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FrozenGate by Avery
Lasers Not For Sale
- Thread starter jayrob
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jayrob
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Hey guys thanks for all the good word there! 
This is the by far the largest and best laser forum. So much information and help available. I came here as a total newbie (just like many of us did), and was given all the help I asked for from great forum members. :
Once your hooked on this hobby, I honestly believe your hooked for life. At least I imagine myself being hooked for life...
So nothing has changed for me as far as wanting to show something that I discovered or learned, or to try to answer questions. You can be sure that I will continue to ask questions as well!
Of course!
Repair and help at cost is a completely different thing! (IMO)
Jay
This is the by far the largest and best laser forum. So much information and help available. I came here as a total newbie (just like many of us did), and was given all the help I asked for from great forum members. :
Once your hooked on this hobby, I honestly believe your hooked for life. At least I imagine myself being hooked for life...
So nothing has changed for me as far as wanting to show something that I discovered or learned, or to try to answer questions. You can be sure that I will continue to ask questions as well!
Arenared said:
Of course!
Repair and help at cost is a completely different thing! (IMO)
Jay
Raybo
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Hemlock Mike said:
It was a Crossman 760..........How the heck did you know?
Ray
I too support your decision to not sell turn key lasers.
I myself have no intention of selling any, although I will still buy a few more. (well one more )
For me, the enjoyment is in the design and building. The end result is excellent, but is second place.
Now that the 6x BooWay is on the way, the rest will be of my own build, for my own enjoyment. (minus the one holy grail)
Chuck
I myself have no intention of selling any, although I will still buy a few more. (well one more
)For me, the enjoyment is in the design and building. The end result is excellent, but is second place.
Now that the 6x BooWay
is on the way, the rest will be of my own build, for my own enjoyment. (minus the one holy grail)Chuck
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Raybo said:
It was a Crossman 760..........How the heck did you know?
Ray[/quote]
Heh - it's because he's an old fart ! Mike knows everything !! :-? Hehehehehehe
As a side note / thread jack - I recently got a few "airsoft" guns for my Aunt, who likes to chase off the greckles from her garden here in San Antonio - she WAS using a pellet gun (REALLY old) but I figured she would be safer with a 360 round magazine, 360fps automatic Airsoft instead....boy is she having fun, now !
So perhaps, the more things change, the more they stay the same....it used to be that the cheapest blu-ray laser out there was only available for $2,000, and now look at what is available to the hobbyist ! Jayrob MAY change his mind at some time in the future - perhaps some of the idiots of the world will stop being so afflicted with cranialanusitis, and start acting a tad more responsible with their "Toys", and things will ease up some here in the States !
V
V1.15
Guest
Depending on where you live in the US, this is still alive and wellHemlock Mike said:
ColdStl
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I'm also very grateful with ALL of the tutorials you have provided the forum Jay. Just wanted to say THANKS, and sorry to hear you have decided to quit selling.
After reading all the negative posts on here lately, I kind of suspected a downward spiral effect. I notice less and less comments from some of the "more mature" or "senior" : members that most of us on here look up to. I fear the day when Rckstr graduates from med school and will be to busy to sell his drivers (hopefully he will never stop selling..it's just a fear I have)....add Lava drives to that fear of halted sales as well.
Anyways...Jay, thanks again. It's members like you that have contributed to my addiction to this hobby. I hope one day I will be able to contribute to the forum like you have.
After reading all the negative posts on here lately, I kind of suspected a downward spiral effect. I notice less and less comments from some of the "more mature" or "senior" :
members that most of us on here look up to. I fear the day when Rckstr graduates from med school and will be to busy to sell his drivers (hopefully he will never stop selling..it's just a fear I have)....add Lava drives to that fear of halted sales as well. Anyways...Jay, thanks again. It's members like you that have contributed to my addiction to this hobby. I hope one day I will be able to contribute to the forum like you have.
I want to THANK YOU for reawaking my interest in lasers that originally started back in 1967 at the TCU seminar I attended. I also want to say THANKS for the great little lasers I purchased from you in the past year.
Knowing what can happen if the BEAST is awakened, I completely understand and support your decision to stop selling lasers not only on this Forum, but elsewhere.
Knowing what can happen if the BEAST is awakened, I completely understand and support your decision to stop selling lasers not only on this Forum, but elsewhere.
Raybo
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drgrant1 said:
Another "old fart"?
