"OMG! They Killed LPF!"
"You Bastards!"
(SouthPark reference - I would put an appropriate emoticon here to convey my intent - but new buggy software won't let me!)
c0ld, in my original thread which I posted a few hours after everyone was forced over to the new and still unstable forum software (thread destroyed by crash later that day, and subsequently re-posted here -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=40040
...I repeatedly implored you to restore read-only access to the original LPF posts, giving several reasons why this was needed, as well as stating -
Later that day, I was horrified to discover that not only had you opted to ignore my advice, but that you had actually KILLED the main URL for the original LPF forum altogether!!!
I did not make this request so vigorously (apparently, not strongly enough!) without VERY good reasons, and I do not think you understand the full ramifications of ignoring this advice.
The problems this is causing (roughly in order of increasing severity) include -
1) Checking for Lost or Missing Posts in New Forum - this problem prevents members from being able to check for lost/missing posts in the new forum (by comparing with their original ones). I would remind you that YOU YOURSELF asked forums members to do this -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=38786
This is in fact a REALLY good idea when transferring to a new forum (especially one that seems to have a predisposition for deleting posts!) But by immediately killing even read-access to the original LPF posts, you are preventing members from being able to accomplish this!
2) Laser Notes - Many members (myself included), have amassed a large collection of personal laser-related files, notes, etc. on their hard drive, which often include references to specific LPF threads for further review, details or information. All of this has now been rendered meaningless - not only can't we view the posts, we can't even tell what they were! Normally, we could at least go through & update our stuff to the new links, but by locking members out of the original posts, you are preventing them from even being able to do even that!
3) Bookmarks / Favorites - Members, Lurkers, and MANY other ppl across the Internet have collected a bunch of bookmarks / favorites over the years for LPF threads of interest - ALL of these bookmarks are now BROKEN - with no way to even tell where they go to! To make matters worse, because of an error in the design of the original forum (all thread pages had the EXACT SAME HTML Title/Description tags), all of these bookmarks are likely to have the exact same name -
"Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers"
so they won't even be able to tell what or why they bookmarked them!!!
4) Fixing Mangled Content - Much of the content in many of the posts was mangled and/or destroyed by multiple errors in the conversion process. This included broken, destroyed or mangled emoticons, fonts, sizes, inline links, quotes, certain other chars, and images / attachments, resulting in a loss of meaning, mangling, obfuscating and in some cases even destroying much of the original content of LPF.
The preferable solution (either pre- or post-conversion) would be on the server side (and this is an issue that still needs to be looked at - c0ld, there are MANY capable ppl here that would be more than willing to help with you that!) But as a worst-case alternative, members could compare their important posts with the original to see what had been damaged or destroyed, and individually "tweak" their new posts to try to fix some of the damage. But by locking members out of being able to view their own original posts, YOU ARE PREVENTING THEM FROM EVEN BEING ABLE TO DO THAT!
5) Mangled / Inaccessable Images - I offered a solution to this, but apparently it was not read or ignored? -
Even worse, for lurkers and visitors, not only are these images not being displayed properly, but THEY ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED PERMISSION TO ACCESS THEM AT ALL!!!
For example, log-out, then try to make sense of the first few posts in this thread -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=25615
As you well know, at any point in time on LPF, the lurkers VASTLY OUTNUMBER (by hundreds & hundreds!) the # of logged-in regular users. By denying all of these ppl access to much of the content in a way that is comprehensible, you are basically telling all of these lurkers to GO F THEMSELVES!
The solution I had proposed would conceivably fix all of that (at least for the older posts). Indeed, individual members could even fix their own posts themselves (by replacing the attachment with an IMG tag, pointing to the original image URL). But by denying members the ability to even view their original posts, YOU ARE PREVENTING THEM FROM FIXING THIS!
6) Inter-Thread Links - Much of the content of this site makes reference to other threads & posts, through the use of Inter-Thread Links. These SHOULD have been automatically updated as part of any properly implemented conversion process. Unfortunately, that was not the case. As a result, all of these references are now BROKEN, damaging or destroying much of the content in the process!
For example, how is the content of the following thread not totally destroyed? -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=20045
By allowing at least read-only access to the original posts, ppl could at least SEE what was being referenced.
