Feeler: Nichia high power 365nm LEDs

[Krutz]

EDIT:
[from post #10:] The groupbuy will be for the NCSU033B LED, 365nm, 325mw. 99$ if we reach a number of 6 only!

-------------------------------------

HERE I was trying to buy some of the new NICHIA high power 365nm LEDs. I am of course talking about the 250mw, 325mw and 950mw output versions. Yes, thats the actual optical output, not the electrical input as with those other "1 watt LEDs".

What did I find out so far?
there are three versions of those monster-LEDs:

NCSU033A is around for years already, 250mw output.
NCSU033B is new, like an update, and 325mw.
NC4U133 has four dies inside, still in the same small size, with 950mw output!

the third one, however, needs 17v input. they all like 500mA current, higher should be possible, within reasonable limits, with enough heatsinking.
17v is no big problem, there are LED driverboards out there for that. imaging to drive it at 17v with 500mA or 1000mA would however generate 9 or 17 watt heat. that wont be a tiny "flashlight" for enough heatsinking, and would need several cells for runtime (and to not drain too much current from the cells).

I asked around a bit.. two sellers at CPF, an onlineshop, some other forums and at Nichia directly. so far:

noone has the newer NCSU033B with 325mw available. the NCSU033A with 250mw however could be bought for 120$. noone has the big NC4U133 available.
Nichia would sell me the NCSU033A for 110€, which is 140$! no idea why they quoted the older -A version, no reply on that yet. the NC4U133 from Nichia would be 175€ or 223$. both for one up to ten pieces.
I read in some post that Nichia sells the NCSU033A for under 90$, in small numbers. maybe they quoted me the newer -B prices? maybe the US Nichia branch is less expensive?

I would like to get the bigger NC4U133. If I will (be able to) drive it at its full power, in the small host I plan I dont know yet. at least I could switch it to a bigger host in the future and crank up the current. at only double the price of the smaller version, for four dies, it has to be the big one for me!
the older version stays at its pricelevel since several years now (in fact rose a few $), in small quantities (under 100) at least. I dont expect that any of their LEDs will get much cheaper anytime soon, and I dont think there will be much stronger LEDs soon either.

So.. who would like to get some of those babies?
Maybe someone could ask the US Nichia department for quotes?
--> inquiries

Not sure if there is much to save from this GB at all, lets see how expensive ten LEDs would be. So for now its a feeler only, lets see where we get at?

Manuel

 

[scopeguy20]

Here's a pic of some fluorescein glowing in a "flashlight" with a 250mW Nichia 365nm LED:

 

[HIMNL9]

Nichia, usually, gives around insane quotation prices for single samples or small quantities, cause they don't want to be submersed from requests from hobbysts ..... and i think they consider "small quantity" everything under 100 or 200 pieces .....

Yes, they have very interesting items, but getting samples from them is a pain you-know-where .....

The more powerful of the UV diodes that you've posted, have 4 diodes in serie, inside, but there are around boost drivers that can be used for high voltage outputs (like the ones planned for multiple leds flashlights, where they are connected in series strips of 4 or 5 elements), so maybe you can build something with also only 2 or 3 cells, if you get one of these working .....

 

[Krutz]

AAAH, Glenn, youre killing me! looks great! powerful!

About driving one of these: the SHARK driver goes up to 32v output, adjustable up to 900mA, from a single LiIon (input current limited to 4A, thats the only real limitation!). pretty tiny too, 0.750 inch(19.1mm) diameter. there may be less expensive drivers out there. the shark is around 20$, which is a good price i think.

Manuel

 

[HIMNL9]

Yes, but if you're planning to use it for drive them at 17V 500mA, is better than you use more than a single cell ..... both for not overload the driver, and for not kill your cell in few minutes ..... 2 cells are good enough ..... 3 are the better choice, but also only 2 is ok .....

They say nothing about the efficency of the converter, but we can suppose it's a new one, with "usual" 80% max efficency in boost function with mid current ..... if used with a single cell, 3,7V standard charge, it can require, including the heat dissipation, to draw at least 10,5W power from the cell ..... that is around 2,75A ..... and this only IF the efficence of the assembly is still at 80% also with this so high difference from Vin and Vout.

You need to know this better, cause for boost drivers, the efficency decrease dramatically, when the difference from Vin and Vout is too big ..... as example, some boost drivers that have 87% of efficency at 500mA when the Vin is 2 or 3 V lower than Vout, fall to 55% when the difference is 7 or 8 V or more ..... and in this case, you can have a converter that require 5 A or more, for give you 17V at 500mA from a single cell, and this don't work, if the input current is limited to 4A, as they say .....

 

[Krutz]

you are absolutely right!
a host which manages 8w heat should be large enough to accept two cells as well.

those suggest that the driver is pretty efficient all in all. and they show nicely that the higher the input voltage, the higher the efficiency, just like you said.

manuel

 

[Krutz]

Update: Answer from Nichia Germany:

NCSU033A (250mw):
1-10 140$ (110€)
10+ 127$ (100€)

NCSU033B (325mw):
1-10 [still no answer]
10+ 153$ (120€)

NC4U133 (950mw):
1-10 223$ (175€)
10+ 191$ (150€)

It seems like they quote much higher prices than Nichia USA.
Quotes found HERE:
NCSU033A Ua/P567/LMH
1-5pcs @ $125/unit
6-99pcs @ $87.50/unit

Please, would someone from the US ask their Nichia for prices? Simply a form to fill out: INQUIRIES

Manuel

 

[scopeguy20]

OK Manuel, I sent an inquiry for all three LED's I'll get back to you with what they answer... -Glenn

 

[Krutz]

awesome, thank you for your help, glenn!
curious how this will turn out..

manuel

 

[Krutz]

Thanks to Glenn, we now know what Nichia US quotes for those LEDs! the most interesting one would be:

NCSU033B (325mw) 1-5: 125$
NCSU033B (325mw) 6-99: 99$

the lower -a version is not much cheaper, with 105$ and 75$. the quad-die-LED would be 190$ up to 999 pieces.

so, will we be able to get a GB going for 6 pieces, 99$ each?

Manuel

 

[CrufflerSteve]

Is this still alive? I just joined. I've been looking to buy one and my search ended here. I just like UV lights for rock collecting. I've also been playing around with computer controlled arrays of lights with Arduino boards.

 

[arringtj]

I too am curious....is this alive???

 

[Tech_Junkie]

They are in the cancer causing wavelength, so be careful.

 

[jmgallego]

I too am curious....is this alive???

Good question... I have not "heard" from Manuel (Kurtz) in a while. "Saw" him at PL and other sites too.

There is another thread started by Bionic-Badger (http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/wtb-feeler-uv-leds-55734.html) for 365m but have higher power and lower price!

 

[mfo]

They are in the cancer causing wavelength, so be careful.

Nah, 365nm is UVA, which is non carcinogenic. UVB and shorter is bad.

 

[Bionic-Badger]

Nah, 365nm is UVA, which is non carcinogenic. UVB and shorter is bad.

Well, directly, it is non-carcinogenic, but it can effect the creation of chemicals in your tissues that can cause cancer. I would avoid exposure to UVA as much as possible, especially since all forms of UV affect collagen in the skin, accelerating aging.

On the UV LED front, I've ordered one of those 10W (~800mW) UV LEDs, which should arrive mid-October. I'll see how my UVC lamp works in the mean time.