POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

[aryntha]

The problem with permits is that the government will want a valid reason WHY you need a 500+mw laser pointer. What valid reasons are there for having a pointer of that power? I can't think of too many. Reasons like "it's cool" and "for fun" wouldn't count.

See, that's not the kind of permit i'm talking about.. I'm not sure how something like that would be developed for lasers, but with radio, I don't have to prove to the government why I need to transmit at 1.5kW. (Other services actually *do*. Ham radio does not.) -- nor are my radios registered and tracked (again, not the case for other classes of licenses.) Privileges are based on level of knowledge proven (test, etc) - not by having to rationalize the "why".

I do understand that by nature, radio is a bit different, but it is a rather 'non intrusive' licensing scheme.

There could be an "experimenter's license" that simply says you've had the education to deal with Class 4. The whole class, that is. And it involves maybe reading a laser safety workbook and completing an online test. Maybe one test 'element' for IIIb, and another more extensive one for Class 4.

I doubt it'd ever happen, but I'd rather see this than a ban. Outright bans say, "None of you people know what you're doing so we're going to say no.". I'm just saying if I was faced with a choice of permitting or a ban, I'd be all over the permit scenario.

 

[redhook]

See, that's not the kind of permit i'm talking about.. I'm not sure how something like that would be developed for lasers, but with radio, I don't have to prove to the government why I need to transmit at 1.5kW.

You are not allowed to use more power than is required to communicate with whatever station you are talking to. If you cause interference you may well have to justify why you were using that much power.

 

[electros]

this whole thread seems like a giant troll with vote options of either "Yes ban them" or "Im an idiot who thinks they shouldnt be banned" And when people express valid reasoning you basically tell em to stfu and get out.

Seriously asking laser enthusiasts to try and get their hobby banned? also, this has been beaten to death and anything said isnt new so I'm not even going to bother arguing my viewpoint here (which is, government shouldnt make things illegal due to the .00001% who abuse them)

Whats with all the paranoia, really. You guys seem to think people are gonna be blinding like gattling guns with these things, taking out entire crowds of people.. blinding hundreds of cops with guns. Let me tell you something, if I was going to go on a rampage or rob a bank, I'll take a 300$ glock over a 200$ laser any day. You need to hit someone with a glock anywhere in their body to put them out of comission. You need to hit someone with a laser in their eyeball, not an easy target. you really think you are going to win against multiple cops?

You might blind 1 person before you get shot or the shit beaten out of you and arrested, you really think you're going to put all these people out of comission before they shoot, taze or even just punch you?

A laser is a really shitty weapon for someone going out to intentionally cause havoc, the issue with lasers is good-meaning dumbasses who make a stupid decision and blind their friend or themselves by mistake.

You might want to wear a helmet and lock yourself in the bomb shelter if you are afraid of getting randomly blinded by a laser from a dumbass on the street.

 

[Razako]

this whole thread seems like a giant troll with vote options of either "Yes ban them" or "Im an idiot who thinks they shouldnt be banned" And when people express valid reasoning you basically tell em to stfu and get out.

Seriously asking laser enthusiasts to try and get their hobby banned? also, this has been beaten to death and anything said isnt new so I'm not even going to bother arguing my viewpoint here (which is, government shouldnt make things illegal due to the .00001% who abuse them)

Whats with all the paranoia, really. You guys seem to think people are gonna be blinding like gattling guns with these things, taking out entire crowds of people.. blinding hundreds of cops with guns. Let me tell you something, if I was going to go on a rampage or rob a bank, I'll take a 300$ glock over a 200$ laser any day. You need to hit someone with a glock anywhere in their body to put them out of comission. You need to hit someone with a laser in their eyeball, not an easy target. you really think you are going to win against multiple cops?

You might blind 1 person before you get shot or the shit beaten out of you and arrested, you really think you're going to put all these people out of comission before they shoot, taze or even just punch you?

A laser is a really shitty weapon for someone going out to intentionally cause havoc, the issue with lasers is good-meaning dumbasses who make a stupid decision and blind their friend or themselves by mistake.

You might want to wear a helmet and lock yourself in the bomb shelter if you are afraid of getting randomly blinded by a laser from a dumbass on the street.

well said.

 

[BlueMeanie445]

this whole thread seems like a giant troll with vote options of either "Yes ban them" or "Im an idiot who thinks they shouldnt be banned" And when people express valid reasoning you basically tell em to stfu and get out.

Seriously asking laser enthusiasts to try and get their hobby banned? also, this has been beaten to death and anything said isnt new so I'm not even going to bother arguing my viewpoint here (which is, government shouldnt make things illegal due to the .00001% who abuse them)

Whats with all the paranoia, really. You guys seem to think people are gonna be blinding like gattling guns with these things, taking out entire crowds of people.. blinding hundreds of cops with guns. Let me tell you something, if I was going to go on a rampage or rob a bank, I'll take a 300$ glock over a 200$ laser any day. You need to hit someone with a glock anywhere in their body to put them out of comission. You need to hit someone with a laser in their eyeball, not an easy target. you really think you are going to win against multiple cops?

