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12x Murder Fund! + Graph!

daguin

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Re: 12x Murder Fund!

Sent $10 so that Dave wouldn't have to pay all $50 :)
Thank you Grix

+1


all we need to see if they are really just 8x diodes, no need to test 2 of them!
Agreed. A second is not needed at this time. *IF* it tests differently than the 8X, *THEN* we may to revisit this idea. However, we do not need one at this time.

Peace,
dave
 
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Sybiria

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Sent you a little something :) so u will not take that much cost by yourself, since you r going to be doing most of the work :)
 

Tabish

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

WOOT!!!!!!

Nicely done everyone!

Lets hope we get the results soon and they are good.
(edited, typo)
 
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daguin

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Sent you a little something :) so u will not take that much cost by yourself, since you r going to be doing most of the work :)
Thanks Sybiria

Peace,
dave
 

Shogoki

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

so i go off going busy with my personal life for a week or two.. come back..

and you guys already finished a 12x murder fund?? damn. you guys are awesome. lol..
hmm.. still need to check the thread for the 8x one and see how igor is doing.. :can:
 

IgorT

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

When i heard of this new fund yesterday, i wasn't too sure at first. I thought the 12x's were too similar to 8x's and that we do not yet have enough evidence to suggest otherwise.


Then Dave tested an 8x in the same way he tested his two 12x's and the 8x did not repeat the same behavior pattern in the efficiency plots - the 12x0s suddenly stood out from all the tested 8x's in a very noticable way! Now i'm starting to think these really are new diodes!


Even more so, after i spent some time looking at the various plots and realized one interesting thing.
If GGWs and 8x's are all plotted with the same optics, their plots would overlap over a large area. Many good or high efficiency GGWs would have the same slope efficiencies as many 8x's.
The difference would be that the groups would not overlap completelly (the 8x group would be slightly higher), and of course, that the 8x's can be plotted to powers where GGWs would simply pop.



Now we have 12x's and at first they seemed too similar to 8x's. If anything, perhaps similar to high efficiency 8x's, but with only two plotted, it was really hard to say what the 12x efficiency spread would be.


Diodes overlapping in their slope efficiency plot steepness doesn't mean much, considering the similarities between GGWs and 8x's.

But since 12x's actually form different slope and efficiency patterns, i'd say that we actually have better evidence they are different than 8x's, than that 8x's are different from GGWs (if we had nothing but plots to judge from)!

Additionally i think that 12x's show slightly lower Vf's than 8x's at the same currents on average. And if they are higher power diodes, they should!



I can not say that 12x's are better diodes than 8x's for sure, what i'm saying is, that suddenly i am becoming interested in this experiment!
There definitelly is some evidence that they are different!


In the meanwhile, i'll go and plot their Vf's against the Vf's of 8x's, to see if they stand out....
 

IgorT

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

And indeed, when i plot Vf's alone, the 12x's DO stand out, and not just a little!

The result is PRECISELLY what i would expect from a higher power diode - lower Vf's at the same currents!

Looks like these really are new diodes. I already posted this plot in Dave's 12x thread, but it doesn't hurt if i post it here as well!





The 12x Vf's do overlap with two 8x diodes, but the average 8x Vf is distinctivelly higher at the same currents.

I believe this is the best indication so far that higher power diodes were used in 12x writers!



EDIT: What?!? It's complete?

And i was only now starting to think it would be a good idea to do it.. :crackup:
That's why i did the Vf comparison just posted... :crackup:
 
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Crazy Jay

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Excellent IgorT! Do you think they can be powered up to 500mw?
 

HIMNL9

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Uhm, maybe ..... but at this rate, you can also previse a thermal dissipation of 3 W or more (not speaking about the driver, ofcourse :p) ..... may need a very well designed host, probably, if you're thinking about a portable / handheld unit.

Better wait the results of the next "torture", probably :D
 

IgorT

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Dave, i just saw your signature in another thread..

