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FrozenGate by Avery

ISIS the terror machine






ARG said:
Anyone who engages in radical religion is stupid. IMO they've only been so successful recently as they're a beacon of hope for young males without direction. They give these kids an identity and a duty to uphold their religion.
The people they've recruited from Canada have typically been single and without a decent job.
For most of these people I think it's more about having a purpose in their life rather than enforcing radical Islam. Some of them were not even Islam before joining.

The governments should be targeting the same demographic isis is, create jobs and communities for these people. The people joining isis are leaving nothing behind, so give these people something to care for, a reason not to leave.
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You can't assume that just because they embrace their religion as the literal word of god, and are raised to defend it to the death, that they are any stupider than any other religious sect with the same beliefs.

Smart people can be indoctrinated that ONLY THEIR RELIGION is the correct one....and, sure, there ARE different TYPES of intelligence, but, we DO have scientists who work to perfect/design terrorist weapons...and, their use of available resources (IED etc) can not be called stupid.

There are Christians in the USA for example who would go to war to defend Christianity...if they were told by those they were trained to listen to, that it was under attack.

It doesn't mean that just because they'd believe that their religion was under attack that they were stupid, merely manipulated by the usual politically administered opiate effect.

Its not that hard to do:

1) Say some guy who was alive a coupla thousand years ago was holy and worth following.

2) Say here are the rules for following him

3) Here are the horrible things that happen to you if you DON'T follow him

4) Here are the wonderful rewards if you DO follow him

5) And make it so its illegal to argue about #1 - 5

BAM!!!

You have followers who would die to preserve it all.


I agree 100% that a lack of HOPE is what drives people to acts of desperation.

Its like "A Wonderful Life", except Clarance doesn't show up...Iran, Saudi Arabia or Iraq do, and offer riches and security to your family/heirs if you jump....

...and there's websites and advertisements for prospective jumpers to let them know there are cash rewards.


If there's no job except the "military", many disadvantaged kids join up, around the world....except over there, ISIS is also offering a job....and they promise to be the STRONGER side. (Who wouldn't want to join the winning side, and/or fight to defend their religion!)

Its SO much akin to the way gangs work, its not even funny.

Kids don't join gangs either, if they see other feasible alternatives.
 
Using nuclear weapons against ISIS, even small tactical ones would be like doing brain surgery with an axe.

Once it's OK to detonate a nuke. It is done by other nuclear armed states to deter their enemies. It would be a death spiral. No winners at all. None.

Contrary to logic. Nukes are for theoretical use. And a lot of the money spent on them, could be better spent on conventional forces.

However unilateral disarmament won't work with nuclear weapons either. If the bad guys have them and you don't. You are finished.
 
In my opinion, two things have to change to win in the sandbox. (or anywhere else for that matter)

1) Our rules of engagement are a joke, and the enemy knows it and uses it against us.

2) Our representatives in office that help draft them should be made to serve a week with a line unit, so they know what its like to be in a fire fight with one hand tied behind your back. I bet our ROE would change over night. If your not going to let our military fight 100% and or bog them down with BS rules, keep them home, and let the chips fall where they may.

We had a too many men and women come home in body bags because of it. :mad:
 
With regards to point one

Do you want another bloody long drawn out war like with Bush where we lost over 5,000 of our troops? We just can't go in alone until we form some coalition and maybe put aside our differences with Assad and support the Syrian army so that the regime stays in power. Look at Libya after Qaddafi was knocked out. Has it got better? Hell no and now ISIS is there too. If Syria falls to ISIS the whole middle east is in alot of trouble.I can't even imagine the atrocities of an already bloody civil war.
 
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joeyss said:
We just can't go in alone until we form some coalition and maybe put aside our differences with Assad and support the Syrian army so that the regime stays in power.
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Put aside our differences? He used chemical weapons(probably chlorine gas) on his own people then blatantly denied it. I know the enemy of my enemy is my friend but I cannot pardon him for HIS atrocities.

We wouldn't be going it alone; there are multiple allies already on the ground.

I like the propaganda leaflets the U.S. Designed. Quite creative I'd say

Source: usatoday article
 
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joeyss said:
With regards to point one

Do you want another bloody long drawn out war like with Bush where we lost over 5,000 of our troops? We just can't go in alone until we form some coalition and maybe put aside our differences with Assad and support the Syrian army so that the regime stays in power. Look at Libya after Qaddafi was knocked out. Has it got better? Hell no and now ISIS is there too. If Syria falls to ISIS the whole middle east is in alot of trouble.I can't even imagine the atrocities of an already bloody civil war.
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I didn't realize your post was directed at me, to answer your question, I absolutely do not want war, been there, it should be an absolute last resort only after everything else has failed.

My point was war is so horrific, that if you are going to engage in it ENGAGAGE IN IT! The following is things (just a small sample) the US military cannot do. Engage medical vehicle's (that's how the bad guys like to move guns and explosives) cant engage places of worship. ( that's were the Med. vehicle's drop off cargo) cant engage a Known terrorist if he is "unarmed" we also cant shoot across invisible lines into unnamed countries while the bad guys smile and give you the finger laughing.

Don't forget Aljazeera is in bed with our liberal media waiting for us to make the smallest mistake and scream war crime. I will not get into what the other side does to its people on an open forum, think of your worst nightmare and then multiply it x20.

One last thing, war is not only about the video games many play, the real objective in Iraq was to stabilize their new government, and train their police and military to take care of themselves. We were not able to see that through, we pulled out too soon because of a campaign promise and thousands were slaughtered after we left for siding with us. Trusting us.

So while many unenlightened back home said we were occupiers or there for the oil, the people who were there doing the tough job new the truth. We just never got to finish our job of helping the people that trusted us with their lives.

On to my final point, most of the people who make rules, the military live by, have never been shot at, lost someone close to them in combat, really know the emotional scar war leaves behind. They are detached from reality and catered to hand and foot worried only about themselves or their next election. Not for the real goal of the conflict so many fought and died for.

The result is on the news, ill trained police and military are overrun by isis and the rest is history.
 
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SB241 said:
I didn't realize your post was directed at me, to answer your question, I absolutely do not want war, been there, it should be an absolute last resort only after everything else has failed.

My point was war is so horrific, that if you are going to engage in it ENGAGAGE IN IT! The following is things (just a small sample) the US military cannot do. Engage medical vehicle's (that's how the bad guys like to move guns and explosives) cant engage places of worship. ( that's were the Med. vehicle's drop off cargo) cant engage a Known terrorist if he is "unarmed" we also cant shoot across invisible lines into unnamed countries while the bad guys smile and give you the finger laughing.

Don't forget Aljazeera is in bed with our liberal media waiting for us to make the smallest mistake and scream war crime. I will not get into what the other side does to its people on an open forum, think of your worst nightmare and then multiply it x20.

One last thing, war is not only about the video games many play, the real objective in Iraq was to stabilize their new government, and train their police and military to take care of themselves. We were not able to see that through, we pulled out too soon because of a campaign promise and thousands were slaughtered after we left for siding with us. Trusting us.

So while many unenlightened back home said we were occupiers or there for the oil, the people who were there doing the tough job new the truth. We just never got to finish our job of helping the people that trusted us with their lives.

On to my final point, most of the people who make rules, the military live by, have never been shot at, lost someone close to them in combat, really know the emotional scar war leaves behind. They are detached from reality and catered to hand and foot worried only about themselves or their next election. Not for the real goal of the conflict so many fought and died for.

The result is on the news, ill trained police and military are overrun by isis and the rest is history.
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I too am opposed to war unless we are attacked first. Those criminal politicians that pretend to work for us are smarter than you think they are. I don't believe they work for us and I don't think we really elect them, they work for defense contractors, and bankers, and big pharma and a few dozen billionaires who have a lot of influence over world events. Those people profit a great deal from wars and will continue to do so as long as they can. Just my opinion, never trust a politician or a lawyer. I hope I am exaggerating but I don't think I am. And don't trust our government propaganda US media for your news, get your news from multiple foreign news sources.

Alan
 
Pi R Squared said:
I too am opposed to war unless we are attacked first. Those criminal politicians that pretend to work for us are smarter than you think they are. I don't believe they work for us and I don't think we really elect them, they work for defense contractors, and bankers, and big pharma and a few dozen billionaires who have a lot of influence over world events. Those people profit a great deal from wars and will continue to do so as long as they can. Just my opinion, never trust a politician or a lawyer. I hope I am exaggerating but I don't think I am. And don't trust our government propaganda US media for your news, get your news from multiple foreign news sources.

Alan
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After learning the hard way, I have to agree with you 100%
My comment above was from a boots on the ground perspective. Not the "leaders"
 
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Lots of propaganda machines out there, see what they each have to say and put the picture together yourself. If your only source of news is CNN or any other US based media, you are getting fed a special feed to fatten you up before the slaughter.
 
I am mostly opposed to war, but I think I hear a distant thunder just over the horizon. Perhaps I am just hearing things.


Alan
 
I don't think ISIS will like trying to overtake a country full of weapons, in southwest Asia and the middle east most people don't have their own personal weapon, in this country we have more weapons than we have people.
 
Alaskan said:
I don't think ISIS will like trying to overtake a country full of weapons, in southwest Asia and the middle east most people don't have their own personal weapon, in this country we have more weapons than we have people.
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I agree, ISIS could send people here through Mexico and cause plenty of trouble but I am not too worried about it. That's not at all what I am thinking about here, however I will say that we not only have the most well armed population of any country on earth, another thing we have going for us is our size (land area), the same can be said of Russia, Canada, China, Brazil, and Australia. I would question the ability of Canada and Australia to defend themselves if they had to do it by themselves, but the fact is they are simply too large. The U.S. Military, the most powerful on earth, doesn't even do very well at occupying small and medium size countries. The largest empires in history never had enough military to do the job, they had to be very brutal and keep people in fear of them, and they were all eventually destroyed at least partly from within before they were destroyed from without.

Alan
 
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