More importantly, many members would likely want to update the links in their own posts, to point to the right location on the new forum. But in order to do that, they need to be able to SEE what they were pointing-to originally. By denying members from even viewing their original posts, YOU ARE MAKING THAT IMPOSSIBLE!
7) Links from other Web Sites - Many other websites across the Internet have links to important threads of interest at LPF (Yahoo alone shows thousands of incoming links!) You have just handed all of these webmasters an early Christmas present - broken links on their own web sites!
Now, the better webmasters, when confronted with this sort of thing, will try to determine the new link locations, and fix the links on their site. But as described above, you have currently made this task impossible even for MEMBERS, let alone someone from the outside!
Broken links make a site look bad, so after some frustration trying to fix them, all of these webmasters will have no choice but to DELETE ALL OF THESE LINKS TO LPF!!!
Not only is this going to generate some bad feelings towards LPF from other web site owners all over the globe, it is also going to DESTROY all of the PageRank coming from all of these inbound links!!!
As the owner of LPF, the exceptionally good PageRank this site enjoys (as a direct result of all of these incoming links) is one of your most VALUABLE ASSETS of this site. The current situation is threatening TO DESTROY THIS ASSET!
Which finally leads me to...
8) Search Engines - I have many years experience in this area, including, most relevantly, experience in how to transfer web sites to new software & systems WITHOUT DESTROYING THEIR SEARCH ENGINE RANKINGS IN THE PROCESS!!!
Let me explain how this works...
Last I checked, LPF had about 11,900 pages listed in Google's index, and a whopping 94,875 pages listed in Yahoo! That's Fantastic! LET'S TRY NOT TO DESTROY ALL THAT, SHALL WE???
The search engine bots (Googlebot, Yahoo's Slurp, etc.) are constantly re-visiting all of these indexed pages, watching-out for (in this case) any changed or deleted pages. They are going to notice that each of these tens of thousands of LPF pages in their index are now all forwarding to new URLs. For example, this page -
http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1240766348
now forwards to this one -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/?num=1240766348
That might be OK, if that page displayed the actual post! But it doesn't.
Now, Google is going to see each of these as a separate URL (because of the ?num= parameter on the end). But it is ALSO going to see that EVERY ONE OF THESE PAGES NOW HAS THE EXACT SAME CONTENT! (the new forum home page) Google's "Duplicate Page Filter" is going to kick-in, and each of these tens of thousands of pages in turn is going to be dropped from Google's index!!!
THIS IS AN EXCELLENT WAY FOR AN ESTABLISHED SITE TO FLUSH ITS SEARCH ENGINE RANKINGS DOWN THE TOILET!
You might even get hit with an auto-generated spam penalty, for having so many different inbound links all forwarding to the exact same content!!!
Because of these problems, whenever you make a major structural change to an existing well-indexed site (ESPECIALLY a large one like LPF!) that actually changes all the URLs (and not just the contents), you either need to VERY carefully forward each page to the correct replacement (not done in this case), or LEAVE THE ORIGINAL CONTENT INTACT WHILE YOU COAX GOOGLE OVER TO INDEX ALL OF THE NEW DESIGN.
I have seen many sites who's search engine rankings were DECIMATED for failing to abide by this rule. And because it can take YEARS to build a site up to this level, just like staring into a burner's beam without Goggles, if this destructive process is allowed to proceed too far, EVEN WITH FOLLOW-ON CORRECTIVE ACTION, A SITE OFTEN NEVER FULLY RECOVERS!!!
Now, this may be GREAT if you're looking to reduce your server load by making it so no one can find your site (LOL), but NOT so good for your visitors & advertisers!
Now that you have a better appreciation for the full scope of these problems, let me be explicitly clear here -
None of the above problems are because "We Just Need to get used to the New Site"; and
None of them are going to be solved by putting on rose-colored glasses, "thinking positive thoughts", or "whistling a happy tune", as some here would seem to suggest.
(Indeed, IMHO, such thinking serves as a dangerous distraction from us recognizing, and resolving, the urgent issues at hand!)
Amazingly though, all of these problems are the result of, and can be solved by, one simple little thing...
c0ld, PLEASE restore at least read-only access to the original forum posts - at least until we can get all of this straightened-out!
Thank you.
"You Bastards!"
