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FrozenGate by Avery

Feedback on laser design and sale!

I don't get it. In the OP Billy asks for comments good and bad, but in post #7 he defends against the comments that don't say what an awesome build and a work of art. I find his builds acceptable, but far from what I would call a work of art. Having bought many custom hosts over the years here, from great machinists like sinner, his hosts seem overpriced to me. The fins that Alaskan likes are a great example of what can be accomplished. I think those hosts are better looking and more functional than these high priced ones. Just my honest comments that you asked for.
 
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I like the unit, and I talked to Billy about it, it was more than I wanted to pay, but a good salesman starts high. The work is high quality and no doubt has a lot of time in it.

Billy is a skilled salesman too, this I can see in his artistic negotiation, he listens to every word and is plenty smart enough to use your thoughts to sell to you....nothing wrong with that, but that's basically my answer to your question Paul, what looks like a request for critique is in my opinion, even if only subconsciously, is also a skilled canvasing for the buyer.......again, nothing wrong with that and no offense intended.

To be fair if everyone wanted tiny pocket builds he would accommodate, and actually that might fit this market better, super compact but unique builds that identify as his high quality work on sight, but take less time and can sell for less.

But I don't see anything wrong with his work, the highly polished finish can attract fingerprints, but is easily cleaned, and the thickness of his recent host would win many people over if they could hold it in hand as well as seeing it.

----edit-----

Paul: I understand wanting to get things done at the best price possible, I also prize having through my own methods what would cost many times more to buy it ready made, and there is nothing wrong with shopping around for the best bargain, I also wait and bid to score a win, we vote here with our dollars and reward those sellers who provide competitive quality, I'm all about saving a buck. ;) But sometimes I want something special, the skyray I got from Rich ( Lifetime17 ) I am using without the thumbwheel because I like to see the copper insert, it's just too pretty to cover it up.

I think if Billy could offer people some of his gold/silver/gold/silver work in a compact unit for a more budget friendly price it could build his brand faster, but that's just my opinion.

Lifetime17 heat sink, the gold/silver is really nice.

12152-skyray-lifetime17.jpg
 
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So, you are saying this is a "sales" ploy to try to get this build sold? I took him at his word in the OP and gave my honest opinion. The asking price always seems high to me. Meh.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with the host. Just too high a price.
 
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It's like trying to sell a house which was over built, the customer base drops. Some members will pay for quality like that, but as you see, it may take longer.
 
I thought you liked the host with the fins better. I don't believe these are better polished than Lifetime17's hosts are or built better than sinner's hosts. Do you feel the quality here justifies the price, Chris?
 
Paul, I know you asked Chris, but I did not buy at the asking or reduced price from Billy, I felt it was too high for me, instead I bought the skyray from Rich which I am very happy with.

I don't like to negotiate with a builder, just give me a fair price right up front and I will pay.

p.s. Paul I don't know for a fact that this comment thread was a sales ploy, it's just something that I suspect may be rolled into the concept, but it's just my opinion, not an accusation or meant in a derogatory way. I do agree the price was high, so much so that I declined to negotiate when offered a slightly lower price, I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings or attack their work, I just couldn't see paying 450.00 or anywhere near it when all I really wanted was a nice host, but that's not to say that someone wont buy it for that amount, just not me.
 
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Yea, like others have said, first thing that catches my eye is the high price. A nubm08 module with an integrated driver on DTR's site runs for 114$ (I'll exclude shipping since you'd have to charge the buyer for shipping, added to the asking price). Asking $300 makes the host itself cost $186, and if that's the discounted price, you don't have a very fair/competitive price. I myself have made quite a few hosts for those on LPF by now and have not once charged over $110 for one, and that's the highest end. My average asking price is generally around 80-90 dollars. I'm sure you can find even cheaper options from Lifetime or even any of the other machinists around here. So, in my opinion you're lacking justification for the high price point. Labor for assembly, perhaps, but that's not something people are looking to be charged for in a hobby community.

