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FrozenGate by Avery

High power rocket video






Did you model rocket guys get screwed along with us toy airplane guys or is it steerable models only?
 
That's pretty cool - just a bit short of the speed of sound, guess that'll be the next barrier to take?
 
RedCowboy said:
Did you model rocket guys get screwed along with us toy airplane guys or is it steerable models only?
Click to expand...

I think the model rocket guys have always had it harder than us RC guys until pretty recently. Still almost as difficult as ever to build a big high power model rocket and its motor. You can order an FPV quadcopter with pretty huge range outside your line of sight for almost $500 now.

With government, I think that something relatively harmless has to stay small before they start throwing all sorts of regulations out. RCs passed that threshold when the good stuff became way more accessible. Calling all multicopters and most FPV RCs "drones" during the beginning of a privacy panic was also a really dumb idea that didn't help at all.

I just hope they drop the registration thing. I don't want to do it, but I'm about to leave the vicinity of my family's farmland and will either have to give up flying or fly public parks for the first time since I was a little kid. Not sure how it will go down after all this mess.



Also cool video. Makes me want to pick up another hobby.
 
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Was the parachute supposed to open up more?
Model rocketry was something we did way back. I'm almost 51 and some neighbors and I did that stuff making our own designs back when I was 10 or less I think. We had a model rocket club and I bought the first "Mean machine" when they came out and that was one huge rocket back then. Remember the first time I flew it we had to chase it a really long way as the parachute was big and the wind really took it far. Tried to find the original release date of it. I think I was in Junior high which would have been in the 70s. Estes was founded in 1958 and you could buy them by mail in 1970 although they were at all the hobby stores. I haven't seen anyone messing with them in 30 years myself. The Mean Machine was just over 6' tall. I believe it took a D engine but my understanding is they came out with stuff a lot bigger.
Honeslty can't believe I remembered the name of that rocket. There were all kinds of more parltriotic ones back then like the "patriot".
Brings up something else I remember doing. I used to take a bottle rocket and tape it to a paper airplane and man would it fly fast. The problem was it would totally set the airplane on fire so you better be careful where you point it:). You just tape the front to the point of the airplane and the stick runs down the center crease taped there too with scotch tape. I would launch them out my bedroom window lol. Can't imagine doing anything like that now without potentially getting arrested. Oh how the world has changed. Even sparklers are illegal in N.Y. unless your local county approves them. They remain completely illegal in NYC though.
 
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Great video Seoul, that camera view from the rocket is impresive! :beer:
Like Pman said, that video sure does bring back memories of buying Estes rocket kits in early 70's, and ....cough, before. ;)
The chase was half the battle, sometimes you'd find them, sometimes not.

:thanks: for sharing!
 
Pman said:
Was the parachute supposed to open up more?
Model rocketry was something we did way back. I'm almost 51 and some neighbors and I did that stuff making our own designs back when I was 10 or less I think. We had a model rocket club and I bought the first "Mean machine" when they came out and that was one huge rocket back then. Remember the first time I flew it we had to chase it a really long way as the parachute was big and the wind really took it far. Tried to find the original release date of it. I think I was in Junior high which would have been in the 70s. Estes was founded in 1958 and you could buy them by mail in 1970 although they were at all the hobby stores. I haven't seen anyone messing with them in 30 years myself. The Mean Machine was just over 6' tall. I believe it took a D engine but my understanding is they came out with stuff a lot bigger.
Honeslty can't believe I remembered the name of that rocket. There were all kinds of more parltriotic ones back then like the "patriot".
Brings up something else I remember doing. I used to take a bottle rocket and tape it to a paper airplane and man would it fly fast. The problem was it would totally set the airplane on fire so you better be careful where you point it:). You just tape the front to the point of the airplane and the stick runs down the center crease taped there too with scotch tape. I would launch them out my bedroom window lol. Can't imagine doing anything like that now without potentially getting arrested. Oh how the world has changed. Even sparklers are illegal in N.Y. unless your local county approves them. They remain completely illegal in NYC though.
Click to expand...

