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The Nootropics Thread

diachi

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Just wondering if anyone else has had this experience.

Here's the background. Stopped taking all of my supplements/nootropics for a little over a week. Took a little too much methylphenidate a couple of weekends ago and decided a break from everything (Mostly ... I'd likely commit murder without coffee/cigarettes) would be a good idea in order to return to baseline, or at least near it.

Started back up on the B12/Fish Oil/Racetams this week and all week I've been having crazy/vivid dreams. I'm not complaining - I enjoy them - but has anyone else had this experience?

Only other change this week that I can think of is that I've been drinking protein shakes again since my new batch showed up - but that shouldn't be causing it.
 
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Benm

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Dreams are one of the most subjective parameters of all, especially when self-reporting. Normally you should dream every night several times, but often you will simply not remember doing so.

Afaik there is no substance that would greatly increase your chances or remembering a dream, apart from your own expectations.

Personally i have found that some things tend to get me into pretty deep daydreams that i somehow often remember (possibly by usually being awakened from them abruptly). Outright fatigue over a long period of time increases chances for me, as well as some mildly sedating anti-histaminics like cetirizine or diphenhydramide do. I take those to treat allergies and would not recommend taking them otherwise, but the side effect is interesting at least.
 

Vision

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After I started taking nootropics I was definitely getting vivid dreams every day. Trying to control your brain by forcing it to remember things seem to work, since those functions are normally automated, its not something the brain priorities, only when it deems fit. I trained myself to remember them by trying to remember them as soon as I wake up. If I'm not in a hurry or going anywhere, I'll spent like 30 mins trying to focus and it has been great. I can now remember what I dream of almost everyday. I'd say it definitely has to do with neuron connections and communication. Any drug that will help improve neuroplasticity will lead to the brain functioning to a whole another level. Acetylcholine seems to be the key to lucid dreaming and other brain functions. We need studies. Obviously with something that's as hit and miss as this, with almost no profit, most research companies won't focus on that, for now.
 

Benm

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I think there could be some commercial value in substances that allow you to recollect dreams. I'm sure people in psychology and such would find it quite interesting if their patients could remember their dreams reliably, and would be happy to prescribe such substances.

Substances that could help with lucid dreaming would be something totally different, and probably be declared illegal quite quickly. If you can get to a lucid dream state reliably from some magical pill i presume a lot of people would use it recreationally.

It could result in a situation where you can stay in a realistic world of your own creation whilst on the drug, something that sounds attractive to me. One major problem could be that people would want to be in this imaginary world all the time, possibly with the risk of letting their psysical body die in the process.

There are no known substances that can actually do this, but the evidence of potential harm is already here: In some cases people were so immersed in their video games that they allowed their otherwise healthy body to die of things like dehydration, exhaustion and such. If you swap the video game for a full on lucid dream that can last forever, i imagine many more people would opt to dream away while 'forgetting' to drink, eat, sleep etc.
 

benmwv

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Have you ever heard of african dream root (silene capensis)? It is probably the closest thing there is to what you are describing. I have used it and can confirm that it works.

I had tried different methods I read about online to induce lucid dreams a few times but never had any luck. I have always had very low dream activity, I might remember one or two a week. I finally decided to order some of this dream root. Basically you take it for 3 or more days and by the 3rd night you get the full effects. I was skeptical but I really wanted to experience a lucid dream. Also I figured there must be a good reason that the tribesmen who originally used it thought they were going into the spirit world when they took the root.

I took 0.25g of finely chopped up root every morning and every night. First night I didnt really notice anything different. Second night seemed like I had vivid dreams but I felt like it was mild and probably placebo effect. On the third night it was undeniable. I had many different extremely vivid, intense dreams. I remembered at least 10 separate dreams the next morning, although it seemed like I must have had 20 or more. Most of the dreams would come to a point where they were so intense that I would wake up. As I was going back to sleep I could feel myself going into a dream while I was still conscious/on the edge of sleep. I had my first ever lucid dream that night and then a little bit later the same night I had another! Unfortunately they were short lived, both times I got too excited when I realized I was in a dream and woke myself up pretty quickly after and didnt get to do much. The effects lasted too. I quit taking it after the third night because it was really intense and I needed to be able to get some good sleep, but I continued to have multiple vivid dreams every night for about a few weeks after. Not nearly as intense as the third night, but I was consistently having 2 or 3 vivid dreams every night which is something I have never experienced before. The effects slowly trailed off and after 2 or 3 months I was back to my normal 1 or 2 dreams a week average.

I have had a few lucid dreams since and I attribute those to this experience 100%. Without having those first two lucid dreams on the root I dont think I would have been able to pick up on it and realize I was in a dream the other times.

