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Bad business with tonyt!!!

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Atomicrox

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Except I don't live in any of those and the rest (~10%) of the members are scattered
throughout the world :(
 



Blaster

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Well guess what you have Australia nearest person is 680 km away as the crow flies and i don't have the time always waiting if i want to wait i get it from China or hong Kong and wait a month i want local because I'm going to get it and its FAST express post, do we live a a world ppl cant be trusted as in nobody its a judgement call. i pay i get it soon not wait if i pay express, second person is like a second customs stop more time, i thought we are passionate about our hobby ,who else isn't going to want it ASAP if they pay for it in their own country ...money is an issue but so is time if you wait over four weeks I'm over the item, the excitement has gone and I'm pissed it took so long to arrive
 
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Atomicrox

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You guys are too spoiled :p
Here *any* international shipping takes 1-3 months to arrive. And it seems the timespan is random and has nothing to do with which shipping type (and cost) the seller paid.

Edit: TBH I've had 3 or 4 packages ever arrive in 2 or 3 weeks. But it's rare.
 
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EpicHam

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Most of the packages I order usually arrive within a week of being shipped so yeah lol
Even from the states.
You guys really should move to a major city.
 

Atomicrox

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By major city you mean major country.. The city I live in has 3 fucking million people.
Sorry for the rant but it really pisses me off that everything sucks down here.
 

Blaster

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You guys are too spoiled :p
Here *any* international shipping takes 1-3 months to arrive. And it seems the timespan is random and has nothing to do with which shipping type (and cost) the seller paid.

Edit: TBH I've had 3 or 4 packages ever arrive in 2 or 3 weeks. But it's rare.
You don't have a location so its hard to put the why it takes so long, with letters out of the mail system most of them the post should be faster not slower maybe its me but waiting sucks mainly because I'm worried about whether it will arrive or customs is gonna grab it
 

EpicHam

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By major city you mean major country.. The city I live in has 3 fucking million people.
Sorry for the rant but it really pisses me off that everything sucks down here.
so... is it some Slavic country?
 

Spooky

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I can see a problem with having brokers.

I'm in the UK (anybody can have my personal details, it's on my web page and the bottom of every email I send :))

Lets imagine I want to sell a 5w laser to a member in Oz

I find a broker in Oz

I send laser to broker in Oz, it arrives safely

Buyer sends money to broker in Ox, it arrives safely.

Broker sends money to me in UK, it arrives safely

Broker sends Laser to buyer in Oz, it gets picked up by the authorities in transit and seized.

Buyer has completed their responsibilities, they have paid
I have completed my responsibilities ,I have sent laser to broker who has received it

I have money, buyer has no laser

Who is responsible for the seized laser?

Shipping legal items around is fine but when you use a broker to effectively assist in committing a crime in some cases things can get very complicated. Take the US, a third party assisting in the commission of a crime turns a misdemeanour into a felony.
In the UK it turns a crime into "Joint enterprise" or "conspiracy to commit".

To see how serious this can make things have a look at R. v. Jones (Peter),2002. where the sentence was quadrupled due to conspiracy being charged.

In the example I haven't broken the law, export to a country where possession is illegal isn't a crime but the Buyer and broker in Oz have committed a criminal conspiracy.

Just my thoughts ;)

cheers

Dave
 

EpicHam

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I can see a problem with having brokers.

I'm in the UK (anybody can have my personal details, it's on my web page and the bottom of every email I send :))

Lets imagine I want to sell a 5w laser to a member in Oz

I find a broker in Oz

I send laser to broker in Oz, it arrives safely

Buyer sends money to broker in Ox, it arrives safely.

Broker sends money to me in UK, it arrives safely

Broker sends Laser to buyer in Oz, it gets picked up by the authorities in transit and seized.

Buyer has completed their responsibilities, they have paid
I have completed my responsibilities ,I have sent laser to broker who has received it

I have money, buyer has no laser

Who is responsible for the seized laser?

Shipping legal items around is fine but when you use a broker to effectively assist in committing a crime in some cases things can get very complicated. Take the US, a third party assisting in the commission of a crime turns a misdemeanour into a felony.
In the UK it turns a crime into "Joint enterprise" or "conspiracy to commit".

To see how serious this can make things have a look at R. v. Jones (Peter),2002. where the sentence was quadrupled due to conspiracy being charged.

In the example I haven't broken the law, export to a country where possession is illegal isn't a crime but the Buyer and broker in Oz have committed a criminal conspiracy.