Oh yes! I remember those Estes rockets too! I had the Alpha 3, Comet (still have that in my bedroom), Wizard (until it exploded on launch one day), Kadet, and maybe another one I can't remember. Then I wanted something that stayed up longer and could be controlled, so I got into RC planes. That was around 25 years ago. The need to build planes at that time was really frustrating to me, so I didn't get into it much. Now, the current drone craze has been tempting to get into, but the registration and restriction on flying one within 5 miles of an airport means I couldn't fly one on my own property. Otherwise, I might have gotten one. They are a DREAM compared to what we had 25 years ago!

Anyway, now there's Aerotech rockets. I like watching videos of them such as the one you posted. I wouldn't want to pay the price for their engines though. Plus, I wouldn't have a clue as to how to recover one of those things. Estes rockets always got lost for me when I used any engine over the A8-3 size.

Before I forget: What was your camera attached to? Most people attach it to the rocket, but in the video I can see the rocket and the parachute. So what is the camera attached to?
 
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RedCowboy said:
Did you model rocket guys get screwed along with us toy airplane guys or is it steerable models only?
Click to expand...

Not here in Canada.

You may be in possession of high power rocket motors but require clearance and transportation certification to set them off.

Technically anything H and over requires clearance to fire from Transport Canada which we have. Also an explosives/propellant permit is needed just to transport the engines as they are over the exempt limit for standard consumer rocket A-G sized engines.
We loaded up this rocket so that it was below it's max ceiling allowance. first lunch was on an H195 which unfortunately too much power for the camera to get a clear video of.
 
Pman said:
Was the parachute supposed to open up more?
Model rocketry was something we did way back. I'm almost 51 and some neighbors and I did that stuff making our own designs back when I was 10 or less I think. We had a model rocket club and I bought the first "Mean machine" when they came out and that was one huge rocket back then. Remember the first time I flew it we had to chase it a really long way as the parachute was big and the wind really took it far. Tried to find the original release date of it. I think I was in Junior high which would have been in the 70s. Estes was founded in 1958 and you could buy them by mail in 1970 although they were at all the hobby stores. I haven't seen anyone messing with them in 30 years myself. The Mean Machine was just over 6' tall. I believe it took a D engine but my understanding is they came out with stuff a lot bigger.
Honeslty can't believe I remembered the name of that rocket. There were all kinds of more parltriotic ones back then like the "patriot".
Brings up something else I remember doing. I used to take a bottle rocket and tape it to a paper airplane and man would it fly fast. The problem was it would totally set the airplane on fire so you better be careful where you point it:). You just tape the front to the point of the airplane and the stick runs down the center crease taped there too with scotch tape. I would launch them out my bedroom window lol. Can't imagine doing anything like that now without potentially getting arrested. Oh how the world has changed. Even sparklers are illegal in N.Y. unless your local county approves them. They remain completely illegal in NYC though.
Click to expand...


No, these parachutes are supposed to open up to that they don't drift around.

Actually this rocket is big enough to have 2 parachutes. I stuffed the second one into the top body section to have it descend faster. One is enough after taking a few 100g off the body weight and shortening it by 28cm or so. Total weight now is 1.45Kg with the camera attached.

This rocket requires a rail system for launching it stands 1.5m tall.
You can see how big the rocket is with the last attached picture. Keep in mind that the rocket is taking off at 261.5m/s in this frame. The photo was shot at high speed on an SLR. The first pic..blue flame the rocket was trans-sonic at 321.15 m/sec, so fast that the SLR at high speed could not keep up.

Below is the non-music version of the same lunch. You can get a much better idea of the sound after burn out.

https://www.facebook.com/conor.whyte/videos/10153901576626397/
 

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Great shots there. I sure don't remember any of mine launching that quickly. That's a lot of thrust.
Yes, we always had problems trying to chase ours down because the parachutes were big.
 