One of my friends took it at the same time as me and he had similar effects too.

If you try this I recommend you start it on wednesday or thursday so your third night falls on the weekend, because you will not get very good sleep that night.
 

Vision

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Its right up there in my list. Oh, it definitely works. :beer:
 
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Benm

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There seems to be little information available on -how- these work, as in mechanism of action or even identified active substances in the root.

It seems there is something with somewhat comparable effects from middle america (calea) but the description of that doesn't clarify a mechanism either.

What i find most interesting is reporting upwards of 10 dreams in a single night, which is quite a lot. It is normal to go through a couple of REM stages during a normal night, and one stage can have more than one continous dream, but that rarely ends up with such high numbers.

This makes we wonder what this plant actually does: does it make you dream more, remember dreams better and/or perhaps influence if dreams are lucid or not?

I realize that's 3 parameters in one go, but without sleep phase analysis and such it is not really possible to tell them apart. It also makes me wonder how safe it would be to try these as they seem to interfere with your normal sleep/dream pattern. Especially since some effects lasted for months this could be problematic.

Would you rate the overall experience as a positive one?

Personally i would not be inclined to test something which doesnt even have a known active compound nor mechanism of action, but i do like lucid dreams.
 

benmwv

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There seems to be little information available on -how- these work, as in mechanism of action or even identified active substances in the root.

It seems there is something with somewhat comparable effects from middle america (calea) but the description of that doesn't clarify a mechanism either.

What i find most interesting is reporting upwards of 10 dreams in a single night, which is quite a lot. It is normal to go through a couple of REM stages during a normal night, and one stage can have more than one continous dream, but that rarely ends up with such high numbers.

This makes we wonder what this plant actually does: does it make you dream more, remember dreams better and/or perhaps influence if dreams are lucid or not?

I realize that's 3 parameters in one go, but without sleep phase analysis and such it is not really possible to tell them apart. It also makes me wonder how safe it would be to try these as they seem to interfere with your normal sleep/dream pattern. Especially since some effects lasted for months this could be problematic.

Would you rate the overall experience as a positive one?

Personally i would not be inclined to test something which doesnt even have a known active compound nor mechanism of action, but i do like lucid dreams.
Overall it was a great experience and I definitely recommend it to anyone interested in lucid dreaming!

The only ill effects I had was being a bit tired the day after my 3rd night because I didn't get much quality sleep. I didn't realize how intense the dream root would be and ended up having my 3rd night in the middle of the week. I had a few classes and homework assignments to do that day and that kinda sucked because I was very tired. Next time I do it Ill start on wednesday or thursday.

Also, I experimented with just taking one 0.25g dose instead of the whole 3 day regimen and that did seem to increase my dream activity for the next few days but nothing crazy.

I can say for sure that it makes dreams easier to recall and makes dream much more vivid/detailed. It seems to make me have more dreams too but I cant say for sure because I have no clue how many dreams I have in a night that I dont remember. I believe the detail in the dreams is a big part of why it induces lucid dreams. Both times when I had a lucid dream on it I realized I was in a dream by looking at the details far off in the background and realizing something was quite right. For example in the first one I was in a mall and some of the shops in the background just had sort of colored blobs in the windows (instead of clothes, people, signs, or whatever) which I looked at closely and realized it wasnt a real store. In a normal dream that type of thing would have just been glossed over and never noticed.

Everything I can find about the active compound seems to say it is "triterpenoid saponins" but none of the articles I found went into much detail on that. From what I could find they think this is the active compound because it is what causes the froth when mixed with water and the shamans who originally used the root took it by ingesting the foam. I read a lot about the dream root before I tried it and most every guide was full of hippie psuedo science about how the only way to prepare it is by mixing it with a forked twig and slurping up the foam. Well I figured that was BS so I just chopped up the root, measured out 0.25g doses, swallowed them and it worked just fine.

In all my research I never found anything to suggest it is dangerous and I had no bad effect other than being tired. I think you shoud try it, from what youve said about lucid dreaming I think you would enjoy it. It is an awesome experience like nothing else. Its not like you are getting high from it either, I noticed zero effects through the day.



Ultron, Im wondering if you experiences with dream root are similar to mine? Also what dose and how often do you take it?
 
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Benm

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I don't generally mind things that get me high/drunk/low/stoned etc als long as i know what effect will be, and how long it will last.

The latter has me a bit concerned here as you reported effects months after taking it. In your case they were mild and positive, but i'm not sure that would be the same for everyone. What if it left you having nightmares for months?

Since the mechanism of action is completely unclear so far, i wonder if there is any antidote or kill switch available if it backfires. With something like LSD you could interrupt a bad trip with a decent dose of xanax or similar benzo, but i wonder if that would have any effect here, or perhaps even be dangerous as a combination.

