The Nootropics Thread

[Vision]

Nootropic is a term for a supplement that is ingested primarily for its effects on the brain. Those include supplements made to increase cognition, focus, alertness, or overall well being.​

The basics:

• When did you learn about them?
  
• What are you on and for how long have you been on?
  
• How have they helped you? Before and after experience.

Been on for 10 years now? Started when I was little. It works amazing when you're still learning and absorbing all kinds of knowledge from books, school, etc.

Been on Piracetam, quit and then gotPramiracetam, no longer works for me as I have the enhanced effects of them permanently now. Woke up. Felt as if I was on racetam, wasn't, stopped talking them for 6 month, took them again. Nothing. Permanence is something amazing to achieve. Should definitely be studied more. I do take it from time to time just for to be sure.

My stack for the past few years:

• Pramiracetam
• Alpha GPC
• Modafinil
• Vinpocetine
• Weekly Cerebrolysin injection
• NSI-189
• 5-HTP
• NA-Semax
• L-theanine
• Bacopa
• Huperzine A
• Ashwagandha
• Lion's Mane
• African Dream Root

Every single vitamin there is + My usual bodybuilding supplements.
Whey, Creatine, some BCAAs every now and then and a preworkout during cutting.

As far as how they helped me. I'm not gonna go into details but I've felt every enhancement there is from them. Much more vivid colors, faster reaction time, reduced learning curve, amazing auditory function improvements, fresh feeling every morning when I wake up.

Note: Not all came at once, I have tried many things that didn't work. Its all trial and error combined with individual reaction with different chemical compounds.

There is just too much too add. I suggest you guys check out the references and learn more if you aren't familiar with them yet.

Cons:

Beginner Side Effects: Like when I first started. Headaches in the beginning. Its the blood barrier being crossed. Felt amazing a few times. Very weak and manageable headache tho, for a kid.

2+ Years on Side Effects: Short term memory explosion. Since most of them enhance your long term memory. That short term is gonna look so weak compared to the long term. That's when I started adding short term and very fast enhancing compounds to alleviate that. Its not that your short term is weak, just that I started with long term enhancing compounds. Got a little bit of a leap forward. Definitely recommend supplementing with both types of compounds.

Conclusion: Would I associate my undying love for learning more and more and getting multiple degrees to Nootropics?
Maybe, maybe not.

I thought this thread would be a good idea seeing as a few members already do supplement with them.

Scientific Reference And Basic Information on Nootropics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic

https://examine.com/supplements/nootropic/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-pied-piper-of-nootropics/

Nootriment - Health Supplement Reviews and Research

https://www.google.com

 

[Seoul_lasers]

I am very skeptical about any supplements especially ones that have had little to no clinical trials. as an example Pramiracetam N-[2-(Diisopropylamino)ethyl]-2-(2-oxopyrrolidin-1-yl)acetamide for instance is a central nervous system stimulant with a very short history of use in Europe for treating dementia and head trauma. There is however a few serious side effects including a few cases of
serotonin level related headaches which were reported being severe in nature. initial trials were mixed about its effectiveness.
Cambridge Neuroscience, Inc, the patent holder of the drug abandoned further development on 11/04/1991.
It does not have FDA approval in the US.

Summary
That long laundry list of supplements and stimulants you posted:
Quite a few of them are manufactured in countries without laws governing their quality control. (ie.. PRC)
Quite a few of the active ingredients are non-FDA / abandoned designer drugs.
You have no idea what these can do to you over the long term as clinical trial data doesn't exist on them.


:can:

 

[Vision]

Except for someone taking them for the last 10 years, other than headaches I have suffered no other side effects. Neither did many users of the Reddit and longecity forum.
The FDA is an absolute joke. My U.S sources, this includes massive pharmaceutical company CEOs, who are personal friends, think the same. Most successful drug trials are done outside the U.S. The U.S isn't any near to being a medical haven. This isn't adderall, most of the racetam studies showed massive increase in connection of neurons strength. You should list most of the studies and not one in favor of your skepticism.

Quality control like what? Patent to steal millions? Modafinil sells in the thousands in the U.S and in India its less than $25 for 100 tablets. Chemical composition is exactly the same. Except for release time. Proven by countless threads on r/nootropics. My sources for most of the drugs are research companies in the U.S. Everyone had a price. I do know what these can do for me because I've been on them for longer than any trial, I do monthly medical checkups. I think 10 years is enough for a long term trial. Some users have been on much longer than me. I have spent more money on nootropics than most people earn per year, I have tried a lot. The only risk are supplements marketed as Nootropics but use massive change in brain hormones. Modafinil being a mild example, many have reported horrible experiences, I didnt get any of those side effects. No one is gonna find a good nootropics trial, not anytime soon, people with long term experience are the best shot.