Nothing personal, but I've found with threads like this, when the OP is asking for opinions, the result is often the poster getting PO'd at any possible negative outlooks. :whistle:
 
Thanks, Red and Sean. Those have been my points exactly. I suppose if you have money to burn, it doesn't matter to you. But, I have purchased many very fine hosts from machinists over the years and $120.00 is definitely the top end. Maybe that host Minamoto built with the awesome optical package would be an exception to this rule, but not what I see here.
 
thank you for all the advise guys and feedback it’s what I asked for, I didn’t start this thread to encourage a sale I was just puzzled as there was over 300 views but not even 5 comments and since I decided to sell my custom builds early last year after not wanting to part with any of them previously, I needed to here opinions of all the great people here on LPF that have helped me learn and get were I am today,

Encap
Wow I see,
This is the first host I’ve done without a safety latching reason is the bottom looked so nice polished and stands up nicely as a ornament laser and thought I would try something different, also to be safe it’s not a bad idea to have to remove the battery when not using the laser, I thought it was a good quality,
with a boost driver and these powerful diodes I didn’t think many would want a latching switch you could just use a rubber band! Just saying! Not practical though!

Batteries a quality bat recommended for this laser as in the thread, Efest IMR 35a continuous discharge flattop are all the same size! but I suppose it’s another good point, Thanks Encap you always have nice things to say about my lasers and I appreciate you taking the time to help me understand possible obstacles! Really I do man!


Paul
I’m not defending, I’m trying to respond and communicate, I’m accepting all feedback and taking it onboard with my future and present builds!
$120 is a good price for a host Paul but I don’t just sell hosts mainly complete builds, I’ve mentioned that I have a permanent job and that this isn’t a business it’s a hobby I love to do in my time off, I’ve probably made 20 custom hosts all up, I’m not no sinner or lifetime and I wasn’t competing with them but I’ve noticed many of lifetimes host were not polished in previous e sales and you say you don’t think my polishing is better that his, Lifetime himself has commented many times at my work, The difference between my work and peaple like sinner is I’m not pumping them out as a business trying to keep up and pay the bills, I’ll do 2 hrs today then another 2 hrs a few days later and in between I’m thinking on the design what I can do to make it better, watching vids at work and learning new things and only when the build is complete and exceptional to my personal standards only then I will list it for sale, I’ll make sure every detail is perfect, I’m not in a rush to sell it just was wondering why no interest.


Electric plasma

I accept that the price was high to start,
Just diode and driver cost me over $100 everything comes from the US and obviously i pay shipping every time to Sydney,

I buy my brass and alloy bars on eBay, The brass bar was $50 alloy $10 no discounts for bulk orders, I did mention In the thread that this was more of a monument laser and not a everyday burner and the time I spend on these builds man I use 3 different RUST-OLEUM wet and dry sandpaper to get the smooth finish, it’s $10 for 5 sheets, then I use neverdull wadding polish $20 a small tin and then Autosol metal polish with micro fibre cloth,
Sorry I’m getting carried away here, My point is I spend more on products to be able to complete a host to my satisfaction, I’m lucky if I make $100 on a build then I’m ordering parts from here there for the next build becouse this is what I love to do in my spare time,

Thanks buddy I’ll try selling cheaper but they are complete lasers again not just hosts!

Also I’m not pissed off at anyone, I needed the feedback and gives us all a chance to discuss hosts! Thank you!




RedCowboy!

I New the original price would shock you but since you really wanted to purchase one of my custom laser one day, I did tell you to make me an offer but you declined to, I need to keep in mind you guys all in the US can buy guns at your local wall mart, I know I would rather build up a gun collection than a laser collection if I were there, advantage is you guys don’t have to hide them and worry! Red you finally pulled the trigger on a NDG7475 And if it’s just a large custom host you want at a decent price I’m happy to work on something for you!
Guys like you Paul and others that have the experience to build there own laser obviously wouldn’t want to pay $300 for a custom designed laser, but that doesn’t mean the other 80% of peaple that don’t trust them self’s with an expensive diode and don’t have 22 gauge silicone wire, thermal grease, thermal adhesive, contact board, soldering ion, power supply, test load, dirrerent switches momentary and latching, heat shrink tubing, slotdrill, sandpaper and so on, Will say that $300 is a lot of money!

Again not angry with any of these opinions and feedback and I won’t answer everyone as if I’m defending myself,

Thanks all I’m going to try and please everyone just gime some time!
 
I really like the laser and would of bought it if you were innthe united states. I try to avoid buying from over seas.
 
To all that would be interested. I’ve bought a few off Billy before (I live in the states) and he always does a fine job of packaging to get them though the gate keepers. Always been impressed by his packaging and builds. Just some hands on experience. Hope it helps/food for thought. :)
 
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I just saw Paul’s question, for me it isn’t a question of price vs quality, it just doesn’t match my likes. I like a longer pointer with two batteries, I also like deep heat sink fins and the ability to focus the output. If I could find them, I would prefer a pointer with a larger diameter collimation lens for reduced divergence.
 
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