Just my thoughts ;)

cheers

Dave

That situation has already been considered before .
Thats why we don't ship to places where its illegal to own a non-compliant laser.
Right?

I believe if barter trade is to be carried out there are 3 parameters that must be satisfied. (Just can think of 2 atm)

Code of Practise for LPF Intermember Trade
[COP0001A]

1: The goods transacted is legal in the recipient and sender's country

2: The status of the goods stated are found to be compliant with the terms agreed upon before certified agent issues a Certificate of Compliance (COC).
Once the COC has been issued and subsequently acknowledged by the trading parties. The agent will then ships the goods to the locations as stated on the contract.
2(a): The responsibility to ensure the terms as stated on the contract are carried out accurately and swiftly falls upon the the party who put forth the trade when agents are not employed for the process.
2(b): If an agent is employed.The terms will be as followed .
2(b) -i.
Any unexpected additional cost (Import tax or customs tax unknown the either party) or unpredicted turn of events
[{E.g: Items becoming faulty after customs inspection , item damaged on arrival (when sufficient foam has been used to reduce the risk) } - please refer to protocol B1 if items are damaged due to insufficient packing material used by either sender. ]
The cost of replacement falls evenly on both parties unless unequivocal and specific evidence points toward negligence by anyone of the parties . Each party will be responsible for the return postage fee unless rules stated on Protocol B1 is violated.
At which case LPF Moderators will be summoned upon to sit as Honorary Judges at the LPF House of Lords to decide upon who must bare the majority of the responsibility.

2(b)- ii.
The agent will be responsible to record the following process on tape for future reference.
(A): Package arrival ,
(B): Unboxing
(C): Production Inspection (Product's appearance are as described, and performed as specified. Notify both party if anomaly is detected.)

[Please refer to Protocol A1 for required action when anomaly is detected]





Protocol (A1)
If there are discrepancy .
Agents will be responsible for contacting both parties of the situation and he must urges the sender of the faulty product to remedy the situation.
If the sender of the faulty goods (Referred as S.) refuses to remedy the fault. The trade agreement will be terminated with immediate effect.
S. be responsible for the return postal cost for both of the goods specified in the trade agreement.
If the S. refuses to comply . His LPF account will be terminated and permanently banned without appeal.

Protocol (B1)
Sensitive equipment such as lasers are prone to damage by moisture infiltration,excessive temperature change, impact , excessive force . Under the Eggshell skull doctrine. Both parties should be responsible in ensuring their items are not damaged during shipping.
It is understandable that items inevitably might be damaged despite of the precautions taken.
Nevertheless , if it is found that an item becomes damaged due to insufficient packing (To be determined by the certified agent). The sender of the faulty item will be found to be responsible for the damage and must ship a replacement unit or pay for the return postage fee incurred in returning the items back to the opposite sender.
If both items are found to be damaged upon arrival. The senders will be responsible for the return postage fee for their own items.



GOD!
I just realized how much work has gone into those terms and agreement we NEVER read through when we sign the waiver of responsibly documents :crackup:


PS:
Spooky.
Electrical Engineering , Quantum electronics , now LAW.
Are you god , Spooky? :wtf:
 
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Blaster

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Where is it legal to have a over 500mW laser ie high power not 5mW
 

EpicHam

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Where is it legal to have a over 500mW laser ie high power not 5mW
You can own a 70000MW MEGA SUPER DUPER DEATH RAY here in Hong Kong and no one will say a thing lol
(and yes , MILLION Watt. I said it . Not milli)

We have Voluntary Safety Guidelines , not laws when it comes to laser cos .... no one likes laser here :(

Unless you start shooting down planes with it , all the ordinances here are merely for show . The officials can't be arsed .
One time I brought out my greenie and blues to the victoria harbour and played with it for hours.
All that happened was it ended up being a tourist trap and people were lining up for a picture with it lol
 
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IsaacT

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You can own a 70000MW MEGA SUPER DUPER DEATH RAY here in Hong Kong and no one will say a thing lol
(and yes , MILLION Watt. I said it . Not milli)

We have Voluntary Safety Guidelines , not laws when it comes to laser cos .... no one likes laser here :(

Unless you start shooting down planes with it , all the ordinances here are merely for show . The officials can't be arsed .
MW would be megawatt, rather than million watt haha. And next time you come across one hit me up and I will fly over to see it lol. :)
 
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