If you're skeptical, pickup a UCB Pharma piracetam and alpha gpc or any choline source. Combine them, try them for a few months then we'll see. Anyone with anything less than a year of personal experience on them, will be a skeptic, even tho most of the studies show great results.

Nice comment but you should visit longecity forums brain health section first. :tinfoil:

 

[Rivem]

Are nootropics really all that helpful? I used to know a few kids that used them in high school, but none seem to have had huge benefits.

I can get them giving some extra focus and mental clarity, but better memory and cognition? Do the effects depend on where you are already; if your IQ and memory are already top notch or poor, are there differences in efficacy?

Never seemed worth the risk to me, but I'm genuinely curious as to what this stuff actually can do.

 

[RedCowboy]

I know 5-HTP is connected to tryptophan, the stuff that makes you feel warm and sleepy after thanksgiving turkey, I used to know all the specifics, but in short it will jack up your feel good "GABA" as 5-htp is the precursor to GABA but like any outside chemical it imbalances your natural chemical balance, we are chemical, if we are hungry, h0rny, sleepy, happy, sad, or mad it is chemicals in the brain, natural chemicals, but if we play with them we can get high, but for a high there will be a low or a big dang crash if you go too far.

BE CARFUL with 5-HTP it can increase your GABA just like drinking alcohol or taking benzos, it will make you feel good, take more feel better, stop taking it and OHT - OHH.

Your receptors will reduce in number and natural production declines, it's also called addiction, not a pleasant thing, taking a lot and suddenly stopping could cause a you to be very very unhappy and receptors can take a long time to recover.

 

[Benm]

5-HTP is a serotonin precursor that can pass the blood-brain-barrier, unlike serotonin itself. It binds to the serotonin receptors rather than gaba receptors so acts on a different system than benzo's.

The idea is that a higher serotonin to dopamine ratio will reduce problems like depression, perhaps even put you in a good mood and such.

The downside is that 5-htp is not only metabolized in the brain, but also to a large extent in the liver. This poses a risk because it releases large amounts of serotonin in the bloodstream.

This can cause pretty severe symptoms like increased heart rate and fever, and can be deadly.

Normally this is not a huge problem because serotonin is broken down by the body readily. This all changes when you also take a MAO inhibitor (a fair number of anti-depressants and anti-phychotic drugs are MAOIs, as well as medication for dementia and such) disabling that pathway. If you are taking an SSRI for depression there is also the danger of getting -very- high serotonin levels in the brain than can cause serious complications.


That said, taking a modest dose of 5-htp if you are not on any medication and in good health does not pose much of a risk. I've tried myself, did not get sick, but did not get -any- noticable effect either even with half a gram (this is about double the dose though to be 'effective').

I'm not sure of a risk of addiction due to down-regulation of expression of serotonin receptors. Perhaps it could happen with extreme doses that produce xtc-like effects, but i'd consider those far too dangerous too try... straihgt mdma is probably a safer bet at that point.

 

[Vision]

Yup, my dose for 5-HTP varies from 250 to 450.

 

[Vision]

Are nootropics really all that helpful? I used to know a few kids that used them in high school, but none seem to have had huge benefits.

I can get them giving some extra focus and mental clarity, but better memory and cognition? Do the effects depend on where you are already; if your IQ and memory are already top notch or poor, are there differences in efficacy?

Never seemed worth the risk to me, but I'm genuinely curious as to what this stuff actually can do.

Long term, 2+ years, you will feel the effects on memory. I mean they don't make you a genius but they strengthen the neuron connections, which is better than nothing. Its absolutely impossible to know because the studies are short term and do not test cognition the way its meant to be tested. As I said, pickup the 2 basic noots, try them for 6+months and see for yourself. Do not take anything like modafinil or hormone stimulants, they make you feel better but don't really affect your neurons. Worse thing than can happen is that you're a non-responder and they don't affect your senses/enhance them but they will still work on your brain.

 

[Rivem]

Long term, 2+ years, you will feel the effects on memory. I mean they don't make you a genius but they strengthen the neuron connections, which is better than nothing. Its absolutely impossible to know because the studies are short term and do not test cognition the way its meant to be tested. As I said, pickup the 2 basic noots, try them for 6+months and see for yourself. Do not take anything like modafinil or hormone stimulants, they make you feel better but don't really affect your neurons. Worse thing than can happen is that you're a non-responder and they don't affect your senses/enhance them but they will still work on your brain.

Still not very interested in doing this myself, but seems like an interesting topic. I'm satisfied with my memory and intellectual ability enough right now. If there was something that could really boost my energy and motivation though.:thinking:

 

[Vision]

Still not very interested in doing this myself, but seems like an interesting topic. I'm satisfied with my memory and intellectual ability enough right now. If there was something that could really boost my energy and motivation though.:thinking:

I got something for you. If you're willing to try it that is.

