Space Discussion Thread

[Razako]

Yes, slowing the earth down sufficiently would actually cause it to fall into the sun. Tip for all you mad scientists and super villains out there.

 

[NightExplorer96]

True! Forgot about that whoops :/

Edit: Good thing im not in charge of space

-Alex

 

[Benm]

Luckily there is quite a bit of knowledge on how orbital mechanics work.

If we were ever able to fit the earth with some drive system to alter the orbit around the sun operating that would probably be left to experts, preventing stupid mistakes like going on 'reverse thrust' or 'forward thrust' resulting in a crazy ellipitical orbit instead of a neat orbital transfer that requires 2 bursts half a year apart.

Currently the whole ordeal is irrelevant since we cannot do it, but if we ever develop the technical ability it would be a challenge to find someone to leave the decision to. People spread over the world have different things to gain or lose from adjusting orbit. Even ofsetting for global warming would have huge negative implications on many regions, from failing crops to shipping lanes freezing over.

 

[Alaskan]

This little short video has a bit about space, thought it interesting:

 

[Rivem]

Let's share some space videos then. Kurzgesagt makes some good science videos and has a good one on the limits of exploring our universe.

 

[NightExplorer96]

Let's share some space videos then. Kursagt makes some good science videos and has a good one on the limits of exploring our universe.

I'm subscribed to that channel on YT and absolutely love his videos! Yeah, kinda sucks there are some places in the universe we will never get to explore

-Alex

 

[Razako]

Thanks for linking to that channel. I found some other really cool stuff.

Am I the only one slightly terrified by this? Seems like the lead up to most sci-fi dystopia movies. Imagine a world in which the rich and powerful never die, and are genetically superior to us in every way. What could go wrong?

IMO the most terrifying aspect of this tech is the thought of totalitarian regimes using it to create a permanent slave class. What if they used it to maintain control by engineering people who would die without a weekly injection of some chemical from the government? I think I remember some bad sci-fi movie where people had to pay the government for more 'time' or they would die.

Other issues include the creation of extremely deadly bio weapons and invasive species.

Genetic Engineering is a lot like Nuclear Power. Along with the great potential for good, you have an equal potential for evil.

 

[NightExplorer96]

Yeah, it's a very dangerous line to walk with these sort of things. That would be disastrous if we had something like what you mentioned with the slave class happen!

-Alex

 

[paul1598419]

It is an interesting channel. The last one reminded me of the eugenics experiments of the early 20th century. That was part and parcel to the Nazi program of a superior race and, of course, the holocaust.

 

[Rivem]

I'm subscribed to that channel on YT and absolutely love his videos! Yeah, kinda sucks there are some places in the universe we will never get to explore

-Alex

Thanks for linking to that channel. I found some other really cool stuff.

Glad both of you guys like that channel. Kurzgesagt really makes some great videos. MinutePhysics is another favorite in the category I found the channel right when it started, and I've been subscribed since. Very factual, and nice visuals.

Am I the only one slightly terrified by this? Seems like the lead up to most sci-fi dystopia movies. Imagine a world in which the rich and powerful never die, and are genetically superior to us in every way. What could go wrong?

IMO the most terrifying aspect of this tech is the thought of totalitarian regimes using it to create a permanent slave class. What if they used it to maintain control by engineering people who would die without a weekly injection of some chemical from the government? I think I remember some bad sci-fi movie where people had to pay the government for more 'time' or they would die.

Other issues include the creation of extremely deadly bio weapons and invasive species.

Genetic Engineering is a lot like Nuclear Power. Along with the great potential for good, you have an equal potential for evil.

Yeah, it's a very dangerous line to walk with these sort of things. That would be disastrous if we had something like what you mentioned with the slave class happen!

-Alex

CRISPR is some real crazy stuff. That video does a good job of explaining just how revolutionary a breakthrough it is. We're no way near the point that we can really modify humans all that well, but there's no telling how long it will actually take to get there now. We just need a better understanding of genetics which might not be too far off with the advances in genome sequencing and computing.

The terrifying thing about CRISPR to me is just how easy it is now. If some of the more totalitarian governments of the world want to mess with people's genomes, it isn't that hard anymore. People in home labs might even be able to mess with genomes without much experience and really screw up a species. I'm not a biologist, but to me it seems like CAS9 might even be weaponizable to some degree in water, food, or aerosols. I think we have some biologists and chemists around that can really explain the implications though.