(SouthPark reference - I would put an appropriate emoticon here to convey my intent - but new buggy software won't let me!)
c0ld, in my original thread which I posted a few hours after everyone was forced over to the new and still unstable forum software (thread destroyed by crash later that day, and subsequently re-posted here -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=40040
...I repeatedly implored you to restore read-only access to the original LPF posts, giving several reasons why this was needed, as well as stating -
and again -
At the time I made this request to you, the original LPF forum & page were still intact, just set in "Maintenance Mode".
Later that day, I was horrified to discover that not only had you opted to ignore my advice, but that you had actually KILLED the main URL for the original LPF forum altogether!!!
I did not make this request so vigorously (apparently, not strongly enough!) without VERY good reasons, and I do not think you understand the full ramifications of ignoring this advice.
The problems this is causing (roughly in order of increasing severity) include -
1) Checking for Lost or Missing Posts in New Forum - this problem prevents members from being able to check for lost/missing posts in the new forum (by comparing with their original ones). I would remind you that YOU YOURSELF asked forums members to do this -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=38786
This is in fact a REALLY good idea when transferring to a new forum (especially one that seems to have a predisposition for deleting posts!) But by immediately killing even read-access to the original LPF posts, you are preventing members from being able to accomplish this!
2) Laser Notes - Many members (myself included), have amassed a large collection of personal laser-related files, notes, etc. on their hard drive, which often include references to specific LPF threads for further review, details or information. All of this has now been rendered meaningless - not only can't we view the posts, we can't even tell what they were! Normally, we could at least go through & update our stuff to the new links, but by locking members out of the original posts, you are preventing them from even being able to do even that!
3) Bookmarks / Favorites - Members, Lurkers, and MANY other ppl across the Internet have collected a bunch of bookmarks / favorites over the years for LPF threads of interest - ALL of these bookmarks are now BROKEN - with no way to even tell where they go to! To make matters worse, because of an error in the design of the original forum (all thread pages had the EXACT SAME HTML Title/Description tags), all of these bookmarks are likely to have the exact same name -
"Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers"
so they won't even be able to tell what or why they bookmarked them!!!
4) Fixing Mangled Content - Much of the content in many of the posts was mangled and/or destroyed by multiple errors in the conversion process. This included broken, destroyed or mangled emoticons, fonts, sizes, inline links, quotes, certain other chars, and images / attachments, resulting in a loss of meaning, mangling, obfuscating and in some cases even destroying much of the original content of LPF.
The preferable solution (either pre- or post-conversion) would be on the server side (and this is an issue that still needs to be looked at - c0ld, there are MANY capable ppl here that would be more than willing to help with you that!) But as a worst-case alternative, members could compare their important posts with the original to see what had been damaged or destroyed, and individually "tweak" their new posts to try to fix some of the damage. But by locking members out of being able to view their own original posts, YOU ARE PREVENTING THEM FROM EVEN BEING ABLE TO DO THAT!
5) Mangled / Inaccessable Images - I offered a solution to this, but apparently it was not read or ignored? -
Much of the original content of this site was created based on the understanding that attached images appeared inline at the bottom of the posts, and their meaning is mangled or even destroyed if this is not the case! (For example - "Hey, check this out! - {pic}")
Even worse, for lurkers and visitors, not only are these images not being displayed properly, but THEY ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED PERMISSION TO ACCESS THEM AT ALL!!!
For example, log-out, then try to make sense of the first few posts in this thread -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=25615
As you well know, at any point in time on LPF, the lurkers VASTLY OUTNUMBER (by hundreds & hundreds!) the # of logged-in regular users. By denying all of these ppl access to much of the content in a way that is comprehensible, you are basically telling all of these lurkers to GO F THEMSELVES!
The solution I had proposed would conceivably fix all of that (at least for the older posts). Indeed, individual members could even fix their own posts themselves (by replacing the attachment with an IMG tag, pointing to the original image URL). But by denying members the ability to even view their original posts, YOU ARE PREVENTING THEM FROM FIXING THIS!
6) Inter-Thread Links - Much of the content of this site makes reference to other threads & posts, through the use of Inter-Thread Links. These SHOULD have been automatically updated as part of any properly implemented conversion process. Unfortunately, that was not the case. As a result, all of these references are now BROKEN, damaging or destroying much of the content in the process!
For example, how is the content of the following thread not totally destroyed? -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=20045
By allowing at least read-only access to the original posts, ppl could at least SEE what was being referenced.