Modafinil - 100mg + A Multivitamin + 100mg Caffeine when you wake up.

Effects: Increased Dopamine levels. The feel good hormone.

Keep it at 3-5 days a week. Your dopamine receptors will down regulate if you continue taking them everyday. At least 2-3 days off. 100mg is a very weak dose, you might not feel anything. 200mg max.

Half Life: I'd say 12 hours. You will feel amazing. Maybe another dose of multivamin or Vitamin C + B12 to prevent that caffeine crash or don't take caffeine.

Side effects: Increased heart rate if you take it on an empty stomach.

There are natural alternatives but don't work as good.

USA, patents, modafinil/provigil costing as much as my 7W laser. :crackup:

Good Luck. :na:

 

[Rivem]

I got something for you. If you're willing to try it that is.

Modafinil - 100mg + A Multivitamin + 100mg Caffeine when you wake up.

Effects: Increased Dopamine levels. The feel good hormone.

Keep it at 3-5 days a week. Your dopamine receptors will down regulate if you continue taking them everyday. At least 2-3 days off. 100mg is a very weak dose, you might not feel anything. 200mg max.

Half Life: I'd say 12 hours. You will feel amazing. Maybe another dose of multivamin or Vitamin C + B12 to prevent that caffeine crash or don't take caffeine.

Side effects: Increased heart rate if you take it on an empty stomach.

There are natural alternatives but don't work as good.

USA, patents, modafinil/provigil costing as much as my 7W laser. :crackup:

Good Luck. :na:

Thanks. I'll guess I'll look into it.

I've got to talk to the doc about some new family medical history and try some extra vitamin supplementation first. Turns out most of my family is pretty seriously low on vitamin D, and they're hearing it can cause this kind of stuff. We're white, live in the sunniest part of the country, have pretty good diets, and it's still an issue.

 

[Vision]

Thanks. I'll guess I'll look into it.

I've got to talk to the doc about some new family medical history and try some extra vitamin supplementation first. Turns out most of my family is pretty seriously low on vitamin D, and they're hearing it can cause this kind of stuff. We're white, live in the sunniest part of the country, have pretty good diets, and it's still an issue.

Oh trust me, same thing here. I'm not low on Vitamin D but, I take every single vitamin there is and overdose on it like 1G+ over the limit. Excrete most of it out but can never be too safe. I usually take now foods vitamin D at a dose of 5000-10,000 IU. Cheapest and best brand. Doctors usually give out the more expensive and "reputable" ones. Cost 10x and has 100X lower dose. I don't think sun exposure guarantees your Vitamin D levels, you mention family issues, most likely genetic and many other factors.

>https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/VDR

 

[diachi]

Thanks. I'll guess I'll look into it.

I've got to talk to the doc about some new family medical history and try some extra vitamin supplementation first. Turns out most of my family is pretty seriously low on vitamin D, and they're hearing it can cause this kind of stuff. We're white, live in the sunniest part of the country, have pretty good diets, and it's still an issue.

Try out Vitamin B12 - Good energy booster I've found. Cod liver oil doesn't hurt either.

Adrafinil is the prodrug to Modafinil - don't need a prescription like you do with Modafinil, you can order it online and it does the same thing, although it's a bit less potent so the dose is higher. Also, it's way cheaper.

Get Caffeine and L-Theanine - the L-Theanine balances out any caffeine jitters. Can usually get them together in pill form. Green tea is a good natural source of caffeine, as is coffee.

I find that the racetams I've tried (Piracetam, phenylpiracetam and noopept) give me a bit of a mood and energy boost but that doesn't seem to be what you're looking for.

Much of what can be achieved with nootropics and other supplements can often be achieved naturally. Get enough sleep, drink enough water, eat healthy, exercise and meditate. Of course, you can always add nootropics and other supplements in there for an extra "boost". Some nootropics seem to be good for social anxiety and such too actually, something none of the above would fix. I started to love talking to people after getting into nootropics earlier this year - maybe it's just coincidence.

 

[Vision]

I started to love talking to people after getting into nootropics earlier this year - maybe it's just coincidence.

Nope. That was the first thing I noticed with piracetam. Just wanna talk, be around people, get more socially active. Make new friends. Discuss.

It gives you an amazing confidence boost.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

Nope. That was the first thing I noticed with piracetam. Just wanna talk, be around people, get more socially active. Make new friends. Discuss.

It gives you an amazing confidence boost.

If you are finding that supplements are helping you then great. I worry about long term effects that have yet to be discovered.

PLEASE PLEASE be extremely careful.

Better safe then sorry long term down the road. :tinfoil:

 

[Vision]

If you are finding that supplements are helping you then great. I worry about long term effects that have yet to be discovered.

PLEASE PLEASE be extremely careful.

Better safe then sorry long term down the road. :tinfoil:

Will be! And I agree.
Thanks.
:beer: