Sodium metal

[Sigurthr]

If you want to make H2 gas from Aluminium you don't need to powder it at all. I used to use Al-generated-H2 as a fuel source for my Bunsen burner when I was a wee pre-teen. All you need is a roll of aluminium foil and a strong alkali like NaOH or KOH (I always preferred KOH because I didn't have a source for lye locally). Simply make a strong solution of the alkali (PH >10.5) and insert crumpled up aluminium foil. Vent through drying beads and a check valve in the line is always useful. A 500ml flask of hydroxide and about 10g of aluminium is enough for hours of hydrogen to a standard burner.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

If you want to make H2 gas from Aluminium you don't need to powder it at all. I used to use Al-generated-H2 as a fuel source for my Bunsen burner when I was a wee pre-teen. All you need is a roll of aluminium foil and a strong alkali like NaOH or KOH (I always preferred KOH because I didn't have a source for lye locally). Simply make a strong solution of the alkali (PH >10.5) and insert crumpled up aluminium foil. Vent through drying beads and a check valve in the line is always useful. A 500ml flask of hydroxide and about 10g of aluminium is enough for hours of hydrogen to a standard burner.

Actually thats another (easier) way to generate hydrogen gas, however the
generation of hydrogen with micron sized Aluminium powder is far greater than that of the Hydroxide route according to the literature I've read.
the hydrogen in this case is used to fuel a fuel cell and run a laptop.

--> My warning about the grinding of Aluminium powder stems from multiple pages indicating erroneously this is how one produces fine mesh Al powder. The instructions from these pages call for a coffee grinder. Following the instructions from these pages is likely to cause a dust explosion from static
discharge inside the grinder or from the intense friction.

 

[Atomicrox]

Even though I'm not surprised, I find it funny that people in the laser hobby tend to have similar other mad scientist hobbies like HV and pyrotechnics/explosives.

So true! This forum must have the largest concentration of mad scientists on the web, with possible exception of 4HV

 

[Atomicrox]

Update! Here are pictures of my two samples. They should be both around 25g but I haven't weighted. Both came with a very thin oxide coat (far less than 1mm), no superoxide as far as I can see. Looks whiter on the pictures than it really is (I only had a crappy camera).

I cutted (under oil) a slice from the sample on the yellow lid bottle to throw on water. Nice boom You can see the metallic luster but it's tarnishing slowly.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

Update! Here are pictures of my two samples. They should be both around 25g but I haven't weighted. Both came with a very thin oxide coat (far less than 1mm), no superoxide as far as I can see. Looks whiter on the pictures than it really is (I only had a crappy camera).

I cutted (under oil) a slice from the sample on the yellow lid bottle to throw on water. Nice boom You can see the metallic luster but it's tarnishing slowly.

Very clean Sodium sample.. right, I don't see any superoxide formation either.


Beautiful sample btw!~

 

[Sigurthr]

That is a REALLY nice sample! How much did it cost ya?

 

[Atomicrox]

Thanks guys, it's a nice sample indeed!

Got it here, 16GBP + shipping.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

That is a REALLY nice sample! How much did it cost ya?

For all those wanting to try the Sodium metal synth,
I'll just add the link here..

This synth breaks the reactivity chain due to the high heat involved.

Link here:

How to Make Sodium Metal [HD Video Tutorial]

:beer:

I'll confirm that this is a real synth and that it does work rather well! :san::beer::beer:

 

[Atomicrox]

This looks better than the NaOH electrolysis method! But then again finding Mg powder is probably as hard as finding Na

Have you tried the electrolysis method?

 

[millirad]

Sodium is fun! Be careful though I have heard rumours of what happens if a piece pops out of water onto human flesh. Might as well be thermite.

