do something ambitious with the design.

I DO NOT think you can differentiate yourself from the $100 competitors on quality alone. You need "sex appeal". Something that will trigger the emotional "I must own that" impulse - and impulse that is (practically speaking, even though people will deny this) a much stronger impulse than the mere desire to pursue quality.

Look at kiyoukan's concept. That's the kind of niche high-end design that reminds me of an Anselmo creation. It strikes me as something that I would *at least consider* paying crap loads of money for, if I had crap loads of money to spend, and wanted something of it's type. With your gloves, I can *see* how they're made, and this removes an element of "awe" from the design. I can see the original glove maker's logo (and it's not a cool logo). The blue webbing isn't sexy, and the colour doesn't match the actual colour of the beams (nor would it likely match the outfit of the wearer).

If you want to target the premium market, then maybe I was wrong for trying to suggest otherwise. But then I think I'm right in encouraging you to really target the premium market. To do so sucessfully, you need to make these things look REALLY sexy.

 

[lasersbee]

Assuming the OP is using APC 5mW modules (which are the only kind of green modules that are legal to sell in the US due to the unpredictable nature of simple cavities) then $20-$25 apiece is pretty normal pricing. That's $100 or more just for the green modules. Because of the automatic power control they're a tad more complex than your basic "5mW or thereabouts" modules. And yes, APC modules often look exactly the same as every other brass greenie module.

Then you've got your other assembly materials and associated costs (if any).

Also there is assembly time and effort which the laborer should be paid for (even if the "laborer" is the "developer" and the "business owner" all in one). Then there is paying for the R&D costs, and paying yourself for more time and effort spent developing the product.

Is it really up to you to try to tell someone they're overcharging because you think they paid to much for their parts? Is he paying himself to much for his effort? Who are you to put a price on someone else's effort?

Personally I have no idea what the guy is paying for his parts and I don't care. I DO care about people ripping someone's product apart just because they think they're entitled to. Ablaze's gloves seem perfectly well-made to me, what he wants to charge for them is up to him. It would be different if the product was proven to be shoddy or have problems, but that's not the case here. As with any product from any manufacturer, anyone who doesn't like what they see here can build their own, screw themselves on the cost of their own hard work, find the cheapest, lowest quality parts and finally make no profit at all just so no one here on LPF jumps their ass.

It doesn't matter what he is paying for the parts... RHD seems to
think that anyone else selling a product that he feels is priced too
high (on his scale) should be forced to reduce their price...
I've seen this modus operandi numerous times since RHD registered
on LPF. Perhaps RHD is just trying to help in his way... that I admit
sometime I don't see...

As I've said numerous times before... the Market will let any seller
know that the price is too high. I don't think that RHD is in the
market to buy these Gloves so he is not the Market.

If the product does not sell the seller will lower his price to attract
a seller as he has already done since opening this thread.

If someone does buy them at that price.... It is solely on the fact
that the buyer found the price to be acceptable whether RHD
thinks so or not...

I'm also getting a bit annoyed with the continual attacks on
the price of the item here...

We've all told him the price seems high to make a sale on LPF
and he has lowered the price... He is listening to the Forum..

Only time and the market will tell if he needs to lower his price
again to make a sale here...

Being realistic about this, if you want to sell the gloves at $700 (or somewhere in that range), it's not totally inconceivable to think that you could find a few niche buyers. But, being realistic about this, you'll need to make them look "sexier". If you want to sell at an up-market price like $700, you need to make these things look unreal. You need to do something ambitious with the design.

I DO NOT think you can differentiate yourself from the $100 competitors on quality alone. You need "sex appeal". Something that will trigger the emotional "I must own that" impulse - and impulse that is (practically speaking, even though people will deny this) a much stronger impulse than the mere desire to pursue quality.

Look at kiyoukan's concept. That's the kind of niche high-end design that reminds me of an Anselmo creation. It strikes me as something that I would *at least consider* paying crap loads of money for, if I had crap loads of money to spend, and wanted something of it's type. With your gloves, I can *see* how they're made, and this removes an element of "awe" from the design. I can see the original glove maker's logo (and it's not a cool logo). The blue webbing isn't sexy, and the colour doesn't match the actual colour of the beams (nor would it likely match the outfit of the wearer).

If you want to target the premium market, then maybe I was wrong for trying to suggest otherwise. But then I think I'm right in encouraging you to really target the premium market. To do so sucessfully, you need to make these things look REALLY sexy.

Now that reads HELPFUL without bashing the Seller's price.... :beer:


Jerry

 

[ElektroFreak]

Yes, well unlike you, I DO know what he's paying for his parts, because we've had this discussion before, I've seen his price list, and he has shared his sources with the forum in various other threads at various other points in time. So why don't you take the time to get yourself up to speed, before chastising someone else ignorantly? If you want to shoot your mouth off and be a troll, why don't you at least put in the time comittment to read the backdrop first?

I have SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING of this project's debut on the forum several thread back, been trying to provide Ablaze with constructive feedback aimed at helping his project to be more successful.

I don't care what he sells them for, I'm not a raver, and I don't want one. I DO care about others succeeding at pet projects, inventions, unique undertakings etc. I have no competing horse in the race. I WANT Ablaze to be successful. Just because someone doesn't like the advice you're giving, doesn't mean that advice is against their interest.

Grow up. Think.

Lemme be frank: Screw you.

There is more to this than parts cost. You have some twisted idea that you are entitled to place a value on someone else's hard work, but you're not. This is REAL simple stuff. Even simpler than that "high-school math" that you couldn't explain to me. It's not your place to rag on people unless you can prove that they are ripping the community off. You cannot prove that, so you should STFU. IMO badgering and bullying someone who has not scammed anyone about their products should be grounds for a ban. One more for the ignore list.. handy lil feature that.

 

[kiyoukan]

okay back to your corners.
So heres the true question can you make it

??
Sex sells.

Thats right i posted a pony deal with it.

 

[ElektroFreak]

Kiyoukan:
Maybe ElektroFreak can be real nice sometimes, but that hasn't been my experience. In my experience in previous threads, he has been closed minded and unwilling to actually consider the information put forward by others (and not just me - but dozens of others).

Ever notice how it's always a specific type of person that I'm "closed minded" towards? If you haven't then you should recheck who those "dozens" of people are. Rest assured, if I'm on your ass there's a good reason for it. I'm always watching..

 

[kiyoukan]

^^^
act 1 (>'_ '(>o_o)>
act 2 (>'_(>)>
act 3 (>'(>O_0)>
act 4 (>(>@_@)>
go back to act 3 till done

 

[lasersbee]

Maybe ElektroFreak can be real nice sometimes, but that hasn't been my experience. In my experience in previous threads, he has been closed minded and unwilling to actually consider the information put forward by others (and not just me - but dozens of others).

I've known EF since when I first registered on LPF....
He does not mince his words or keep his tongue in
his pocket. It takes a LOT to get him to voice his views
if he sees something not quite right...

I don't find him close minded but actually the opposite
and very helpful to the LPF community

If one happens to be on his $hit list then there is usually
a good reason for it...


Jerry