Then again i don't need this to experience a lucid dream - i have them once in a while though little control over where and when. I tend to have them quite often when travellig and sleeping in a moving car/bus. That probably has to do with exhaustion too.

Once in a while i get them with normal sleep as well, but that seems pretty random at best.

The thing that often ends dreams for me is realizing something is not right. This could be something very simple like being uninjured after jumping off a few stories, but also missing details like you describe. One of the more interesting things i found are nested dreams: the ones where you wake up from a dream into another, more or less conviced you are awake since you just woke up from a dream.

Obviously this raises the question of being awake or dreaming right now, but that'd be another matter entirely.
 

Vision

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:thinking: So what does your financial situation look like?
Massively wealthy parents. :tinfoil: Part of the reason why I just keep learning and collecting multiple degrees.:eg:

Ultron, Im wondering if you experiences with dream root are similar to mine? Also what dose and how often do you take it?
Very similar! Most of the time I know I'm dreaming. Controlling your dreams is a great feeling. But something like a nightmare sometimes get pretty damn vivid.
I'd say about the same 250-350mg. Tried 500 once, felt sick but had great dreams.
 
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benmwv

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The latter has me a bit concerned here as you reported effects months after taking it. In your case they were mild and positive, but i'm not sure that would be the same for everyone. What if it left you having nightmares for months?

Since the mechanism of action is completely unclear so far, i wonder if there is any antidote or kill switch available if it backfires. With something like LSD you could interrupt a bad trip with a decent dose of xanax or similar benzo, but i wonder if that would have any effect here, or perhaps even be dangerous as a combination.
I hadn't even thought of this, since I've never really had a problem with bad dreams/nightmares. The increased dream activity I had afterwards was actually the best part IMO.

You raise a very good point though. It seems to me that as long as you are in a good state of mind, stable, and aren't generally having nightmares it wont be an issue. I would probably advise against taking it for anyone who is in a bad place in their life, or is having a lot of nightmares. It really can make the dreams quite intense. I imagine if you had a nightmare on the dream root it would seem more real and be much scarier than normal!

Also there isn't anything that will stop its effects but time as far as I know.
 

Benm

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I don't have nightmares often, but do once in a while. Not sure what causes them at all, seams to be fairly random. Normally not problematic as i awake from them and then know what's going on.

Then again i've had sort of half-lucid nightmares was well when i got injured in a dream while aware that i was dreaming. No full control there to magically fix the injury but enough to know it is a dream and then wake up quite quickly (and sweaty etc) - interesting experience.

I still don't know what this dream root does: Only makes you remember dreams, have more of them, or even influence their content? That added up with no known antidote or treatment makes it a bit risky: a friend or even doctor could probably do little for me if this went south.

With something shorter lasting like LSD you can have a friend administer some benzo's if you have a bad trip, and if it comes to it first aid responders will know what to do and take are of the mess (admitting you or your friend got a bad trip from substance abuse to police or medical responders will not get you in any legal trouble here and is actually encouraged).

I'm sure they are used to a stream of alcohol/cannabis/coke/xtc/lsd/crack cases, but i think they'll go "african what-now root!?" with this ;)
 

InfinitusEquitas

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:bumpit:

Anyone here try flmodafinil? Thinking of giving it a shot, as I don't like how short lived the effect is from adderall. (Which should not be obtained without prescription obviously.)

Also any recommendations on good places to buy from. Modafinil for example, even as generic is just ridiculously expensive in the US.
 

diachi

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:bumpit:

Anyone here try flmodafinil? Thinking of giving it a shot, as I don't like how short lived the effect is from adderall. (Which should not be obtained without prescription obviously.)

Also any recommendations on good places to buy from. Modafinil for example, even as generic is just ridiculously expensive in the US.
Hadn't heard of that one, will need to look for a source, sounds interesting. Need to restock my Nootropics anyway...
 

InfinitusEquitas

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It's a "new" old drug. Currently it can be ordered legally, here in the US, without issues.

With modafinil, I do have a valid prescription, but to fill 30 200mg pills I was given a price of $870 or $38 per pill... idk why per pill is more, but either way that's far too much for a generic that has been around for decades.

Took a 50-60mg dose this morning, just about 5 hours ago. As of right now I'm quite happy with the effects. Have not had any caffeine, or adderall which I usually take, and I am a little low on sleep, 6.5 hours, which is enough, but not perfect.

I'm not a fan of the side effects of ritalin or adderall, more so of the ritalin. There's also a new formulation called evekeo, which is in effect, imo, exactly the same as adderall, with slightly slower initial effect.
 




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