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FrozenGate by Avery

CLOSED: Taking payments ROUND 3!: THE "Skylaser" (laserBtB) groupbuy!

KapHn8d said:
I used two Tenergy RCR123A per the instruction on the host (two 16340). They were fully charged.



Cheers,
Clayton
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The RC123A's are rated at 3.0v (4.2 w/o load)

16340's are rated at 3.7- 4.2v , could that of been the problem? they needed to be 16340's ? if so, the problem might have been picked up in post #303?
 





RC123A is not the same as 16340's. They are not only smaller in size but they also have a lower voltage and also lower current draw.

I recommend buying IMR 16340's. Too bad it costed 100$+ dollers to find out the problem :(
 
The Tenergy's he got are rated 3.0V and not 3.7V the 16340's are.

Wrong batteries indeed.

Well glad the laser is OK, but the batteries choise is a huge ..... up.
 
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I doubt it was the batteries for the 532. I don't really care how they were fixed as long as they are in working order. You left out the part of the email where they are holding the lasers ransom unless I cough up $120 for shipping and import tax as well as pay for the return shipping. That's quite surprising.
 
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The fact is that you returned a working laser because you used the wrong batteries. Shipping from us to china is very expensive i would be unfair to let kevin pay that because you tested it with wrong cell's

I am 99% sure is WAS the batteries..
 
KapHn8d said:
I doubt it was the batteries. I don't really care how they were fixed as long as they are in working order. You left out the part of the email where they are holding the lasers ransom unless I cough up $120 for shipping and import tax as well as pay for the return shipping. That's quite surprising.
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I have those tenergy's aswell for my spartan from DL.

I will test it in my HL 405... i'm sure it's the batteries.

* cr123a 3.0V does max 250mW
* 16340 3.7V does max 550mW

I bet the 808nm pump diode in the green uses allot of more juice thus it doesn't work at all.

The 520nm atleast powering up but low power can also be becouse ''the batteries are fresh'' and need a couple of cycles to be at full capacitie.
Aldo the wrong one ''3.0V''
 
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There is a 3W 808nm in the 700mW model.. No way that can be properly driven with that cells.

@ KapHn8d

There is a huge difference in the fact if it is an laserbtb defect or a customer defect. If the product was bad kevin would 100% ship you a new unit for free. However it os unfair to expect that kevin pays this when it was you whom used faultive cells.

The HL-515 also was measured @ 51mW and the PL532 @745mW and i am sure it can do more with IMR cells.
 
Yeah it IS the batteries.

Its a pity no one, myself included, read post #303 a little closer.

A lesson learned.
 
I really don't care to get into speculation. It really isn't important to me if there was a problem with the switch or I used the wrong batteries (I thought 16340's were all rated at 3V and that is what they claim is to be used)... as a consumer, when you buy something, you want to eventually end up with what you purchased. He has validated that the lasers are working NOW and provided LPM pics. I'm ok with all of that, so we can move on. However, let's assume it WAS the battery choice... it ran the 520 and 405, so the assumption my natural assumption was something else wrong with the 532 - which was even said by Kevin in the email requesting the shipment back. In the real world, when I'm not on the Interwebs, I deal with customer service every day. Given the fact that I reshipped the units to him only after getting his guidance and ok to do so and the fact they were packaged exactly as he instructed, I don't see where he thinks my footing the bill for the entire postage and his local taxes is good customer service.

I offered before I even returned them to pay half the shipping once I received working units. I also offered in rebuttal to his request that I cover all the shipping and taxes because he thought I should have sent them outside a box (in a sack?) to pay half the return shipping when I receive the working units in good repair. In fact, I'll just paste the thread here and you guys can be the judge of whether I'm unreasonable in my perspective here... if it's TLDR, I'll highlight at the bottom the gist of it.


This is my initial contact after I asked Robin if it would be alright to contact Kevin directly because the shipping quote I got was ridiculous.
Kevin,

Hello! Please let me introduce myself… My name is Clayton Bownds and I am the customer that Robin has been working with for the problem with the PL532-700 and the HL520-50 in the recent laserpointerforums.com group buy.

I asked Robin to just allow me to contact you directly. As I’m sure you have heard, the package with the PL532 has been released from US Customs and been delivered. I also received the other package with the PL405 and the HL520. At this point, all the items that I ordered in the group buy have been delivered. I also received an additional pen tripod and two small tripods in the second package that I did not pay for in the order. I received a gift laser pen of 460nm as well… thank you so much for that… I love the color.

Here is the status of the lasers:
• PL405-500 – I metered this on the LPM at 512mW and it seems to be working fine
• HL520-50 – I metered this at 11.1mW when I opened the package. Now it only reads between 1mw and 3mW. I’m not sure what the problem is… it is a beautiful color, but it is not the 50mW I was expecting
• PL532-700 – This laser will not stay on… when the actuation switch is depressed, it flashes for an instant and then remains off. Initially I tried two 16340’s as the label stated, but Robin corrected me in pointing out the label was wrong and it took a single 18650. I have tried 5 different 18650’s and two different brands (all of them were fully charged) and the behavior is the same. I also tested the PL532 tail cap on the PL405 and it worked fine, so it isn’t a problem with the tailcap.

