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FrozenGate by Avery

Oculus Rift/HTC Vive / VR in general?

Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

I'm really not all that interested in VR from a gaming perspective at all. I have games in my steam library that I realistically will never touch, if I'm being honest with myself. But they were on sale, and so I have them.

What's amazing about VR to me, is the potential for curated experiences, interactivity, long distance control, and just general exploration.

Odds that I'll ever be able to afford a jetpack... exceedingly low. Odds that I will be able to strap a 360/180 camera onto a drone, and pilot it, with a VR headset... EXTREMELY high.

It's far from a perfect experience, but I'd suggest samsung gear vr for you. Resolution is not quite there, but you can use apps like neflix and lie down completely on your back, or side, or whatever, and still be watching a show on a virtual 80" screen.

Tried out a couple of rollercoaster experiences the other day actually... they are pretty cool :D

Waiting to try both HTC Vive, and Oculus, before I actually commit to either one.

Edit: VR is also setting new technical barriers that need to be overcome, which IMO is fantastic... higher pixel density screens are needed, 8x what we have now. GPU processing power is needed to push all of that, camera equipment HAS TO catch up to to actually provide a real feeling of presence. Flash based storage has to evolve to accommodate the HUGE files that are required for VR even now, let alone with higher resolutions, and even ISPs need to catch up... many people experience hic-ups streaming 4k... now imagine what happens when people want to stream 16-32k PER EYE.

Some of the most interesting experiences to me so far were from concerts actually. Resolution, both on capture, and playback is IMO the biggest stumbling block. I hope we'll also begin to somehow move away from the current setup, where you're looking at just to lenses, like in binoculars.
 
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Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

Today I got a notification from DHL that my Vive is currently being shipped from Prague, and is estimated to arrive on Wednesday. I feel crazy hyped, already bought virtual desktop on Steam.

 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

At this point my note 4 is too slow I believe. What I mean is yes things exist for it but that's old tech now and I would consider it when more when this Christmas rolls around and I get the latest fastest note (as long as it has a removable battery and microsd). Makes 0 sense to me to have a note without a lot of memory.
As far as Internet speed goes I just upgraded from 20 to 30 as I was getting 22 and Netflix says you need 25 for solid uhd playback and now I have 38. Tried it and it works at 4k without a hiccup and I've still got plenty of bandwidth. Besides some wired connections I also have 3 wifi signals I can use. One from the twc modem and 2 from my dual band netgear router.
The problem with bandwidth reminds me of how you need a higher reolution to get a much clearer picture for 3d. I am not sure if it's still true but I remember reading about how you really needed a lot more processing power and a higher frame rate to try and get smooth motion. It takes way more processing power to render essentially 2 screens at the same time at HD and you should also have 120 refresh rate too but that information came from memory so I'm not sure now. I do have 1 3d capable HD (1080p) high quality tv but most of what I watch is on the 40" uhd 120hz in our bedroom and that doesn't have 3d.
I do get a kick out of the 3d and probably have about 50 3d bluray but I only watch them in 3d after seeing the movie in 2d and never watch 3d in a theater. I find it distracting as I see the drop in resolution as the refresh rate just isn't fast enough to keep things smooth and you miss most of the picture because you are constantly looking for 3d effects. 3d is pretty much on the outs at this point as it never really lived up to the hype. I don't think the curved tvs are going to last either as I think they are too restrictions as far as where you can sit for the best picture quality. OLED is the new thing but as usual prices need to come down.
My sister just replaced the best tube tv ever made (at least to my knowledge) that still works but weighs a ton. 34" Sony wega 34xbr970. Couldn't get anyone to take the thing as it takes up a lot of space and weighs 190lbs. Kind of kills me but that's the way things are. She replaced it with a wall Samsung 75" uhd 3d the same series as my 40". She does have a really nice basement theater 120" 3d projector that I wouldn't mind owning. Mines only 84" although she can't compete with mine sound wise. Don't want to spend the $ to upgrade though. Can't justify it. I'll just wait until she upgrades and buy hers cheap:) Hmmm, I need to convince her she needs to upgrade it since she has upgraded all her other ones.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

@Pman - You can pretty much forget about removable batteries, but samsug is bringing back SD card slots back after the backlash they got from dropping it on the S6/Note 5 series.

The S7 really looks like a nice phone, and I expect the Note 6 to be good as well.

The Note 4 is not compatible with GearVr unfortunately. You can still buy developer version that is, but I don't see the point. I'm also betting you'll be able to get it free or cheap on upgrading the phone.

About TVs and monitors, things certainly have changed a great deal. I've seen a deal on an 80" 4k Vizio, cerified refurb for $1200. That's insane.

But there is definitely a lack of 4k content, and to actually run it, via PC, requires a lot of GPU horsepower. Have a 50" 4k Vizio in my bedroom, and I can stream netflix, and amazon UHD, via the TV apps, but that's where the 4k ends.

Have an alienware alpha hooked up to it, and it can't run the tv at 4k 60hz. It can at 30hz, but not well. They come with custom overclocked GeForce GTX 860M graphics card with 2GB of GDDR5. Runs 1080p, 120hz without effort.

For VR, what we're getting is 1080p (2160x1200, 1080x1200 per eye; 90 Hz).

Which seems fine, at first glance, except for the part where the screen so damn close to your eyes. All things considered rendering for that based on resolution and refresh rate alone, does not seem like an excessive task for today's GPUs.

So we're basically at 1k for first gen consumer release. To get to actual true to life resolution we'll need 16k/240hz per eye.

Safe bet gen 2 VR will be 4k, and going up from there. Meanwhile Samsung at least, announced that they are working on 11k panels, and the tech should be available for smartphones in 2019.

Personally I see VR taking off far more with, with more mobile platforms like the GearVR, vs in home units.

FireMyLaser said:
Today I got a notification from DHL that my Vive is currently being shipped from Prague, and is estimated to arrive on Wednesday. I feel crazy hyped, already bought virtual desktop on Steam.
Click to expand...

It uhm, goes without saying I'd LOVE a review/opinion, and pictures :drool:

I'm worried that the view quality, resolution, will disappoint me on both, and will be holding off until I can try both in person. The resolution of even the GearVR is higher, and that concerns me a great deal.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

The resolution, screen door effect, and other artifacts IS a problem, and it's just where we are right now. But I'm not too worried. If the game or experience is done well, you will forget about these issues and just loose yourself in the immersion.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

I've been reading that flickr came out with an app with some good pictures... going to try it later today to see.

The screen door effect is more a question of fill - the separation from pixel to pixel. Form what I've head/read, oculus actually did do a very good job of minimizing it. The problem is the pixels themselves are still somewhat large, and there are not enough of them.

What you said, about it being where we are technologically, is practically paraphrasing Luckey Palmer. I just think VR adoption will be hampered by the fact that people can now buy 4k TVs, but top the of the line VR (with similar outlay required) can only produce a relative experience of say 480p, and often less.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

I'm not paraphrasing Luckey Palmer. I'm stating my own opinion. First gen of VR is for gaming enthusiasts and that is fine enough. The display technology is not is *The* limiting factor, it is the machines that has to drive them. That demographic is with PC gamers today. Give it a few years. Expect second gen in 2018 or later. It will be glorious.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were, I just found it amusing that you said practically the same thing he did :p

I know I've inadvertently written things that were uncannily like the works of others, even had to deal with a plagiarism claim in college once.

The thing is, the machines are the limiting factor for rendered graphics. Not at all for more passive content.

Do agree with you, the future looks amazing... with both VR, AR, and I really hope some tech breakthrough to provide a tactile experience.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

Passive experiences are not nearly as effective at immersion and sense of presence like actual games are. If you are just watching 360 degree photos, then you are much more likely going to notice the pixels. But if you are in game and either try to solve a problem, or doge bullets, then it feels so much more real.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

Most relatable review so far;

What it's like to spend the weekend with the HTC Vive | TechRadar

Unfortunately it makes me all the more certain I'll have to go with the Oculus.