You might blind 1 person before you get shot or the shit beaten out of you and arrested, you really think you're going to put all these people out of comission before they shoot, taze or even just punch you?

A laser is a really shitty weapon for someone going out to intentionally cause havoc, the issue with lasers is good-meaning dumbasses who make a stupid decision and blind their friend or themselves by mistake.

You might want to wear a helmet and lock yourself in the bomb shelter if you are afraid of getting randomly blinded by a laser from a dumbass on the street.

You know you may get the point of a post if you actually read it, though thats just some advice. Take it or leave it.


When the thought of being at the receiving end of such a thing crosses my mind it is worrisome. The potential is there and it will happen. I did not say to ME, but in general. Somebody will use one for a criminal act plain and simple. It has been happening over and over to planes and now people are using them for getting cut off instead of putting the car in reverse, and a bunch of other scenarios in another thread.

The recognition of this type of use is more than obvious with all these threads about "defending yourself" and will continue to evolve with the availability of cheap higher and higher power lasers, and eventually in crimes for personal gain, robbery and evasion, however you want to put it.

If you are saying this wont happen, you are simply wrong.


The scenario of my post was nothing more than hypothetical. This thread is about banning, is it not wise to post an opinion??

BTW, who would rob a bank without a gun and just a laser? And who said anything about blinding crowds of people, and "hundreds" of police? :wtf:

I said any pursuing cars, lol not an army. Should have mentioned my small town mentality.

Would you be able to chase somebody whos projecting a square dot the size of your windshield with class 4 umph behind it?

You must be able to squint like no other.


You have effectively spun my post into what I can picture to be Arnold walking around terminating eyes with a WL arctic?

Anybody home?? :thinking:

 

[Razako]

You know you may get the point of a post if you actually read it, though thats just some advice. Take it or leave it.


When the thought of being at the receiving end of such a thing crosses my mind it is worrisome. The potential is there and it will happen. I did not say to ME, but in general. Somebody will use one for a criminal act plain and simple. It has been happening over and over to planes and now people are using them for getting cut off instead of putting the car in reverse, and a bunch of other scenarios in another thread.

The recognition of this type of use is more than obvious with all these threads about "defending yourself" and will continue to evolve with the availability of cheap higher and higher power lasers, and eventually in crimes for personal gain, robbery and evasion, however you want to put it.

If you are saying this wont happen, you are simply wrong.


The scenario of my post was nothing more than hypothetical. This thread is about banning, is it not wise to post an opinion??

BTW, who would rob a bank without a gun and just a laser? And who said anything about blinding crowds of people, and "hundreds" of police? :wtf:

I said any pursuing cars, lol not an army. Should have mentioned my small town mentality.

Would you be able to chase somebody whos projecting a square dot the size of your windshield with class 4 umph behind it?

You must be able to squint like no other.


You have effectively spun my post into what I can picture to be Arnold walking around terminating eyes with a WL arctic?

Anybody home?? :thinking:

The point remains that you can already do everything you described with a plain old 200mw green or even a HID flashlight when it comes to blinding pursuing cops.

 

[Tech_Junkie]

You know you may get the point of a post if you actually read it, though thats just some advice. Take it or leave it.

 

[BlueMeanie445]

The point remains that you can already do everything you described with a plain old 200mw green or even a HID flashlight when it comes to blinding pursuing cops.

Lasers in general + bad press (ie WL, China 532's and the like) = popularity.

On youtube alone the word laser yields ' “laser” results 1 - 20 of about 362,000

Google >Google almost 1 million results for 'burning laser'

In neither case are they all pointers or hand held units, but a good chunk are.

People who may have the intent to use a laser for criminal gain are more than likely smart enough to buy the latest and greatest.

200mW 532 is so yesterday :tired:

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? Again its just a thought on how things may go as the watt rated lasers become common place. The weapon potential has been explored by military for how many years? Now these weapons are in the publics hands and have no Geneva Convention controlling their use. The military has tried to get blinding weapons onto the field. If I remember correctly it wasnt long ago that they were developing backpack sized units to blind opposing troops, 90's or so.

I just happen to be confident in how it MAY unfold.

BTW, thanks for the rep, you sir are too kind:beer:

 

[Tech_Junkie]

BTW, thanks for the rep, you sir are too kind:beer:

Keep it up and you'll get more. You remind me of my last girl friend. She didnt have the grace to know when to drop things, and always needed the last word.