 

[Razako]

If it was comparable to our progress in electronics, I feel like we'd be back when they were first developing transistors. In 50-70 years I could see this tech making all kinds of seemingly crazy things possible. It also depends on how much governments investing into this tech, and whether private genetic modification is banned or whatever. If people get freaked out and the government bans human testing it might really slow progress down.

 

[Rivem]

If it was comparable to our progress in electronics, I feel like we'd be back when they were first developing transistors. In 50-70 years I could see this tech making all kinds of seemingly crazy things possible. It also depends on how much governments investing into this tech, and whether private genetic modification is banned or whatever. If people get freaked out and the government bans human testing it might really slow progress down.

If human genetic modification get really widespread and effective, we might just have to divide the species up and elect/design a deity class to control it all. People will be immortal, and reproduction will lose its meaning. I'd be fine with fixes for single gene diseases, but modifying children and ourselves significantly will be a bit much unless we decide to give up being human. Banning the tech would be nearly impossible without a lot more international unification than we have now though.

 

[Benm]

Indeed, we have no world government that can go an ban countries from doing such things.

It would also much harder to control since the materials used to perform genetic modifications on humans are the same as those needed for other vertabrates (or even simpler organisms for that matter). This makes it vastly different from for example nuclear proliferation where pretty specific materials and equipment are required.

The outcome is only speculation. A 'bad' scenario could be a split between humans who can afford it and gain more wealth after doing so, and those who cannot. Looking into the future is difficult, but in theory it could split the human species into two, if vast improvements are possible.

This might be a true species split at some point where they can no longer interbreed to produce fertile offspring. This split would result in 'homo sapiens sapiens' (us right now) and a new 'homo sapiens anthropogenesis' or something similar for the enhanced species.

I wonder what relations between such species would be, perhaps a bit like how we treat cattle (or pets?) now?

 

[Razako]

Indeed, we have no world government that can go an ban countries from doing such things.

It would also much harder to control since the materials used to perform genetic modifications on humans are the same as those needed for other vertabrates (or even simpler organisms for that matter). This makes it vastly different from for example nuclear proliferation where pretty specific materials and equipment are required.

The outcome is only speculation. A 'bad' scenario could be a split between humans who can afford it and gain more wealth after doing so, and those who cannot. Looking into the future is difficult, but in theory it could split the human species into two, if vast improvements are possible.

This might be a true species split at some point where they can no longer interbreed to produce fertile offspring. This split would result in 'homo sapiens sapiens' (us right now) and a new 'homo sapiens anthropogenesis' or something similar for the enhanced species.

I wonder what relations between such species would be, perhaps a bit like how we treat cattle (or pets?) now?

I always think of something like "Hunger Games'. You'd have the genetically enhanced ruling class in their walled off city of luxury. There would be outlying areas filled with all of the 'imperfect humans' who would basically be used for slave labor. The slave class might be genetically modified by force to make them dependent on the elites to stay alive. "work for the superior humans or go without the amino acid injection which you need to stay alive".

This is probably the 'nightmare' scenario I think of when considering the future of genetic modification.

Best case scenario is one in which the technology is freely shared in society and even provided free of charge by the government. After all, it would benefit society to not have mentally ill, crippled, diseased and otherwise unfit individuals.

 

[paul1598419]

I've taken courses in genetics as recently as 1998 and from everything i know, this is still a long way from being a successful way to genetically engineer humans in any way. You need to know the specific gene you are targeting and also the various groups of nucleotide bases you want to change. Then you must actually change them in a way that is repeatable. It is still quite complicated.

 

[Benm]

Technology might not be quite there yet, i fully agree. But i think it will get to that point somewhere in the future, and it's likely to be used once available.

I always think of something like "Hunger Games'. You'd have the genetically enhanced ruling class in their walled off city of luxury. There would be outlying areas filled with all of the 'imperfect humans' who would basically be used for slave labor.

Well, that's the world we live in today really... except the difference is not genetic but the nationality in your passport.

Think of it: If you have a US, EU or 'rich country' passport you can freely move around the world, to countries where most people are poor, to countries in all kinds of trouble, as you please. People from those countries cannot enter europe or the US under most circumstances.

So the inescapable lower class hellhole basically is already there. I don't think that this should be changed quickly (or perhaps at all) though since mass migration will likely plunge the rich countries into poverty without helping the poor countries at all (only the relatively rich will flee them as the rest cannot even afford travel).