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The Nootropics Thread

InfinitusEquitas

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Then there is the question of whether utilizing drugs to enhance once's performance, or mood, is even an issue, where it does not affect one's ability to be productive. Where a person can no longer manage their life effectively, recognizes this, but still cannot or does not want to quit... an overdose is likely not far off.

What Vietnam has shown us, being as far as I know the largest documented case of addition to a hard drug, is basically that out of 1,000 only 5-10 people become addicts that cannot quit, at least not without oversight.

The takeaway from that to me, is that the chance of severe addiction is under 1%. And that's for heroin, arguably the most addictive street drug there is to most.

Discontinuing my use of flmodafinil for a bit, as I have a developed a low grade persistent headache on waking up in the morning. That could be a question of dosage and timing, so I'll come back to it later.

@Andrew - One of the symptoms I experienced when I went without an SSRI abruptly was fairly severe weakness, but it was gone next day, after I got home, took a dose immediately, and resumed regular dosage next day.
 
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paul1598419

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Then there is the question of whether utilizing drugs to enhance once's performance, or mood, is even an issue, where it does not affect one's ability to be productive. Where a person can no longer manage their life effectively, recognizes this, but still cannot or does not want to quit... an overdose is likely not far off.

What Vietnam has shown us, being as far as I know the largest documented case of addition to a hard drug, is basically that out of 1,000 only 5-10 people become addicts that cannot quit, at least not without oversight.

The takeaway from that to me, is that the chance of severe addiction is under 1%. And that's for heroin, arguably the most addictive street drug there is to most.
I think that this is overly optimistic. The people in Vietnam were an exceptional group. I knew many of these people and they were using to escape, what seemed to them at the time, certain death. People in a less severe situation will not have the relief of noticing for the first time that they are not going to die soon. Statistically, persons who use morphine daily for a month are 70% likely to become habituated, while that number climbs to 100% for heroin.
 

InfinitusEquitas

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That's an interesting point, but escaping reality is exactly what most addicts use heroin for. I'm sure for many, despite surviving the war the future was still quite uncertain, and not very rose colored either.
 

paul1598419

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You have to understand the mind set of people deployed to South East Asia at that time. Their world might not have been rose colored, but it was a far different place than certain death, or at least the impression that certain death was imminent. In this light, people would certainly be in a situation where leaving this behind was easier than others who were never in their situation. Many people use heroin the first time not to escape anything at all, but to experience a feeling of overwhelming joy and vivid dreams unlike anything they had experienced before. Some are able to limit their use to weekends and never become habituated. Others, not so much. It is only when the sickness of withdrawal is imminent, that people use the drug to escape that awful feeling. I don't think most people that use heroin are doing it to escape their situations in life. At least it didn't used to be that way. I doubt it has changed much either. It is justification used by people who really don't know that users use to escape reality.
 

Benm

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Addiction, and breaking free of it, can be coupled by a change in surroundings.

People receiving morphine in hospital are a decent example of this, even if they do so for quite some time. Once dismissed from hospital and sent home with non-opiod pain medication very few of them become addicted. This is mostly valid outside of the US where opiod/opiate painkillers are very rarely prescribed outside of hospitals, and mostly administered IV when in hospital.

The combination of surroundings and cessation can also apply to things like nicotine, which is highly addictive though the withdrawal symtoms are not dangerous per se. Quite a lot of people smoke only when going out, only on holidays, or something similar, and seem to have litle problem stopping when they return home.

When it comes to nootropics there is little indication that they are very addictive. Perhaps you'll crave them like coffee in the morning, but you'll probably not crave them enough to the point where you would rob someone or do something otherwise idiotic to obtain them.

That said it could be different for every substance, and some could be very addictive. For modafinil this seems not be the case, but new substances are rolled out quickly and there surely could be some bad ones among them.
 

Immo1282

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I'm looking to lose weight and stumbled upon a list of some nice nootropics: https://nootrodelic.com/nootropics/ . Not sure what I can say about Phenibut, though.. many people seem to vouch for it for fitness...
Creating an account to post on an off-topic thread that's been dead for nearly two years??

If you're interested in lasers, by all means stick around - but there's got to be better places on the internet to talk about supplements...
 

Andrew124C41

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Back in the early nineties I first learned about nootropics when I read Smart Drugs Dr. Ward Deen. I met Ward when I became a member of the American College for the Advancement of Medicine. He introduced me to Steve Fowkes Director of the no longer extant Cognitive Enhancement Institute, CERI
which I became a part of.

I have had almost 20 years of experience with these agents. My approach to medicine has, with full informed consent,. been emperic. I also served as medical services director for the Life Extension Foundation. I believe patients have the right to take vitamins and supplements, as well as other agents that have not gone through clinical trials so long as they understand the risks (if known,) and that they are their own lab rat. The same applies to off lablel use of medications.

While I don't advocate anabolic steroids, since body builders are going to take them anyway, I have tried to offer advice on certain forums to inform them. For instance, most do not know when taking tes, that the level of estradiol must be kept in very narrow range...20 to 30...not easy to do. This observation was not considered in the study suggesting increased CV deaths in men taking tes replacement tx.

So, the bottom line is that N do have promise and many do work... but understand exactly what you are doing.

The CERI Archives are a great source. Fowkes is not a physician, but he is a brilliant guy who knows more about certain aspects of medicine than many physicians. I cannot overemphasize CERI as a source Information. Ward Deen has a medical practice in TX. I do not know if he does phone consults. Fowkes used to, but do not know if he still does.
(I posted this FYI...Please, no questions.. The info is out there.
 




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