 

[jbtm]

Id say no because like getting a handgun/shotgun, you need to be responsible. I dont need a license to shoot a gun, but i do need one to own a gun. I'm at the age that I can, and ever since age 12 I've been shooting handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I simply fall on this because a laser should always be treated as a gun. Something you never aim at people, never fire (turn on) when someones in front of you, or even aim with a potential risk that you can accidentally hit the laser button. Like a gun, one needs to know the responsibility to handle a gun, as well as a laser.

Yes a laser can be more dangerous in the fact that it can reflect. A gun, well, your either wounded or dead...but the chances of a reflection at long distance (car reflectors) is not likely with a gun. I believe class 4 should be open to the public market in terms of online only, and possibly make it so you need a license that states you know how to handle a class 4, proper safety, and everything required to use one.

It should be kept to the online market only because even when I was 5, I was able to walk to the dollar store and get a 5mw red laser for $1, they never age question me. Online requires (for the most part) somewhere along the line of a credit card holder...So the person is at least 18+. Also, if a kid steals a parents credit card, these days you'll find out the same day your online-account says a payment was charged, and you can trace it back to what it was. So bad parents is the only fault there.

This is just my opinion. No reasons to go crazy over anything I said. This is just how "I" see it, and that being, things don't change for my perspective on law.

 

[BlueMeanie445]

Keep it up and you'll get more. You remind me of my last girl friend. She didnt have the grace to know when to drop things, and always needed the last word.

When people are ignorant and twist my words, I will respond. Is there like some secret regime here?? I thought the idea is to discuss things on a forum, not repress them.

The person that refered me mentioned the drama but geez.

 

[Razako]

When people are ignorant and twist my words, I will respond. Is there like some secret regime here?? I thought the idea is to discuss things on a forum, not repress them.

The person that refered me mentioned the drama but geez.

It's just that this particular topic has been discussed to death several times over and people get annoyed when it gets brought back up.

 

[BlueMeanie445]

It's just that this particular topic has been discussed to death several times over and people get annoyed when it gets brought back up.

Sooo, you cant discuss current threads cause they annoy people whom have read similar in the past. Which you can choose not to read, aaand its bad to bring up old posts, especially when its threads that annoy random people?

My URL reads LPF but I think ive landed on WL forum :bowdown:

 

[Tech_Junkie]

this debate doesn't really have any merit. Kind of like the statement "If me aunt had balls, she would be my uncle".

Man we have argued this to death tons of time.

This thread does not seek to contribute to the forum in a healthy discussion, rather to incite flaim wars and problems. This thread does not belong here.

This topic has already been discussed to death.
This poll is :horse:

OK DO I SERIOUSLY NEED TO BE THE VOICE OF REASON FOR THE 10th TIME? I've already commented on this about 10x in the arctic threads and it's getting old.

These are all paranoid, retarded threads.

Its because this keeps coming up. Its been discussed a ton of times. All this does if fuel paranoia. This thread should have never been started.

There, case closed.

Feel free to close this or let it die. No further posts needed.

we are still kicking a dead horse here, so I will end my rant.

It's just that this particular topic has been discussed to death several times over and people get annoyed when it gets brought back up.

.....

 

[Seoul_lasers]

Might help if you actually added a poll. But...

Might as well ban cars.. and hammers, and screwdrivers.. and ice.. and pretty much anything else, and pad everything that's left since pretty much everything that exists can be used to hurt yourself or someone else if used stupidly.

You forget the key thing here... lasers aren't dangerous.. neither are guns.. explosives, or anything else. Without a key ingredient... PEOPLE... they're all totally harmless. So, It makes more sense to ban people, don't you think?

I can't agree more !!
People don't need more stupid rules to live by.

Banning something has never and will never work.

What are we going to do about the new casio projectors? they use 24W worth of 445nm, do we ban those new projectors because of the potential risk of someone opening one up and using it as an anti vehicular weapon.
I mean where does the paranoia stop. Lasers have become a part of our existence, there is nothing we can do now.

 

[Razako]

Sooo, you cant discuss current threads cause they annoy people whom have read similar in the past. Which you can choose not to read, aaand its bad to bring up old posts, especially when its threads that annoy random people?

My URL reads LPF but I think ive landed on WL forum :bowdown:

Nah if it were the WL forum you'd get banned or something. Nobody is actually stopping you from discussing this. Just know that flamewars and neg rep will result. You have a right to bring it up and people have a right to disagree with you.

Anyway this whole issue offends people because fundamentally it's asking the question of whether or not technical advancements are always a good thing. Whenever new technologies appear there are always new dangers and problems related to them. As a result some people seem to think that the answer lies in simply stopping or restricting new developments which make things faster/stronger/more powerful. Their reasoning is that stupid people and criminals will use the new tech for bad things. There will ALWAYS be people who abuse a good thing and it's not fair or right to restrict or stop technologies advancement just because of a few bad apples.

There's plenty of groups for people who are scared of change and new things. They're called the Amish and the taliban.