A Very Disturbing Slate Article on Laser Pointers

[scumbagatheist]

I am not even going to editorialize yet. Just read the article:

Laser pointers: Most red, green lasers are more powerful than allowed by law.

 

[danefex]

frustrating but not surprising :undecided:

 

[scumbagatheist]

Perhaps we should take a page from Reddit's book and organize as responsible laser users and contact the editor of Slate and the author of the article.

It wouldn't hurt our cause to have some responsible voices heard.

 

[Flaminpyro]

This is a good idea, I nominate danefex as the responsible voice all in favor say so !

Perhaps we should take a page from Reddit's book and organize as responsible laser users and contact the editor of Slate and the author of the article.

It wouldn't hurt our cause to have some responsible voices heard.

 

[elbelle]

They give the link to wickedlaser on the article lol, nice advertising !

 

[Bionic-Badger]

Why can't the authorities just blacklist Wicked Lasers instead of anyone else?

 

[blasterman]

The 'Nanny State' at it's best.

While nobody here would disagree with the potential for high powered pointers to cause eye damage, I challenge the author of that article to provide documented examples of this actually happening. Sure, we have plenty of examples of kids shining police helicopters - now show me examples of laser pointers at sporting events causing eye damage. There are none.

The comments after the article pointed out the hypocrisy regarding laser pointers and assault rifles, and I totally agree. I'm far more afraid of the drunk CCW carrier at a sporting event than a kid with a 1watt 445.

The FDA's laser compliance division, like all Government regulatory agencies, needs something to do.

 

[Matrix]

whats so good about the arctic when you can get a rifle v2 laser with all the lens 200 dollars cheaper than that arctic, its just common sense. but the thing is arctics sell more than rifles xD

 

[Trevor]

Let's be fair here - while the article doesn't show handheld lasers in a particularly positive light, there is nothing in there that jumps out at me as inaccurate.

They just said...

• Many cheap laser pointers are more powerful than regulations say they should be.
• Often ten times the regulated power.
• The human eye is vulnerable to laser beams.
• Green lasers emit IR also.
• Retinal burns often go unnoticed.
• Few imported lasers meet guidelines.
• Wicked Lasers Arctic
• Don't point lasers at people or aircraft

While they didn't come out and say "some hobbyists use lasers safely," they also didn't misrepresent the state of lasers in the world today.

We're a tiny, tiny minority. We need to get over ourselves.

While nobody here would disagree with the potential for high powered pointers to cause eye damage, I challenge the author of that article to provide documented examples of this actually happening. Sure, we have plenty of examples of kids shining police helicopters - now show me examples of laser pointers at sporting events causing eye damage. There are none.

There are at least a couple cases of eye damage from mishandling documented in the safety section of the very forum you're browsing.

Moreover, retinal burns are tiny injuries that the brain is very good at glossing over. There's something like a ten degree blind spot right in your field of view in both of your eyes - but you don't know it because your brain interpolates image information.

It treats a retinal burn the same way. The injuries are typically small, but are cumulative and never heal. Just because an athlete has not noticed it does not mean that damage has not been done and will not manifest in the future.

The comments after the article pointed out the hypocrisy regarding laser pointers and assault rifles, and I totally agree. I'm far more afraid of the drunk CCW carrier at a sporting event than a kid with a 1watt 445.

Do you even know what the NOHD of a 1W 445nm laser is? It's on the order of hundreds of meters. Within that distance, it can and will cause retinal burns. Couple that with the general lack of respect people (evidently including you) have for lasers, there's a huge potential for permanent injury. So as the article states, 1W lasers coming into sporting events in the hands of people who probably shouldn't have them is pretty bad.

Plus, I believe your CCW comparison is completely invalid - owing to the fact that most states prohibit concealed carry at public events such as a sporting event or race. Security at these sorts of events is typically pretty good at finding guns, and won't let you bring them in.

But it's obviously much easier to bring in a laser unnoticed.

