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FrozenGate by Avery

cheap / free energy "conspiracy" is it real?

In high school, my auto shop teacher used to tell us about a super carburetor that was invented (before I was born) that made it possible for the car to get 100mpg. He then said the car and oil companies bought the patent to it and vaulted it. I've heard this story told by a lot of old people, but figured it was urban legend. What do you guys think? True or BS?
 





probably BS. All patents can be researched. If there was such a U.S. patent, it would be widely linked to in conspiracy web pages. There are probably electric car patents bought up, then never produced by a car manufacturer. A premise that doesn't need a conspiracy to explain. Given it's smart business sense to buy up emerging tech to use it yourself. With the obvious downside of finding out the hard way that a tech doesn't pan out as easily as anticipated and get scrapped.

i.e. person patents electric car variant. Auto exec sees this and thinks "we could make a lot of money on this!" board meeting happens, choice is made to invest in it. Patent gets purchased, experimentation gets done, Problems get found, logistics snag up prototype production, project gets scrapped. Result: Car company gets accused of suppressing tech. they "don't want out"

There are ALWAYS other solutions that don't require a big conspiracy. Occums razor: The simplest solution is usually the correct one. And in this case, the simplest solution is that things are harder in reality then theory. A problem that anyone who has tried to produce any invention has come across.

There are often cars that a manufacturer starts production on that never reach a finished product. I remember wondering when the "Jeep Icon" would be produced, then finding out it was canceled after coming across press releases about it. And this "concept car" is one of a multitude.

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A recent innovation: Someone has invented an engine, really just a slightly modified one that runs partly on water to extend the distance you can travel with it. The method it works is after the engine is nice and hot, you spray in water into the hot cylinder. Every X number of cycles it's water instead of gas. The heat generated flash boils the water to steam, giving you some power, and it's just getting energy back out of the heat that the engine normally has to expend energy to eliminate. With a modified cooling system it was able to increase gas mileage by 40% I think. (could be wrong on the percentage) This engine hasn't made it to production, due to the rather obvious problems of increased wear and tear on the cylinders. After all, over time, guess what water does to steel? Even stainless steels don't resist corrosion as well at higher temps, and higher wear situations. This problem could be overcome by more and more expensive alloys of stainless steel. End result: to make the engine viable and last long enough to be of practical use required making the engine alone cost far too much to make it viable in a car for the prices people would be willing to pay.

As a side note, Hydrogen storage problems is what convinced NASA to scrap the X-33 project. (i.e. the venturestar program, supposed to replace the space shuttles) A company here in utah trying to make a lightweight tank lining that could increase efficiency enough to make the project viable failed, badly. Without a lightweight tank, enough efficiency to make the design work was unavailable, and NASA simple stuck with the existing space shuttle fleet. using heavy external tanks that must be dropped off to complete the flight. The storage can be done, but there are so many problems to overcome before lightweight storage containers are build. Keep in mind weight on a car effects efficiency....
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned alcohol fuel yet... There's a whole bunch of "waste biomass" lying around in the form of leaves, cornstalks,etc; why not use some yeast and solar stills to make alcohol? Sure, alcohol doesn't have the same energy density as an gasoline but nearly free fuel from garbage is better than nothing...
 
Thank you all for contributing, I was hoping to spark a nice rational "thinking mans discussion/debate" and it seems to have worked.

Alcohol, Shweet I forgot to even bring that up.

I breed large colonies of mice and rats (fancy pet store varieties) and I have a huge compost pile from cleaning the cages.

There is something about rodent pee that causes very rapid fermentation of the waste, And I have thought about different ways to use solar to evaporate the alcohol from this compost, use the cold water from the creek in my back yard to condense it, then use the resulting alcohol as fuel.

Get a big sticker for my car - powered by rat piss.

Couple all the exercise wheels to little generators to charge batteries and run lights. (just kidding)
 
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As a side note, Alcohol is gaining quite a bit of use. Biodiesel is made I think by mixing alcohol with oils. (petrol, or vegetable) etc. And right now there are plants being built to ferment switchgrass into alcohol instead of corn. I would list it under "new techs already in use" not "techs suppressed by evil consipracy" All in all this has been a fun thread to read and post in
 
All in all this has been a fun thread to read and post in


Thanks!:beer:

Maybe I am missing something, but when I look at the equipment needed by the average Joe to convert restaurant drippings into bio diesel I'd rather just buy the gasoline.

