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The Green Gargoyle 10.08 W @ 520nm

Alaskan

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Quote CDBEAM777

Thanx !! ...And....If we reverse the Ray Trace of the bottom drawing ??? What do we get ?????? Is there symmetry in direction ????

I likely have a misconception of some fundamental Optical understanding !!! But then...I am no Optical Engineer....Justa Hack !!! Look'in for a simple solution !! Can't blame a guy for trying !!!

CDB
Maybe a ring of collimated beams (just individual beams arranged in a circle) into the assembly backwards will produce an output which has all of the beams more closely grouped? I don't believe it would make a solid beam, no, but more closely grouped together?

 
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RedCowboy

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The only way I can see this working to combine beams would be as a cone shaped mirror to group a ring of laser beams, they would not be actually combined rather reflected into a small circle of beams converging at infinity.



axiconconcept01.jpg

axiconconcept2c.jpg
 
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Alaskan

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I was editing my first post in this thread page to say the same thing while you were editing your post to add this, great minds think alike. This might allow a larger number of beams to be added together in a far closer grouping than a circular diode arrangement could allow alone, due to the size of the modules.

Edit: Doing so may produce the symmetrical output I need to be able to shoot a much smaller grouping into a spherical beam expander for reduced divergence :)
 
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RedCowboy

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Yes and you could use beam shaping optics before the cone mirror, but all your alignment would happen on the laser source end.............also the ring of lasers would need to be on a ring the matching circumference for the distance based on the angle of the cone mirror in order to get the smallest possible starting bundle..........probably easier to knife edge or if doing this use a ring of tiny mirrors the size of each beam that you can adjust independently.
 
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Alaskan

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Agreed, I also think aligning each beam from the diode modules with a mirror, or some other method of adjustment such as you mentioned earlier would need to be used for this to work.

The ebay seller will probably take an offer of 15 dollars each for the Axicon's, he did for two I had ordered earlier today, but I am not sure if they are dichroic mirrored glass, or whether the color changing coating (when viewed at different angles) is an AR coating, he doesn't know for sure either but suspects a mirror, as I do.. I ordered two, will know in about two weeks, if they arrive on time.
 
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logsquared

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Maybe a ring of collimated beams (just individual beams arranged in a circle) into the assembly backwards will produce an output which has all of the beams more closely grouped? I don't believe it would make a solid beam, no, but more closely grouped together?

This exactly what I visualized in my mental couch exercise. If you look at the rays traced in the pic (just reversed direction) it does appear to work in that radial direction (this is due to the refractive prism action). If you visualize the input ring as a group of beams like a telephone dial then the output will be the same but shrunk radially. Because the beams got narrower in that dimension we know the divergence had to change proportionally. No free lunch so to speak.

I have come up with a hack that may work. If we had elements like an axicon, but were faceted the circumferential induced distortion would not exist. Could even experiment with these cheap crystals on eBay.

crystal.jpg

At the end of the day, I think for this project, knife edging will be most compact and have the greatest beam density. But a handheld with a crystal like above as the output lens would be pretty cool.
 

steve001

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Application info on the Axicon lens.
 

CDBEAM777

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Can you guys cook, or what !! In reality, Albiet NO formal Optical training, We have an inherent synergy, driven by a uncompromised supply of curiosity and passion !! . We have a systemic " Out of the Box " mentality....which MAY somewhat compensate for lack of formal training. Dunno.

Surly, Some Projector designers may monitor our site for novel approaches !! The cost is right !! FREE....

LS...Our minds were on a parallel track...a multi-facet optic to achieve a Co-linear / Beam-On-Beam output. I refuse to give up the " Holy Grail " of Beam-On-Beam.....even though it is unlikely that it can be accomplisher....Then again....I embrace the simple and elegant vector that nature takes !!
...and support the current nascent interest in E8 as the TOE answer !! Who knows !!! Nature likes Symmetry and crystals....gotta be a reason !!!

CDB

Just added....Thanx Steve001...." More sauce for the goose " !!!!!!!!!!!! hahahaha.....Duly noted that Axicon's are used in Laser application....SO....the big question for me....How tight a ring can we form.....Co-linear....Maybe not....but tight....yea !
Your ideas are all arriving so fast and furious....I am overloaded !!! ZZZZzzzzzzzz….Smell of burning electronic circuits !!

Just added 2....Hmmmm....the more I read the Asphericon Website....the more I am interested....especially is a mult faceted ( Like 8 facets )
Axicon optics ! SO...If a cutting edge....real Optics company is developing Axicon optics for Laser beam shaping....we MAY not be out in left field after all !!!! ???
 
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Alaskan

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So happy to see this thread continue, we've found some good stuff in a short amount of time supporting the idea. Watching this thread with great interest.