 

[DashApple]

Potassium metal can be made with potassium hydroxide and magnesium metal when heated in a beaker under a high temperature inert oil , with the use of a alcohol ( carnt remember the exact one )

 

[Atomicrox]

I'm not gonna try it (and I advise no one to, must be dangerous as hell) but I'm really curious to see sodium metal being microwaved. Found no videos on the tube.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

This looks better than the NaOH electrolysis method! But then again finding Mg powder is probably as hard as finding Na

Have you tried the electrolysis method?

Yes, I have tried it and it absolutely must be done while salt is being heated to high temperature in it's molten state in a crucible.
I did mine using BaTiO4 ceramic since it's fairly inert. The yield amount was small, others have been very fortunate and had better success. Other people swear by using Aluminium crucibles.
---> You need quite a bit of KCl to get any yield.
below is a video showing Davy's Synthesis method.




Sodium Syth with high current. 12V ~15A




The Mg synthesis is actually quite good as it's so straight forward but isn't as pure as the above!

---About Sodium safety,
actually my middle school chemistry teacher had a pea sized chunk of sodium launch it's self from a large sodium in water explosion
and go down his back under his shirt while still burning. You've never seen a guy scream so loud in your life!
Our chemistry teacher needed some "slight surgery" to the burn area, Alkali+2nd degree. After that demo he stopped doing that experiment.
Note to anyone attempting Alkali metals in water... wear a protective apron, gloves and a full face shield. Sodium will tend to spit bits of itself everywhere after a large "hydrogen explosion", if those chunks land on you they'll continue to burn until fully reacted. No amount of water or CO2 will put them out. Not only is this going to burn you "heat wise" but it'll also cause damage from being extremely Alkaline further complicating your burn.
Read a similar story below.

http://eastpdxnews.com/general-news...emistry-lesson-learned-at-david-douglas-high/

 

[Sigurthr]

Wow! I am surprised at how large the yield is from the NaOH electrolysis! I'd seen NaCl electrolysis done a decade or so ago but it used a carbon arc furnace and had major thermal insulation to keep the salt molten. I didn't think about trying it with a lower melting hydroxide. I don't think I'll mess with Na too much, too explosive for me. But I'd love to try a KOH electrolysis some time, if the melting point is low enough to be feasible.

Speaking of electrolysis, where do you get cheap good electrodes from? Generally the Platinum or rhodium plated meshes and rods are VERY expensive and hard to get and there doesn't seem to be a good source for large carbon electrodes any more like there was when carbon arc cutting was more popular.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

Wow! I am surprised at how large the yield is from the NaOH electrolysis! I'd seen NaCl electrolysis done a decade or so ago but it used a carbon arc furnace and had major thermal insulation to keep the salt molten. I didn't think about trying it with a lower melting hydroxide. I don't think I'll mess with Na too much, too explosive for me. But I'd love to try a KOH electrolysis some time, if the melting point is low enough to be feasible.

Speaking of electrolysis, where do you get cheap good electrodes from? Generally the Platinum or rhodium plated meshes and rods are VERY expensive and hard to get and there doesn't seem to be a good source for large carbon electrodes any more like there was when carbon arc cutting was more popular.

Expensive electrode aren't required for this synthesis as you'll probably end up ruining them.
Steel electrodes work and I'd think Carbon would work as well.
The sodium Synth video uses steel electrodes.
However if you want Carbon electrodes, those can be found
in
a) as carbon brushes for electric motors
b)large ones at a welding shop, as Carbon electrodes are "still" used for cutting metal.
c) Art supply store. You still can find very large Carbon rods (graphite) still for doing rubbings. The Graphite availible is very pure.
d) http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CARBON-AR...d=100011&prg=8934&rk=0&rkt=10&sd=330752317892

 

[Sigurthr]

Didn't know about the art store graphite, good idea! I thought the electrodes had to be inert and of high purity in order to not have competing reactions limit the yield. This was a major issue when I tried to make KClO3 years ago via electrolysis. I tried every type of steel and nonferrous metal I could get my hands on but no luck.