You should never have taken it out of that 12x sled you sent to me.. Then it would have already been here... :crackup:


Anyway, this is bizzare, before i made a single post to this thread you guys already had it wrapped up!
I have a faint recollection that plans for my future included some free time.. :crackup:


Not that i won't enjoy killing a 12x diode. :evil:
 
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IgorT

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Excellent IgorT! Do you think they can be powered up to 500mw?
High efficiency 8x's can be powered up to 500mW...
However there i would not recommend it for reliability reasons (at least not until more torture is done). With a 12x, i would actually consider it!

But then again, that's why we're gonna kill one, isn't it? To figure this out... :yh:



Uhm, maybe ..... but at this rate, you can also previse a thermal dissipation of 3 W or more (not speaking about the driver, ofcourse :p) ..... may need a very well designed host, probably, if you're thinking about a portable / handheld unit.

Better wait the results of the next "torture", probably :D
Since the Vf is lower, so will be the thermal dissipation... I mean, compared to most 8x's pushed to 500mW.

Some 8x's have the same Vf and slope efficiency, those could be pushed to 500mW and would create the same amount of heat as a 12x, but probably wouldn't last as long, unless Vf has some deep dark meaning for when it comes to diode toughness...
 

Crazy Jay

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

I'm obsessed with visible beams Igor
 

HIMNL9

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

@IgorT: yes, the efficency is better, with a lower VF ..... i was thinking also about the working time and "durability", cause a 12X is, after all, a high cost diode (at least, for me is high cost :p).

So, i was thinking that, using it in a better thermally dissipating holder, can also improve the life of the diode a bit ..... unfortunately, the usual "press-fit" system, is not the better thermal exchange solution ..... maybe, when i get a breath time, from all the works of the house, i have to draw something more "crazy", like a holder with a screw ring for fit the diode, and some thick parts designed for optimize the thermal exchange ..... :p
 

IgorT

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

I'm obsessed with visible beams Igor
I think we all are, CJ... :yh:


Anyway, does anyone have any idea as to how to test this thing?

I mean with the 8x's we had some numbers - the currents people set them to, and there we are mostly testing how long the 8x's can survive these currents/powers...
The 12x on the other hand is completelly unknown, or rather we do not yet have any experience with it....

Ok, we do at least have a better idea about their power ratings now, thanks to the charts LarryDWF posted, but unfortunatelly that doesn't tell me where to set a 12x for testing....


Between PHRs, GGWs and 8x's, there is a big difference as to how far they can be pushed! Some can be set to just over twice their rated CW power (GGWs), others as high as four times (8x's and PHRs - altho 8x's actually seem to like it)!

8x's seem to be very flexible when it comes to how far they can be pushed! I mean, they are being set to twice their pulsed power after high NA AR coated glass lenses!

I don't know if i should say this out loud, but for a 12x that would mean 600-640mW... :whistle:

We do not however know if the 12x's will be just as "flexible"...

It's possible that they would only last longer at the powers we can already reach. On the other hand, they could surprise us just as much as 8x's...
Thing is, GGWs, while they had twice the power rating of the PHRs, did not really allow being set to twice their pulsed ratings!

Clearly there is no simple rule as to how far a diode can be pushed....


The first 8x murder candidate - the one i declared the "weakest" - is still hammering away at the sensor, nearing 30 hours! 1798 on the counter at this moment. I must say i'm impressed..

Let's just hope the 12x's follow the same pattern and actually allow us going higher.




DrLava had an interesting idea on how to test a diode:
- Cycle at one current for a number of hours and check for degradation.
- If no degradation is noticable, raise current and cycle for another (same) number of hours.
- Repeat until degradation is noticable...


Unfortunatelly we don't really know if all diodes degrade at the same rate or lose the same or similar percentage of their power before dying....
We don't even know if every diode has to degrade noticably (by dropping in power) before it can die. I hope the second 8x Murder Candidate will shed some light on this.

Fact is, that when a diode is pushed WAY too high it can and will die without a warning... We just don't know where that is for 12x's...


But in any case, testing this 12x will be interesting! :yh:
 

Tech_Junkie

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Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

How did the thread title change??? Someone finally figure it out?
 




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