IMHO, most of the members here young or old understand that lasers are not toys and know how to use them.
It's a shame that we read about the few knuckleheads that have got uncle sam involved in this hobby (to much government).
Knowledge will never be illeagle, so I hope everyone here will be responsible and supportive of this hobby and those involved.
Thanks as always,
Ray
jayrob
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ColdStl, I appreciate those fine words of yours. Thank you...
You guys are being much too generous with your compliments! But thanks! Now in reality, the stuff I show is on the simple side. But I am very happy that I have contributed! And I will always still be learning new stuff, just like all of us!
It's great to learn new stuff...
Grant, you have sparked my interest in a different wavelength! I never knew that those HeNe lasers were so cool until you just gave me a couple out of the blue! Thank you! 
Jay
You guys are being much too generous with your compliments! But thanks! Now in reality, the stuff I show is on the simple side. But I am very happy that I have contributed! And I will always still be learning new stuff, just like all of us!
It's great to learn new stuff...
Grant, you have sparked my interest in a different wavelength!
I never knew that those HeNe lasers were so cool until you just gave me a couple out of the blue! Thank you! Jay
GoRdOn_B
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Ok please don't get me wrong here. I am not against your decision to stop selling or anything like that. If you truly feel like what like not building lasers to sell is right, then hey thats cool.
What i think is wrong (and may not apply to all) is this....
"Furthermore, promotion of Class IIIb or IEC Class 3B products for pointing or amusement violates FDA requirements and United States law."
Its things like this, that will make it illegal as a whole... and i thinks its wrong to take something that is normal and ok, and make it illegal. Since when does pointing a laser for amusement against the law or even making them subject to government approval. Saying.. "its not illegal, you just need a license" that costs an outrageous amount of money. That pretty much makes it illegal, and makes you a criminal if you don't submit to approval. I don't want to come off like i don't believe in safety either. There are sensible things like.... Don't shine them in to peoples eyes, or windows. Don't beam helicopters. Pretty much just don't be a dumb ass. It's those people who make us (people in general) think that is ok to be told that everyone needs approval. I thinks its easy to scapegoat stupid people in order to say that its for your own good. Lasers are dangerous.. We all know that, thats why the ones who care are always ranting about "Wear your f*king safety goggles" It's because they know it can be very dangerous... but they aren't telling you that you need their approval, or that they are going to turn you in to Big Brother. Those are ones who we should listen to. I would also like to thank those who do..
The choice is yours (ours) to make on our own free will, And it will continue to be as long as we let it. But when we just stop because some government agency says to.... thats when we lose it all. It will be before we know it that everything is against the law, and it will be because of everyone was willing to go along with some rules that sounded reasonable. We need to be responsible for our own selves, And those who have made the decision to stop, or not... I hope that is the reason why. Because of you taking responsibility and self governing... not because the Man says.... So i want to say again... im not dogging anyone out or insinuating anything... I respect anyones decision to do what they think is right. I'm just saying responsible amusement isn't against the law and anyone who says that it is... is probably a fascist pig.
Anything that IS fun, is probably dangerous... but we don't need to be regulated and micro managed. I like my lasers. I like building them, and although i have never sold any. I'm not going to let the fda tell me that i need their approval to do so. Especially when the very same fda says that mercury is just fine to go into the vaccines. Those people (the FDA) are not responsible. Since when does paying for a license make you any safer, or your consumers? Take Radio Shack, WL, And Nova as an example. Are any or the consumers going to be any safer than the other based on the companies license to sell and price range. Also should the consumer be reviewed to even make the purchase? And what does paying a lot of money to people or groups who don't even want this around going to even do but make us all criminals for doing what we like because we cant afford the extremely expensive approval papers. Thats what i don't like.
I would just like to thank those of you who have given the wonderful information that you have given to the community. No matter if your selling lasers or not. So whether you care or don't care, I support you decision to stop selling lasers.
Gordon
What i think is wrong (and may not apply to all) is this....
"Furthermore, promotion of Class IIIb or IEC Class 3B products for pointing or amusement violates FDA requirements and United States law."