The FDA's laser compliance division, like all Government regulatory agencies, needs something to do.

Their regulations have surprisingly little effect on us. They really only get annoyed if you try to smuggle a laser into the country from China, or build something that doesn't meet regulations and try to sell it.

We know how to properly handle lasers, but let's not go so far as to marginalize the risks of other people improperly handling them.

Trevor

 

[DrSid]

Actually I want some kind of regulation. I will gladly pass any test and I will gladly obtain any license needed. Lasers are getting cheaper and stronger, and 'anyone' is not getting any wiser.

 

[Encap]

Their regulations have surprisingly little effect on us. They really only get annoyed if you try to smuggle a laser into the country from China, or build something that doesn't meet regulations and try to sell it.

We know how to properly handle lasers, but let's not go so far as to marginalize the risks of other people improperly handling them.

Trevor

Both very true--except the "they really get annoyed...." isn't without adding if they become aware of same.

I am very surprised at how unaware they are and that people contiuously advertise and sell home made lasers which violates the rules and regualtions. That people get away with importing lasers which violate the rules and regualtions from China and resell them as a USA business on web sites which again violates the rules and regulations all the time and the FDA does not pick up on it or do anything about same.

The "surprising little effect on us" part is 100% amazingly true.
I would guess that the FDA does not have many enforcement people nor people on the lookout for laser searching for people acting in violation of the laser rules and regs until a complaint is made/ Guessing again that lasers is a low priority for them and they have a lot to do in other areas that are more important and pose a more significant and immediate thraet.

That we know how to safely operate is the saving grace, I think. Causing no problems is causing no problems--that some people misuse lasers is unfortunate for everyone in the long run because it highlights potential for problems for all the "sky is falling, the sky is falling" types so common in government.

 

[blasterman]

Do you even know what the NOHD of a 1W 445nm laser is? It's on the order of hundreds of meters.

At present I don't think I have a functional 445 pointer. I'm too busy running a couple businesses using the damn things as safely as I can, and honestly don't get the attraction of the battery powered pointers.

I have two relatives who are E-R surgeons. Last time we talked they had never admitted anybody in for retina burns from lasers, but do recall kids burning themselves with improper use of li-ion batteries. Statistically the batteries used to power pointers are more dangerous than the diodes themselves.

Couple that with the general lack of respect people (evidently including you) have for lasers,

1. You're a d-bag
2. Nah, that's insulting for d-bags

So as the article states, 1W lasers coming into sporting events in the hands of people who probably shouldn't have them is pretty bad.

A-holes at sporting events = bad. A-holes at sporting events with high powered pointers = bad. A-holes running half watt lasers into crowds at half the bars in town because they have a variance and think they can do what they want = bad. I'm none of the above.

The FDA regulates products. They don't regulate their use because that would make sense, and more importantly, you can't get budget dollars if your favorite committe member isn't getting their election donations form somebody in manufacturing.

Plus, I believe your CCW comparison is completely invalid - owing to the fact that most states prohibit concealed carry at public events such as a sporting event or race.

6months ago I kicked a guy out of my place carrying three pistols while watching a sporting event. Somebody caught him in the bathroom checking his ankle pistol and narked. 3 cops showed up, escorted him out to the parking lot, then laughed and slapped him on the back because he had a CCW.

If he had a 30mw cat chaser they would have confiscated it, and frankly, that's uttery hypocritical. I believe that's what's pissing people off here. I otherwise don't care what some East Coast writer is hyping up because he can't get a real job.

Security at these sorts of events is typically pretty good at finding guns, and won't let you bring them in.

I live in a state where this will soon be legal...so check your facts.

 

[Trevor]

Lemme break this down a little bit, skipping the irrelevant bits.

I have two relatives who are E-R surgeons. Last time we talked they had never admitted anybody in for retina burns from lasers, but do recall kids burning themselves with improper use of li-ion batteries. Statistically the batteries used to power pointers are more dangerous than the diodes themselves.