Benm said:
That's pretty cool - just a bit short of the speed of sound, guess that'll be the next barrier to take?
Click to expand...

Yup... that's our next launch I hope. I've got a minimum diameter rocket But I'll have to strengthen it up with phenolic resin/ fiberglass If I dare attempt a true supersonic flight. All surfaces have got to be done up properly and sanded smooth. An H195-14A would do the trick.
I have also at my disposal an "I350W-T series motor AEROTECH waiting for me but I am afraid to use it for fear I might go over 3.5-4Km on one. At that altitude air traffic control 20-25km away would be able to see it as a hazard or bogie.
I'd have the RCMP involved including transport Canada. Not cool!
 
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Do you mean they might see it on radar?

Obviously you should comply with all regulations, but a rocket like that might not be all that visible to radar at all.

I presume it has no radar transponder of any kind so it would have to be detected by primary radar. This is in itself perfectly feasible if someone is actually looking for things that are not supposed to be there (enemy aircraft and such), but otherwise not that likely.

Most air traffic controls actually depend on secondary radar (i.e. an active transponder on the aircraft).

On primary radar your rocket will probably not look all that interesting: it only flies for a short amount of time and doesn't have a big radar signature. Since a rocket is essentially tube-shaped it will reflect some radar energy but not very much. Airplanes typically have structures (such as the tail rudder or wing attachement to the fuselage) on them that make them into retroreflectors producing strong reflections.

You will find that such convenient 90 degree reflectors are avoided on all stealth aircraft, although those have further design improvements and radar absorbing coating your rocket does not have. Perhaps they'll wonder if a ostrich has finally be able to fly from the raw data :D
 
Benm said:
Do you mean they might see it on radar?

Obviously you should comply with all regulations, but a rocket like that might not be all that visible to radar at all.

I presume it has no radar transponder of any kind so it would have to be detected by primary radar. This is in itself perfectly feasible if someone is actually looking for things that are not supposed to be there (enemy aircraft and such), but otherwise not that likely.

Most air traffic controls actually depend on secondary radar (i.e. an active transponder on the aircraft).

On primary radar your rocket will probably not look all that interesting: it only flies for a short amount of time and doesn't have a big radar signature. Since a rocket is essentially tube-shaped it will reflect some radar energy but not very much. Airplanes typically have structures (such as the tail rudder or wing attachement to the fuselage) on them that make them into retroreflectors producing strong reflections.

You will find that such convenient 90 degree reflectors are avoided on all stealth aircraft, although those have further design improvements and radar absorbing coating your rocket does not have. Perhaps they'll wonder if a ostrich has finally be able to fly from the raw data :D
Click to expand...

Which is why flying it on a I motor is not going to happen. When we do use it, it'll be VERY far away from any flightpaths..
 
That might be a very wise precaution, as well as informing nearby air control stations of your activities. The chances of hitting an airliner by accident are obviously tiny, but if you're shooting for over a kilometer altitude you could easily spook someone.
 
Benm said:
That might be a very wise precaution, as well as informing nearby air control stations of your activities. The chances of hitting an airliner by accident are obviously tiny, but if you're shooting for over a kilometer altitude you could easily spook someone.
Click to expand...

Currently we've got permission from our local municipality and RCMP to go nuts "within reason", also local air traffic doesn't fly over the field in question. Actually it is used often by drone and RC aircraft flyers so.. aok..

During school (wood-work/applied sciences) kids from the local middle school shoot off their mid powered G and H rockets in this field as well. This is the only school in Canada with an active medium/high power rocket class for applied skills. The rocket video I posted was a test of the video recorder for an up and coming launch video put together by students for advertising for their "applied science" program.

Additionally point out that at no time are the students handling or loading the engines. Under the explosives act only someone with an explosives permit or propellant permit (firearms licence) load and prime these engines. The storage of these engines also follows UN codes and must be transported in a separate vehicle from the launch controller

:thanks:
 
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