Its things like this, that will make it illegal as a whole... and i thinks its wrong to take something that is normal and ok, and make it illegal. Since when does pointing a laser for amusement against the law or even making them subject to government approval. Saying.. "its not illegal, you just need a license" that costs an outrageous amount of money. That pretty much makes it illegal, and makes you a criminal if you don't submit to approval. I don't want to come off like i don't believe in safety either. There are sensible things like.... Don't shine them in to peoples eyes, or windows. Don't beam helicopters. Pretty much just don't be a dumb ass. It's those people who make us (people in general) think that is ok to be told that everyone needs approval. I thinks its easy to scapegoat stupid people in order to say that its for your own good. Lasers are dangerous.. We all know that, thats why the ones who care are always ranting about "Wear your f*king safety goggles" It's because they know it can be very dangerous... but they aren't telling you that you need their approval, or that they are going to turn you in to Big Brother. Those are ones who we should listen to. I would also like to thank those who do..
The choice is yours (ours) to make on our own free will, And it will continue to be as long as we let it. But when we just stop because some government agency says to.... thats when we lose it all. It will be before we know it that everything is against the law, and it will be because of everyone was willing to go along with some rules that sounded reasonable. We need to be responsible for our own selves, And those who have made the decision to stop, or not... I hope that is the reason why. Because of you taking responsibility and self governing... not because the Man says.... So i want to say again... im not dogging anyone out or insinuating anything... I respect anyones decision to do what they think is right. I'm just saying responsible amusement isn't against the law and anyone who says that it is... is probably a fascist pig.
Anything that IS fun, is probably dangerous... but we don't need to be regulated and micro managed. I like my lasers. I like building them, and although i have never sold any. I'm not going to let the fda tell me that i need their approval to do so. Especially when the very same fda says that mercury is just fine to go into the vaccines. Those people (the FDA) are not responsible. Since when does paying for a license make you any safer, or your consumers? Take Radio Shack, WL, And Nova as an example. Are any or the consumers going to be any safer than the other based on the companies license to sell and price range. Also should the consumer be reviewed to even make the purchase? And what does paying a lot of money to people or groups who don't even want this around going to even do but make us all criminals for doing what we like because we cant afford the extremely expensive approval papers. Thats what i don't like.
I would just like to thank those of you who have given the wonderful information that you have given to the community. No matter if your selling lasers or not. So whether you care or don't care, I support you decision to stop selling lasers.
Gordon
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I think you are making a smart-decision, too much can go wrong, both electrically and legally. This has been my policy from the beginning.
Keep up the awesome-work. The latest project was incredible!!
DH
Keep up the awesome-work. The latest project was incredible!!
DH
Could they back-track, and fine you or something for past sells even though you quit? I mean, if they wanted to cop you, they could, right, especially with your confession in writing here on LPF? :-/ Don’t they have a fine of some sort per unit? :-/
jayrob
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Thanks Dark_Horse!
Ace82, I suppose that may be a possibility...
But I seriously doubt that kind of a thing would happen. When I called the FDA a few months back, the guy told me that their concern is with Laser Companies, not hobbyist's. Anyone can see that all of the builds that I have shown, have been presented as a DIY project showing detailed pictures of the design and methods used.
So, while they could push for something like that, I would imagine that they are primarily interested in just making sure that 'Laser Companies' are complying. I would also think, that they would give a company, at least an opportunity to comply with their requirements. That would seem reasonable anyway...
There are hugh companies that are sending tons of lasers >5mW's without all of the safety requirements all over the place! (We are all glad for that!) Why would they focus on a hobbyist who has openly quit selling in good conscience?
Jay
Ace82, I suppose that may be a possibility...
But I seriously doubt that kind of a thing would happen. When I called the FDA a few months back, the guy told me that their concern is with Laser Companies, not hobbyist's. Anyone can see that all of the builds that I have shown, have been presented as a DIY project showing detailed pictures of the design and methods used.
So, while they could push for something like that, I would imagine that they are primarily interested in just making sure that 'Laser Companies' are complying. I would also think, that they would give a company, at least an opportunity to comply with their requirements. That would seem reasonable anyway...
There are hugh companies that are sending tons of lasers >5mW's without all of the safety requirements all over the place! (We are all glad for that!) Why would they focus on a hobbyist who has openly quit selling in good conscience?
Jay
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Ace82 said:
It's not like Jay was a member of the Columbian Drug Cartel and they are coming for him because he
has insider information on the Cartel...
Jay decided to not sell Lasers.... way before any one asked or forced him to... and that falls in his
favor...
What would be to gain for the FDA in spend thousands of $$$ to stop him from selling high power
lasers when he does not...
You guys sound a little paranoid... the FDA has bigger fish to fry.... IMO...
Jerry