99% of the time with a retinal burn, damage is not immediately apparent. People don't rush off to the ER for a laser hit.

They might mention it to their ophthalmologist if they happen to remember it. Then, upon closer examination, retinal burns will be apparent.

A-holes at sporting events = bad. A-holes at sporting events with high powered pointers = bad. A-holes running half watt lasers into crowds at half the bars in town because they have a variance and think they can do what they want = bad. I'm none of the above.

Yup. I see we don't disagree.

6months ago I kicked a guy out of my place carrying three pistols while watching a sporting event. Somebody caught him in the bathroom checking his ankle pistol and narked. 3 cops showed up, escorted him out to the parking lot, then laughed and slapped him on the back because he had a CCW.

If he had a 30mw cat chaser they would have confiscated it, and frankly, that's uttery hypocritical. I believe that's what's pissing people off here. I otherwise don't care what some East Coast writer is hyping up because he can't get a real job.

Quick note - 30mW is way too much for a cat toy.

Perhaps I should explain this slightly better.

If someone pulls out a gun and appears to be preparing to fire on the field or fans, people will realize that others are about to get hurt. They might even do something. Authorities will, in all likelihood, be summoned.

If someone pulls out a high powered handheld laser (1W+, for the sake of the example), no one will do anything, because they lack an inherent respect for the device. Even if the person with the laser turns it on and points it at players and other fans, actually causing physical harm in the form of eye damage, people will probably not react or report it. It's just a function of the public not understanding lasers and their potential to do harm. To them, someone is just annoying the players, or opposing fans. They don't realize harm is being done.

We, as hobbyists, shouldn't marginalize the risks associated with ignorant members of the public mishandling lasers. If you look in the safety section, even hobbyists can hurt themselves sometimes - and they're actively trying not to.

This article does not target hobbyists at all, nor does it target people who use lasers professionally. It simply points out that a lot of members of the public have lasers that do not meet safety guidelines. It also points out that these lasers are often misused and can cause harm.

It's our job, as hobbyists, to be ambassadors for proper safety practices and advocates for sane regulation. If we have a huge backlash at everything negative that is ever said about handheld lasers, we just make ourselves look bad.

Trevor

 

[Encap]

If someone pulls out a high powered handheld laser (1W+, for the sake of the example), no one will do anything, because they lack an inherent respect for the device. Even if the person with the laser turns it on and points it at players and other fans, actually causing physical harm in the form of eye damage, people will probably not react or report it. It's just a function of the public not understanding lasers and their potential to do harm. To them, someone is just annoying the players, or opposing fans. They don't realize harm is being done.

We, as hobbyists, shouldn't marginalize the risks associated with ignorant members of the public mishandling lasers. If you look in the safety section, even hobbyists can hurt themselves sometimes - and they're actively trying not to.

This article does not target hobbyists at all, nor does it target people who use lasers professionally. It simply points out that a lot of members of the public have lasers that do not meet safety guidelines. It also points out that these lasers are often misused and can cause harm.

It's our job, as hobbyists, to be ambassadors for proper safety practices and advocates for sane regulation. If we have a huge backlash at everything negative that is ever said about handheld lasers, we just make ourselves look bad.

Trevor

Exactly, Trevor---100% clear thinking and sound observations.

No news is good news for the laser hobby.
All we can do is try in whatever way to educate people on proper and safe use. There will always be the odd man out that does something profoundly stupid out of either ignorance or malice and there will always be the occasional accident---this is true of anything.

 

[danefex]

This is a good idea, I nominate danefex as the responsible voice all in favor say so !

HA! I'll step up when things calm down a bit, if they ever do I usually dont do too well under scrutiny & pressure with people who just dont get it :crackup:

:beer:

 

[gecko991]

I agree there is a lot of truth in that. I wonder how many pointing incidents involved safe FDA approved Wicked Laser types. They want it idiot proof, we will just make a better idiot.