Clearing that much room would be impractical except in my living room, and even there, not easy. Would also mean having to move my gaming PC from bedroom.

you need at least a six and a half by five foot area. The more open space you have, the better, up to about 16 x 16 feet.
Click to expand...

Secondary issue I didn't really pay attention to, is that you need to mount the two sensors over your head, at opposing corners of the room. In it of itself, not a huge issue, but definitely makes moving the system around a pain, either needing a place where you can put down the cubes each time, or being stuck to one location.

@FireMyLaser - Lots of grumbling about orders having been cancelled due to payments not going through... may want to check into yours.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

Vive can 'downgrade' to just seated use, while Oculus cannot 'upgrade' to the room scale capability of the Vive. Oculus has already got tons of negative reviews regarding tracking issues, NDA, Facebook spyware, and disappointing launch titles; several of them don't even even make full use of VR, and could be played on normal monitor. A lot of people hold on to Oculus for just for brand recognition, but when looking at the facts, it is clear that the Vive is superior in most ways. Yes, Vive is more expensive, but if you would include the extra cost of Touch controllers for Oculus, then the price will be very similar.

Also, I used Paypal just to avoid the cancellation issues that people are having with their credit cards. Mine is still on its way, currently leaving Germany.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

Glad to hear yours is on the way :D

I really want to hear at least a short first person account.

I agree with you about the upgrade vs downgrade situation, and there's no argument that from a tech point the HTC wins big time. I think it's almost inexcusable that oculus has no passthrough camera. The thing is, it's not always about the better tech. Also based on initial reports, Oculus screen seems to be somewhat better in getting rid of the screendoor effect.

About privacy... honestly I'm not at all surprised, and I don't expect HTC to be any better.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

I don't know about HTC, never owned one of their products before. But I do trust Valve.
 
Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

My experience with HTC has been limited to the HTC M7, through Verizon, as my cellphone for 1.5 years. Since then I've switched to Samsungs, and I'm not coming back.

From the hardware side of things, at the time they had the very clear winner. Better speakers (way way better - this was the main selling point for me), better design, equivalent screen.

From the software and support side of things, that's where things went wonky. Between the two companies HTC and Verizon, some features, like wireless hotspot were disabled, to the degree that they would require rooting. Verizon blamed HTC, and HTC blamed verizon.

They also pushed updates that made the phone unusable, and as it turns out MANY of the same model phone had a problem with the camera in low light settings. Including mine. At first I couldn't even replicate the issue in store to get a replacement, after I did, my replacement came with the same problem!

With Valve, I do trust them more than facebook, sure, but they are still a business and do absolutely track what we do, and use the information. At the same time with HTC, I have zero trust... so I think it's a wash no matter which way you go.

I think we're kind of at a VCR vr betamax point in a way. Yes, the HTC Vive is technically superior, but it's definitely not as convenient and user friendly, which is what VR needs to be in order to have more mainstream adoption. Moving a PC to a livingroom, clearing space for it, physically mounting two boxes that both need to be plugged in, having to trace an area for use with a mouse, and sensors... that's asking a lot out of the box.
 
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Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

Verizon is not a Swedish service provider, maybe that is why I'm out of the loop.

Valve does collects data, but they are not hiding that they do. They do monthly hardware surveys, which you can deny. The purpose of these to keep track on what kind of computer hardware that Steam uses collectively have. This information is public, and it helps developers optimize their games. It is good for everyone.
 
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Re: Oculus Rift / Samsung Gear / VR in general?

I agree with you there, but don't think HTC will be any better. As companies with a moral barometer and mindful of privacy go, I certainly agree Valve is miles ahead of facebook.

Actually look at those stats from steam on a regular basis, and absolute agree, developers need to see that kind of data. It's surprising how many people are gaming on relatively weak systems. (Suppose I'm one of them, using a gtx460, still.)
 
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