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FrozenGate by Avery

Bad Dealings with Laser83






rhd said:
I'm still of the mind that it's inappropriate to ask for the full amount (less $50) back. It sounds like you've certainly received more than $50 worth. From an ethical perspective, I don't think it's right for this guy, sketchy as he may be, to receive only $50 for possessions that clearly had more value than $50.
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It is absolutely ridiculous to rationalize that KRNAZNBOY should receive anything less than what he is due -- the goods or the value of the goods as described -- because of the so-called "inherent value" of the product he did receive. He was not buying $150 worth of lasers. No, he was buying the products in the condition agreed upon. Period.

Did Laser83 come visit this post or try to work things out with KRNAZNBOY? Did he offer a refund? Did he even post an explanation? No. Instead, he edited his post to cover up the evidence. He should receive nothing and lose everything in this transaction.

Anyway, that "value" is entirely relative. What if KRNAZNBOY was more (only) interested in the green or 445nm lasers, not so much some red or violet that were effectively just bonuses? What if he can't sell the lasers he did receive to recoup the value he supposedly received? What if he can't repair the parts into working order despite them being considered an "easy fix" by others? What if he needed the parts and lasers within a certain time-table and finding replacements lasers (possibly from funds made by selling) takes too much time? (Kiyoukan effectively did that with me). Often even refunds leave you in a worse place than if you hadn't bothered at all.

Even if the buyer was getting a "great deal" and knew it, he should receive what was agreed upon, not settle for some lesser deal. You don't go buy some food with "50%" more only to find they fraudulently advertised it, and then just accept the no-extra-value price as given. No. You were buying the product because it was a good deal. The company or seller deceiving people should be penalized for their misdeeds. In this forum, we're generally even nicer about it and let people off by allowing them to refund the amount, but what has Laser83 done about it?

KRNAZNBOY: Don't settle for less than what you were originally trying to buy. False advertising and fraud should be met with punishment to discourage it.
 
Bionic-Badger said:
It is absolutely ridiculous to rationalize that KRNAZNBOY should receive anything less than what he is due -- the goods or the value of the goods as described -- because of the so-called "inherent value" of the product he did receive. He was not buying $150 worth of lasers. No, he was buying the products in the condition agreed upon. Period.

Did Laser83 come visit this post or try to work things out with KRNAZNBOY? Did he offer a refund? Did he even post an explanation? No. Instead, he edited his post to cover up the evidence. He should receive nothing and lose everything in this transaction.

Anyway, that "value" is entirely relative. What if KRNAZNBOY was more (only) interested in the green or 445nm lasers, not so much some red or violet that were effectively just bonuses? What if he can't sell the lasers he did receive to recoup the value he supposedly received? What if he can't repair the parts into working order despite them being considered an "easy fix" by others? What if he needed the parts and lasers within a certain time-table and finding replacements lasers (possibly from funds made by selling) takes too much time? (Kiyoukan effectively did that with me). Often even refunds leave you in a worse place than if you hadn't bothered at all.

Even if the buyer was getting a "great deal" and knew it, he should receive what was agreed upon, not settle for some lesser deal. You don't go buy some food with "50%" more only to find they fraudulently advertised it, and then just accept the no-extra-value price as given. No. You were buying the product because it was a good deal. The company or seller deceiving people should be penalized for their misdeeds. In this forum, we're generally even nicer about it and let people off by allowing them to refund the amount, but what has Laser83 done about it?

KRNAZNBOY: Don't settle for less than what you were originally trying to buy. False advertising and fraud should be met with punishment to discourage it.
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I would kiss you if i could. We have had our differences inthe past but you really come through for me here!

I lost ALL my money so now i will just have to deal with what i have. No biggie. I guess PayPal doesn't deal with lasers :( i know that now

I am more bugged with how Jared handled the situation than what i paid and what i got.

Thank you Bionic-Badger. I am upset with Jared as well, more upset at him than i am at what i received FROM him.

Anyways, the underlying meaning here for any members following this thread is

BE AWARE OF WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. IF IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, THEN IT (most likely) IS.

I made this mistake in the hopes that because of one scam on me, 10 people will get it RIGHT!

Thanks everyone! I might try to sell some of the stuff i got and i will list it HOW IT REALLY IS just keep a look out. Stuff will be pretty cheap :)

:beer:
-Matt
 
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BB:
You quoted part of what I said, but not all of it. Let me complete the picture:

rhd said:
From a practical perspective, I'm not sure how PayPal works (when it's a non-ebay item) for disputes of quality. I know they're good with disputes of non-receipt.

Putting this all together, I'm left thinking that your best course of action is to somehow resolve this directly. Of course, that requires some cooperation on his side. But maybe he could simply provide you with a full refund, for a full return of the goods. Then he could resell them, ACCURATELY described, for whatever the market thinks those goods worth.
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You noted that Laser83 didn't come visit this post or try to work things out with KRNAZNBOY. I get that. In fact, I noted that resolving this amicably would require some cooperation on Laser83's part.

I also flagged that recovering from Paypal might be a challenge. It looks like I may be dead-on with that point. It also turns out that coming to an amicable solution (perhaps a partial refund), would have been a better outcome, if attainable, than recovering nothing at all through Paypal.

I'm not out to left field on this stuff. If you can work with people to come to compromise, even when you're sure you're in the clear right, and they're 100% evil, it's almost always going to be better than taking an absolute non-compromising hard-line stance.

That's all. No drama intended. I don't know these parties, or what the skirmish in the original thread was about. I do know that when you stop thinking in a black and white, non-compromising, polarized manner, you'll in aggregate get better results in the face of adversity and dispute.
 
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Sorry to hear that this has happened KRNAZNBOY. :( I've been ripped off before and it really sucks. :mad: Hopefully he resurfaces and you get something back from him.




daguin said:
PayPal does NOT support refunds for "item not as described" outside of eBay

I learned that on a >$400 buy from a now banned member :(
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Even when you win the dispute you can get short changed I've found. Back in 2007 I bought a 230mW green pen from a member for $220. It never arrived and he no longer responded to any of my PMs/emails. I started a dispute and eventually won. I guess he had no money left in his PayPal because I ended up getting nothing even after winning the dispute. :mad:
 
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TheDukeAnumber1 said:
Lighten up a little bit KRNAZNBOY, I'm just giving you a hard time. Proofread your post next time :D
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I was just trying to say that I hope others will see my experience, learn from it, and won't make the same mistake.

:beer:
-Matt
 
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rhd said:
BB:
You quoted part of what I said, but not all of it. Let me complete the picture:

That's all. No drama intended. I don't know these parties, or what the skirmish in the original thread was about. I do know that when you stop thinking in a black and white, non-compromising, polarized manner, you'll in aggregate get better results in the face of adversity and dispute.
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I was not disagreeing with the second half of your response that meeting somewhere in the middle may in fact earn you more than a no-compromise stance. That's why I didn't quote it.

I quoted exactly what I intended to address, and I was also responding to some of the replies by others that carried the same message. My message is: KRNAZNBOY does not deserve anything less than the agreed upon amount. That is the "ethical" amount he should receive -- even if he supposedly gained far more value than what he paid already. Furthermore, if Laser83 is intending to defraud KRNAZNBOY, he should receive far less/lose far more than any amicable agreement that could have been achieved otherwise.

Whether that is possible is another matter. It's kind of like having to pay for return shipping because of a defective product. If it's in the warranty period usually that's fine, but if it's outright DOA (like many of KRNAZNBOY's lasers) the company should pay for the costs of return shipping.

I've chargebacked sleazebag companies who refused to pay return shipping for sending back a wrong product they sent, nor just sending a replacement (like DX does), because it was entirely not my fault and they would not remedy it (ignoring repeated emails, no phone numbers to contact them), plus the cost of shipping was more than the cost of the item and I was not going to accept paying 2x to get what I paid for. I called my bank, got my money back, kept the useless wrong item (wrong type of screwdriver), and that company got hit with $30 of chargeback fees for their shenanigans (their website even threatened that they would charge people for chargebacks, YEAH RIGHT). That's how it should be.
 
You should have gained a couple dollars after this thread bro, after adding everybodys 2 cents that they putting in this thread.. if you know what i mean, im backing bionic badgers view with regards to your dealings with laser83, dont let any negative input get yah pissed, and also thankz for the awareness of this lpf member and what can happen sometimes, this has been a learning for us all
 
I've been scammed a few times on this board - and frankly, I think many people who have been here for a few years have, to some degree.

If you think of all the niche hobby forums there must be out there, with relative strangers exchanging items constantly, it's really surprising that we still have no commercial / mainstream / widely accepted escrow services catering to these markets.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
You might consider taking some of that broken stuff and making working stuff out of it. You would then be justified in selling it for a bit more than what it was worth when you bought it, and a buyer might be more interested in a working item than a random part.

I do remember someone offered to buy the broken green module off of you, so even the broken stuff you will probably find buyers for.

That beefy aluminum host looks very nice as well, but that may be one of the working ones.

Either way, glad that all this is mostly behind us, I think all of us have learned something and are now better people because of it!
 
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