PS: If you open the E8 door with me, you might not be able to shut it. :)
 
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CDBEAM777

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HAHAHAHA Chris...Just imagine.....If we, with our humble formal training....We accidently stumble upon some combination technique....that some projector manufacture, or Optical manufacture has been working on for years....Oh Crap !! Although the likely hood is very, very small....I like to think it is possible !! Perhaps, that is why we seem to have a lack of reply from some in our group ???….or...they just think we are just a bunch'a'hacks….with good intentions....but primitive understanding ??? Dunno ??? It is an interesting thread !!

The issue of limits in co-linear beam combining has been in my mind for years....and I am sure a quest for the likes of Kvant/Xlaser/Atten/OptLaser….and many others for years !!!

Quite simply, Always follow the solution given by nature, as it is the most elegant, simple and beautiful solution. E8 is an example of that.

Bob
 

Alaskan

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I had posted more here earlier about something I wanted to build in this thread, but it occurred to me I was turning the thread towards my project instead of yours, so deleted it. So to continue, I see you have not been to the forum since Monday AM, I'm looking forward to seeing more about this project :) Do you really want to try the Axicon for it?
 

CDBEAM777

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Dunno ?????

This has been on my mind. The LD's COULD be mounted in a Pitch adjustable Mount I have designed....see drawing attached....It has Pitch adjustability....and IIRC Thantung machined one !!
A major questions remains....CAN we achieve Eight (8) Co-linear beams ???? Beam-On-Beam X 8 ????????????????
Will Axion shape with eight (8) flat sides ……...bend and blend Eight (8) beams....into a single beam ?? Dunno ? Free to ask !!! Perhaps a silly question ?? Dunno.....Thinking and doing some WWW searching !!

IF it were doable....I just cannot believe one of the projector manufactures would not have used such a novel/simple combining technique as a marketing tool !!!

Maybe knife edging ….then Telescope optics is just as good, combines the beams SO close....it just does not matter !! Perhaps....they have learned that an Axicon optical set-up works....just too expensive....and just too difficult to maintain adequate alignment ???????
I would be shocked to learn.....that we really are on to something....SIGH.....Pass that "Cold Fusion Beer " HAHAHAHA One must have goals !!! Later !!!

CDB
 

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CDBEAM777

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OK...Here we go again....based on all your great ideas....and my.....er….ah....obsession....See the attached drawing V 1.7 !!
Hmmmm....Our primary format is Cylindrical ….for a HH unit....SO....the GG could be built around a Hexagonal Aluminum bar stock.

I propose using six (6) NDG 7475 LD's....combined with the G8 Collimation lens only....I believe no Cylindrical lenses will be needed.

The LD mounts ( Lasertack) could be mounted on each of the six (6) sides of the Hexagonal bar....with the beam propagation parallel to the bar centre axix.

SO....a 6.35mm thick Aluminum plate….113.575mm dia ….could be bolted to the Hexagonal bar end. This plate could then serve as a platform for
the Prism Bounce mirror/mirror holder ( Both from Lasertack )

For example... a single beam travels up....thru a bore hole machined in the plate.....hits the bounce prism mirror....and is directed toward the longitudinal centre axis of the Hexagonal bar.

OK....Now we have a series of six (6) triangular ( custome cut) bounce mirrors. These mirrors could be epoxy attached to a Aluminum machined Hexagonal Polygon top cap. Of course, the mirrors and Ally cap would be centered and bolted to our Ally 113.575 dia. plate

SO....a individual beam....takes another 90 deg. bounce/turn when it hits the very top of the triangular mirror. Therefore... Six (6) combined beams then would form a very tight circular array....Six (6) beams....all adjusted to be parallel....traveling out the top of our build.

SO...maybe NOT Co-Linear.....but....surly doable...a tight array !!....and er...fairly affordable !!! MMMMmmm….6 x 1.4W = 8.4W !!! MMM say .5 % loss for optics.....Almost 8 Watts.....out the front door !!! MMMMMMMmmm…...

Who wants one ?????

CDBEAM
 

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Alaskan

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Looks awesome, just want to know what the divergence will be and how close the beams will be on the output.
 

CDBEAM777

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OK....Fair enough.....BUT...I gotta tell'ya….I will only divulge these metrics....when....several of you fellow enthusiast's....respond to my challenge to view the Monty Python / YouTube clip on my " Supercar" thread !! !! HAHAHA...Whatever !! CDB
 

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Alaskan

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If the divergence is good, I'm probably in, but you know me, my desires are unreasonable when it comes to that :p
What would the divergence be, 1.5 mRad?

Bob testing his new SuperCar pointer

 
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