Now Alcohol on the other hand, at least I can mix some drinks while I wait for the still to finish it's work. (excluding my rat piss formula of course, I'd mix drinks for some of my neighbors with that)
 
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Thanks!:beer:

Maybe I am missing something, but when I look at the equipment needed by the average Joe to convert restaurant drippings into bio diesel I'd rather just buy the gasoline.

Now Alcohol on the other hand, at least I can mix some drinks while I wait for the still to finish it's work. (excluding my rat piss formula of course, I'd mix drinks for some of my neighbors with that)

Granted. I'll give you that biodiesel is not a make in your bathtub kind of thing. though going off wikipedia, biodiesel production is measured in several million tons per year, My point was that it's starting to take off, and is made from 6 parts alcohol to 1 part oils. (the oils of course could be your restaurant drippings, lol) Either way. It's commercialized alcohol for fuel production, as the largest by volume ingredient is still alcohols, which are largely being produced from fermenting biomass in huge quantities. Although the oil that it needs to be reacted with can come from plants as well, or just be petroleum based oils.

Although Wikipedia is far from a perfect source of info, It still has a fair amount of usefulness :D

Biodiesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Biodiesel production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Look at the hardware in Norther Tool (catalog)

A DIY would need a whole garage dedicated to making it, and a huge cash investment.

Then I would be inclined to do evil things with the glycerin by product......
 
In high school, my auto shop teacher used to tell us about a super carburetor that was invented (before I was born) that made it possible for the car to get 100mpg. He then said the car and oil companies bought the patent to it and vaulted it. I've heard this story told by a lot of old people, but figured it was urban legend. What do you guys think? True or BS?

Not simply a carburator, a whole new concept of motor ..... the double-chambers cylinders motor that i mentioned, is this one (very schematic, sorry), and is real ..... or, better said, it was real ..... i seen it when they presented it in TV more than 20 years ago, as a motor revolution ..... then no more news, and i can't find the patent anywhere (but can just be my guilty, not knowing the exact name and number of the patent, to not found it).

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I see, interesting concept. The info on the concept of how it works does suggest it is more likely a legitimate point of debate! Although patents don't just vanish, they can be difficult to find without adequate detailed info on what to look for. Hmmm. It could still be a situation of the patent was bought, and problems were found that made it useless for real world mass production. i.e. with no piston scraping the sides of the upper cylinder, perhaps it suffers from "gunk" buildup over time that limits the life of the engine without expensive maintenance. Anything that makes an engine not run as long could get a project canceled if they can't get a work around easily.
 
Remember the rotary engine?? (Wankel) what ever happened to that, My grandfather machined parts at Ingersol Rand for that one.

If I remember BMW even put it to use once.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned alcohol fuel yet... There's a whole bunch of "waste biomass" lying around in the form of leaves, cornstalks,etc; why not use some yeast and solar stills to make alcohol? Sure, alcohol doesn't have the same energy density as an gasoline but nearly free fuel from garbage is better than nothing...

Alcohol sounds all well and good in theory, but it's not as simple as just "ferment the waste and you get alcohol". The chemistry is a lot more complicated. With corn, you basically get straight at the cellulose to make the sugar, which is what ferments. With waste (wood shavings, cornstalks, the switchgrass that is getting so much attention), the sugar is locked up where the chemistry can't get to it. One big problem is the OTHER stuff in the material besides the cellulose/sugar, like lignin. Lignin is a big problem when trying to make bio-ethanol from cellulosic materials (which all the waste biomass is cellulosic). Basically, all the EXTRA chemistry that is required makes it WAY more expensive than using say, beans or corn, and also often makes it more toxic (one popular method is using gigantic amounts of sulfuric acid, for instance, to get past the lignin and let the chemistry get to the cellulose). For it to be cost-effective, it has to be on a massive scale, and getting laboratory chemistry into large scales is a big process that takes a long time in and of itself. There are some great ideas out there, like enzymes and biological solutions that can attack the lignin and break up the other crap so the chemistry can get to the cellulose, but very little of it as at industrial scale yet, and it's way more expensive. But people are working on it.

Remember the rotary engine?? (Wankel) what ever happened to that, My grandfather machined parts at Ingersol Rand for that one.

If I remember BMW even put it to use once.

Rotary engines are being used. At the very least, Mazda is still putting rotary engines in the RX-8, they're out there.
 
Not sure if anyone has said this already, but one of the main problems of doing that is, if you use hydrogen for fuel for cars, If the cars get into a accident.... BOOM!!! HUGE HYDROGEN BOMB!
 
one other thing, if the hydrogen leak isn't ignited, it will dissipate into the air. gasoline, on the other hand, will hang around on the ground just waiting for an ignition source.
 





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