Robin send me the shipping information and Skylaser’s FedEx account number to return the lasers. I went to FedEx this morning and as they were processing the shipment, I asked for the least expensive delivery method they had to Shenzhen. It was 890 yuan! I could not believe this, so I called the International support number for FedEx and asked them to verify everything and they agreed that was the least expense. This is about $145 US. They said if I stripped down the shipment and got it under 2 lbs, it would still be $140 US. I very much would like to get functioning lasers as I paid for, but I do not feel this is right for me to charge this much money to your account. I did not ship them out of respect for your business.

I have some travel coming up in 9 days that will not allow me to deal with this shipping while away, so if there is any way we can resolve this before I leave, it would be very helpful (and comforting) to me.

Would it be possible to ship me the new lasers to test and verify they are functioning to spec as soon as possible before I send the defective units back? This would minimize the possibility of having to pay for multiple shipments if something happened during delivery of the replacement units and also allow me to select a less expensive method of shipping to return the defective units even if it took a little longer in route. We could either split the shipping cost, or, if you like as a gesture of good faith, I could purchase another laser from you to be included in the replacement shipment to help cover your expense.

I am very sorry to be an inconvenience, but I really am only asking for the lasers to work at or above the specification I ordered. I also hope you understand my concern with the large shipping costs and how I feel that simply sending them back with a charge to your account is not the honorable thing to do without you know just how much FedEx was wanting to charge. It is just not right.

I look forward to your response and thank you for your attention to this matter.

Kind regards,
Clayton
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Kevin's response more or less saying they get some special discounts and I should strip down the shipment to just the hosts and send anyway:
Clayton,

Thanks for your order.

Yes,I have heard, the package with the PL532 has been released from US Customs and been delivered. You received an additional pen tripod and two small tripods in the second package that you did not pay for in the order,because I guess the US Customs will not release the lasers, need not pay me that .

I am happy that you are satisfied with the gift laser pen of 460nm.

the status of the lasers:
• HL520-50 – this at 11.1mW when I opened the package. Now it only reads between 1mw and 3mW. the problem maybe the laser diode is dead…
it is a beautiful color, please send it back,we will test that,we must know what happened,then replacement.
• PL532-700 – please try two 16340’s as the label stated, there is a 3W 808nm inside.

Please send the lasers back to me,my FedEx intl. economy account (IE) 3.............4. ,we have discounts with FedEx in China,select "intl. economy",
only the lasers with well inner box bubble,do not send the box back.

I can send a new HL520-50, new PL532-700 is still on production.

Sorry for any inconvenience.


Kind regards,
Kevin
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My shipment with just the laser hosts ONLY, wrapped in bubble wrap, and placed in the smallest box they would fit in lengthwise... also according to FedEx, the least expensive I ship weight I could get.
Kevin,

The lasers have been shipped this morning (August, 2, 2013). They were packaged exactly as you requested and shipped via international economy. The FedEx tracking number is 8......................2.

You should be able to track the shipment using this link:
https://www.fedex.com/fedextrack/?tracknumbers=8........................2

Here is a description of the laser behavior in a short video I made for you:
skylaser - YouTube

I am looking forward to the new HL520-50 and PL532-700 soon. Please let me know the tracking information as soon as they have shipped.

Thank you so much for your help in resolving this and replacing the lasers.

Have a very nice weekend!

Kind regards,
Clayton
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His response:
Clayton,

Did your write USD 10 per unit on the shipping bill ? lower amount means lower import tax. Please inform FedEx.

I watched the description of the laser behavior in a short video :
skylaser - YouTube
It looks like there is a switch problem of the PL532.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Have a very nice weekend!

Kind regards,
Kevin
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reply:
Kevin,

Actually, I wrote a value of $2 on the label. I hope that is ok.

Robin had led me to believe you are manufacturing, testing, and sending me new lasers rather than receiving and repairing these... is this correct? I have travel coming soon and want to ensure shipping time is not going to be an issue.

Thanks again for helping!

-Clayton
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About a week goes by and I get the email that the lasers are good to go, but I won't get them unless I cough up some cash.
Clayton and Robin,

Thanks for your orders.

I got the PL532-700 and HL520-50 sent back from Clayton.
Every thing is OK,lasers work well,the power are over specs.
Please read the pics of testing.
I guess that you problem is -- your 16340 batteries' length is less the standard,connecting not well.

I told you times,only send me the laser tubes,with small packing, you send me the laser tubes,
that's right...... but witha big box with volume weight of 2.5Kg, the Fedex freight is USD 90, and the import
tax is USD 30 because of the goods' weight. (you know,even if with my standard aluminum box,the weight is 1.5Kg).
Please read the pics of your box,the box can carry 6 pieces of PL laser.

Now what we can do?Considering:
1.Pay me USD 120,and tell me your account number, I will send these back to you.
2.I will refund you 80% of the lasers' cost,and deduct USD 120.
If you cannot operate that correctly,send and back and resend,will take more and more money from you.
I keep the lasers in stock.

Please reply me your opinion.

Kind regards,
Kevin
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And what I consider a reasonable response in turn below. I can't reiterate enough that the shipment returned to him was nothing but 2 hosts wrapped in bubble wrap tightly and placed very snug in the smallest FedEx box I could get to ship them to China. The box was easily less than half the size of what the same units came in to me from him, so I'm not sure what he expected to see. I'm not going to send $750 worth of lasers in a paper sack.
Kevin,

Great news that the lasers have been corrected however, it is very disappointing that you expect me to pay you $120 more.

When I went to ship them back to you and they quoted me a price, I did not ship them without contacting you for instructions. You said “Please send the lasers back to me,my FedEx intl. economy account (IE) 3..........4. ,we have discounts with FedEx in China,select "intl. economy", only the lasers with well inner box bubble,do not send the box back.” I did exactly this… I removed the lasers from the boxes they came in and wrapped only the hosts in bubble wrap with nothing else. Now you are trying to tell me that I was to understand you didn’t want them in ANY box at all… just sent wrapped in paper? How is that safe for International shipping? I find this especially odd since the shipment I received from you was in a large, heavy box even bigger than what you received. As far as I can tell, the return shipment to you was the absolute lowest price I could get it via FedEx and I gave you all the details upfront and you told me what to do… and I did exactly that… now, you are saying that if I don’t pay you for the shipping and tax PLUS return shipping, I can’t receive the lasers? –or- You will refund 80% of the cost only if I pay your shipping and tax fees? How do you think this is a fair option?

Here is what I would like to propose…

I paid you $600 for the PL532 and $150 for the HL520… that is a total of $750.

Option 1: I will pay you for one half of the shipping cost ($60) when I receive the lasers in good working order.
Option 2: I will pay you for one half the shipping cost ($60) and you simply refund the $750 for the lasers immediately.
Option 3: I will pay you for one half the shipping cost ($60) after I receive the HL520, you keep the PL532 and refund the $600 immediately.

At any rate, I shouldn’t have to bear the full cost of shipping since I asked for your guidance and followed your instructions to the letter.

I would like to resolve this as soon as possible as I will be unreachable for 4 days after Saturday morning.

Thanks,
Clayton
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Guys, I'm not mad. I'm happy that the lasers arrived and they were able to inspect and bench test them... no customs stops and inspections like on the way to the states. I'm happy there is progress here. What I'm not happy about is the ransom note. I feel it is fair that I split the shipping with him, but covering the entire shipping and import tax AND return shipping, given the sequence of events and our conversation, is imho not cool. Especially considering this was $1000 order.

I'm mildly frustrated that I'm leaving the country Saturday morning and will be off the grid for 4 days where I can't communicate with anyone about this to resolve it... and given the time difference, each volley back and forth takes a full day+ turnaround. At any rate, I think my options are more than fair. We'll see what Kevin comes back with...

Have a great day!
Cheers!
c
 
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Robin, the issue isn't whether the lasers are working or were working. I'm ok with that being accurate. Mea culpa for buying the batteries specified on the host and them not being the right length and/or voltage or whatever... I asked here on the forums, I asked you, and I asked the manufacturer and at the end of the day, they asked me to send them back and they said they thought it was the switch. All the data was out in the open and no one caught it - especially me. All that is water under the bridge. Kevin is upset the shipping was more than he anticipated and I've offered to split it with him. I think that's fair.

We can keep saying over and over that the lasers were ok, but it doesn't change the fact that the manufacturer asked for the shipment back. I did what he asked because I wanted the laser to work. All the other reasons are mute at this point because no one said, oh not THOSE 16340's, you need different 16340's... it really is no big deal. Live and learn.

AND - there is no need for you to feel defensive. You've done absolutely awesome in this group buy... top notch every step of the way.

offroadfreak8582 said:
I am okay with opinions. The fact is that the laser was 100% when you received it.
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That's a fair statement.

Like I've said for the third time, none of us, myself included picked up on post #303.


The end result is going to be that Clayton will get the enjoyment out of those bad boys, which is what this is all about :)

EDIT, Offroad has indeed gone above and beyond the call of duty on this one, and we all appreciate it.

regards
 
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Hey guys,

So me and clayton worked it out. I am gonna speak with kevin about what he think is fair in this case. He is going a few days away. I will be gone sunday. I will resolve this with kevin in the meantime that clayton is gone and before i leave.

I will post the outcome here. :beer:
 
Got both of my pulsed lasers in yesterday :) Was hoping they would pulse much faster, but oh well, still decent pointers :)
 
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