More importantly, many members would likely want to update the links in their own posts, to point to the right location on the new forum. But in order to do that, they need to be able to SEE what they were pointing-to originally. By denying members from even viewing their original posts, YOU ARE MAKING THAT IMPOSSIBLE!
7) Links from other Web Sites - Many other websites across the Internet have links to important threads of interest at LPF (Yahoo alone shows thousands of incoming links!) You have just handed all of these webmasters an early Christmas present - broken links on their own web sites!
Now, the better webmasters, when confronted with this sort of thing, will try to determine the new link locations, and fix the links on their site. But as described above, you have currently made this task impossible even for MEMBERS, let alone someone from the outside!
Broken links make a site look bad, so after some frustration trying to fix them, all of these webmasters will have no choice but to DELETE ALL OF THESE LINKS TO LPF!!!
Not only is this going to generate some bad feelings towards LPF from other web site owners all over the globe, it is also going to DESTROY all of the PageRank coming from all of these inbound links!!!
As the owner of LPF, the exceptionally good PageRank this site enjoys (as a direct result of all of these incoming links) is one of your most VALUABLE ASSETS of this site. The current situation is threatening TO DESTROY THIS ASSET!
Which finally leads me to...
8) Search Engines - I have many years experience in this area, including, most relevantly, experience in how to transfer web sites to new software & systems WITHOUT DESTROYING THEIR SEARCH ENGINE RANKINGS IN THE PROCESS!!!
Let me explain how this works...
Last I checked, LPF had about 11,900 pages listed in Google's index, and a whopping 94,875 pages listed in Yahoo! That's Fantastic! LET'S TRY NOT TO DESTROY ALL THAT, SHALL WE???
The search engine bots (Googlebot, Yahoo's Slurp, etc.) are constantly re-visiting all of these indexed pages, watching-out for (in this case) any changed or deleted pages. They are going to notice that each of these tens of thousands of LPF pages in their index are now all forwarding to new URLs. For example, this page -
http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1240766348
now forwards to this one -
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/?num=1240766348
That might be OK, if that page displayed the actual post! But it doesn't.
Now, Google is going to see each of these as a separate URL (because of the ?num= parameter on the end). But it is ALSO going to see that EVERY ONE OF THESE PAGES NOW HAS THE EXACT SAME CONTENT! (the new forum home page) Google's "Duplicate Page Filter" is going to kick-in, and each of these tens of thousands of pages in turn is going to be dropped from Google's index!!!
THIS IS AN EXCELLENT WAY FOR AN ESTABLISHED SITE TO FLUSH ITS SEARCH ENGINE RANKINGS DOWN THE TOILET!
You might even get hit with an auto-generated spam penalty, for having so many different inbound links all forwarding to the exact same content!!!
Because of these problems, whenever you make a major structural change to an existing well-indexed site (ESPECIALLY a large one like LPF!) that actually changes all the URLs (and not just the contents), you either need to VERY carefully forward each page to the correct replacement (not done in this case), or LEAVE THE ORIGINAL CONTENT INTACT WHILE YOU COAX GOOGLE OVER TO INDEX ALL OF THE NEW DESIGN.
I have seen many sites who's search engine rankings were DECIMATED for failing to abide by this rule. And because it can take YEARS to build a site up to this level, just like staring into a burner's beam without Goggles, if this destructive process is allowed to proceed too far, EVEN WITH FOLLOW-ON CORRECTIVE ACTION, A SITE OFTEN NEVER FULLY RECOVERS!!!
Now, this may be GREAT if you're looking to reduce your server load by making it so no one can find your site (LOL), but NOT so good for your visitors & advertisers!
Now that you have a better appreciation for the full scope of these problems, let me be explicitly clear here -
None of the above problems are because "We Just Need to get used to the New Site"; and
None of them are going to be solved by putting on rose-colored glasses, "thinking positive thoughts", or "whistling a happy tune", as some here would seem to suggest.
(Indeed, IMHO, such thinking serves as a dangerous distraction from us recognizing, and resolving, the urgent issues at hand!)
Amazingly though, all of these problems are the result of, and can be solved by, one simple little thing...
c0ld, PLEASE restore at least read-only access to the original forum posts - at least until we can get all of this straightened-out!
Thank you.
