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FrozenGate by Avery

An Apology for Everyone

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It's as simple as this.... If you filed a claim with PayPal before 60 days you are fine... If you allowed Eitan to Jack you around longer then that you are pretty much s.o.l.
 





Yoshi1988 said:
It's as simple as this.... If you filed a claim with PayPal before 60 days you are fine... If you allowed Eitan to Jack you around longer then that you are pretty much s.o.l.
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I certainly hope you're right. I got my claim in around the 43-45 day mark. Scifi got $890 of my money. I'm not exactly poor, but that's still an awful lot of money. I could've bought a nice 4k Monitor for my gaming PC with that.
 
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https://www.paypal.com/sg/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#7

Look at 7.3 Paypals acceptable use policy, their buyer protection does not cover any items that violate their AUP

I would like to know if anyone has received a pay-pay buyer protection reimbursement in this case, or if anyone has been denied then why?


I am worried that a lot of non members have been cheated and will make complaints, that will bring attention to LPF, none of this is any good.
 
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Razako said:
-Well the prices were too cheap so he couldn't make good money so he had to dip into the operating funds of his company to make ends meet.
-The cheap prices brought in more orders than he could handle.
-He offered really cheap shipping and lost even more money on that.

He basically just plain needed to have his prices more on-par with jetlasers/sanwu etc and make people pay for expedited shipping. He would have lost some business, but it would have averted this nightmarish mess.
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a long time ago, I thought his prices seemed too good to be true. I wondered to myself how much capital if any he had sunk on bulk parts in order to get a big enough discount to make such low prices. I wondered how a one man business could handle assemby when the prices are about what a person would have to pay DTR for the modules and someone like mrcrouse for a plug and burn 501b and do it themselves. when I started hearing about false tracking and multiple people getting the same tracking, and the delaying tactics, I couldn't help but wonder if he was either using current order money to complete previous orders while skimming who knows what percentage off the top, (basically a ponzi scheme), or worse, just taking as much orders as possible to get as much money as possible before his good reputation fizzed out under the overwheming weight of all the bad press from those who grew tired of his delaying tactics.

either way he is firmly in the realm if immoral conduct.

to blame LPF or be driven away by this, well I dont get that. there is so much more going on here than sci fi. Are you kidding me? yes this sucks and folks are out a lot of money. I'm guessing the banner won't be up for much longer, and his site no longer works anyway. I hope all those who are out money will get justice. though I just read some responses made while I typed speaking of non members being directed there from here... yeah I can see how that is a problem. what a tangled web we weave. are you really out $890 Razako? thought it was $400? ouch.

lets not forget the plethora of other people around here offering their knowledge and service. DTR has been around a long time, and from what I see the man runs a great business. honest, fast, transparent, and not greedy

on the patience note, yes customers can be patient. I sent an RPL to jack for repairs well over a year ago. it's a long story but the situation is still not resolved. though it's not Jack's fault. point is, people can be patient, especially when you're honest with them. how could you expect anyone to remain patient when you've been exposed lying to them?
 
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RedCowboy said:
https://www.paypal.com/sg/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#7

Look at 7.3 Paypals acceptable use policy, their buyer protection does not cover any items that violate their AUP

I would like to know if anyone has received a pay-pay buyer protection reimbursement in this case, or if anyone has been denied then why?


I am worried that a lot of non members have been cheated and will make complaints, that will bring attention to LPF, none of this is any good.
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Damn right it's not good. We might even see people trying to sue the site for advertising a fraudulent company. I doubt anything would come of such suites, but it would be bad for Avery to need to deal with that.

The people complaining here probably make up <10% of those who've bought from scifi.
 
mel0n2 said:
Out of curiosity how much money does this guy owe? The store is down. Did he close it and run off permanently? That's not right.
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No idea. In known member complaints probably around $5,000-$10,000 USD. If we're counting lurkers and nonmembers it could be up around the $20,000++++ mark.
 
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This is sci-fi lasers fault.. This is not lpf's fault, this is not paypals fault, this is all on Eitan.
 
RedCowboy said:
https://www.paypal.com/sg/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#7

Read what it says about items not covered

CUSTOM MADE ITEMS and PROHIBTED ITEMS

PP will have already looked at his site and know what the items are, if they deem them prohibited they don't have to pay.

Plus there is no telling how many non members have filed a claim.

I can't be sure one way or the other, but they won't pay if they can get out of it.

If anyone gets a reimbursement or a rejection then post it so others will know.
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That's true. PayPal's own guarantees may fall through. I know this happened with somebody buying ammunition. That'd really suck, and it might even have big consequences elsewhere. PayPal might put more effort in to make sure lasers don't get sold with their service.
 
Rivem said:
That's true. PayPal's own guarantees may fall through. I know this happened with somebody buying ammunition. That'd really suck, and it might even have big consequences elsewhere. PayPal might put more effort in to make sure lasers don't get sold with their service.
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Yeah, currently sites like Jetlasers and Lazerer have a workaround where they email you a paypal money request. We might see stuff like that going away depending on how big this issue is. personally I get disgusted by paypal's efforts to be some kind of moral police. They're a damn financial service. Who the hell are they to say you can't use their service to buy lasers, ammo, guns etc? Just move the damn money.
 
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Elly escalated his claim at 59 days and will hit the 10 day mark this week I think, we will know what the deal is going to be.
 
Hi,
side from the Arcanes the 501 B's are the easies builds out there. even to the novice. Parts are there and drivers , diodes by some tools and go for it . You'll be proud of your self in the long run and won't have to get stressed out for some laser to come 2 moths later.If your an LPF member and have an abundance of knowledge right here there's no reason not to start building your own units. Oh and the best of it is self satisfaction that you did it all and no one to blame but your self if you mess things up LOL!! I love this place it's so cool..

Rich:)
 
That's insane that his website got taken down like that! No questions asked, just gone. Dang. Proves if you mess with people's money, stuff happens quickly.

Oh well.

-Alex
 
Should have stayed at making 10 lasers / week tops, but i guess he got greedy and got what he asked for, he knew exactly how long it takes to make a laser and ship out them so ofc if he had like 30-50 lasers for a week or two to actually build and make everyone understands that its a bit too much for a single person to do that and still have a "life" outside building lasers. Sad he went downhill like this hard to compete with real laser companies that have tons of people that do all the hardwork..
 
Sounds like a load of BS and blaming customers. He didn't even touch on how he lied about tracking numbers and shipping packages.
 
hutt132 said:
Sounds like a load of BS and blaming customers. He didn't even touch on how he lied about tracking numbers and shipping packages.
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Hey now. We just needed to give him more time(AND MONEY) and he'd have it all sorted out.:undecided:
 
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