Old 02-19-2018, 03:53 PM #161
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

600mw’s plus of white, gotta be a sight to see. Divergence doesn’t look that bad at all. Programmable, also would be so awesome. Starting to count my penny’s again. Drum roll if you please! Waiting waiting, waiting, waiting.


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Old 02-19-2018, 04:49 PM #162
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

I'd like the red channel a little more powerful, and I'd like it if turning the red knob wouldn't turn the green knob sightly. Based on what I've seen from the YouTube videos.

Other than that, you guys are offering enough to make me a happy camper
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:06 PM #163
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMc View Post
600mw’s plus of white, gotta be a sight to see. Divergence doesn’t look that bad at all. Programmable, also would be so awesome. Starting to count my penny’s again. Drum roll if you please! Waiting waiting, waiting, waiting.
Definitely. Def: LPF mee too campaign - by adding yourself you want it and reserve a piece for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZRaffleticket View Post
I'd like the red channel a little more powerful, and I'd like it if turning the red knob wouldn't turn the green knob sightly. Based on what I've seen from the YouTube videos.

Other than that, you guys are offering enough to make me a happy camper
That control ring issue must be prototype matter only, final product should be of a great precision as Sanwu's standard is known for.

And if Sanwu makes it modular you could choose your laser mix. I would even put more exotic wavelengths in my second host like this. There can be endless options to fullfil your desire for multicolor laser. Just how Sanwu will approach it.

That would be really laserpainter's wet dream if I could set various colorspaces lasers (at least 3 lasers are needed - two just intersect it as line, but 3 define flat surface - much more color combinations).

Edit:




Source: Wiki - see more under click on pic
Note: That black line in Kelvins is black body radiation spectre (linked relevant article for more).


Here you can define your colorspace (click for definition).

Edit 2: After seeing my post with the first edit, I realized a potential if Sanwu made the laser modular (and friendly to custom builds). The potential of such a complex solution is endless. I think I'm not the only one having "that" kind of dreams here now.

That would be competing with option of garage build at least for me (working on so many projects - maybe in the future). I can imagine even web app with "design and we built your multicolour laser" feature. With reputable company that would be competetive advantage. And that laser uses.. Well... I'll just shut up for a while...

Edit 3: By modular I mean - imagine it as Lego. Heatsink for various diodes up to max. power, optic prisms with coatings for custom wavelength selection. Smart and easy alignment mechanism and many accessories, host parts etc. You could build lasers on demand as it is all just assembly according to some checklist in practice. And the creativity of people here is endless... So...
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:37 PM #164
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Since you're open to suggestions here are mine:
-Make it possible to adjust alignment in case it shifts, preferrably without having to resort to brute force
-Lower the blue power and increase the red. In keeping with the ~600mW target I'd suggest R:250/G:120/B:250
-Use only single mode diodes (I think this is already the case but doesn't hurt to ask...)
-Make it not too expensive
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:03 PM #165
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

You can only test the divergence in the far field. So far, all we've seen is a closeup of the beam exiting the lens. Of course it will look good there. What does it look like at 20 feet?
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:30 PM #166
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Good point Paul and I am in agreement with Atomicrox, there needs to be an easy way to get at the adjustments to alighn the mirrors, if they need it.

As far as color balance, you can do that on the fly with the control rings, in my view limiting the power output of one or more colors to keep the white color balance better isn’t the way to go, I don’t want the max power out reduced to keep a perfect color balance when the controls are turned all the way up.

Perhaps there can be a digital control setting to make a well balanced white, but I don’t want the manual controls limited. Besides, not everyones idea of a perfect color mix to make white is the same, I like it biased a little towards blue.

I’m wondering if this can be made so mirror adjustment isn’t later neccessary, I’ve seen mirrors mounted on solder pads to make the adjustment perminent in medical lasers, maybe these can be built that way?
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Divergence to spot size calc: - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which expands to be ~very~ roughly ~10% the diameter of the moon or sun at their distances.

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Old 02-20-2018, 12:59 AM #167
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

I'm mainly concerned with two factors. Far field divergence and price. If it has to be 500 mW, I would like to see the red and blue to be close to equal, otherwise white will be somewhere far below the maximum power. If white can only be accomplished at 300 mW, that is close enough.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:04 AM #168
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

While I don't expect a perfect color with everything cranked up, I would like it close to white. At 500-600mW, white balancing is going to have a far more drastic impact than power / brightness. Plus I'm asking for a stronger red to match the other diodes better

Good call on the realignment options though. I'd be very upset if it got out of alignment and had to send it back.
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Old 02-20-2018, 02:23 AM #169
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
Definitely. Def: LPF mee too campaign - by adding yourself you want it and reserve a piece for you.



That control ring issue must be prototype matter only, final product should be of a great precision as Sanwu's standard is known for.

And if Sanwu makes it modular you could choose your laser mix. I would even put more exotic wavelengths in my second host like this. There can be endless options to fullfil your desire for multicolor laser. Just how Sanwu will approach it.

That would be really laserpainter's wet dream if I could set various colorspaces lasers (at least 3 lasers are needed - two just intersect it as line, but 3 define flat surface - much more color combinations).

Edit:




Source: Wiki - see more under click on pic
Note: That black line in Kelvins is black body radiation spectre (linked relevant article for more).


Here you can define your colorspace (click for definition).

Edit 2: After seeing my post with the first edit, I realized a potential if Sanwu made the laser modular (and friendly to custom builds). The potential of such a complex solution is endless. I think I'm not the only one having "that" kind of dreams here now.

That would be competing with option of garage build at least for me (working on so many projects - maybe in the future). I can imagine even web app with "design and we built your multicolour laser" feature. With reputable company that would be competetive advantage. And that laser uses.. Well... I'll just shut up for a while...

Edit 3: By modular I mean - imagine it as Lego. Heatsink for various diodes up to max. power, optic prisms with coatings for custom wavelength selection. Smart and easy alignment mechanism and many accessories, host parts etc. You could build lasers on demand as it is all just assembly according to some checklist in practice. And the creativity of people here is endless... So...
Man the more I read your posts Radim the more my mind just wonders about this build. So much promise.
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:42 PM #170
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

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Originally Posted by BobMc View Post
Man the more I read your posts Radim the more my mind just wonders about this build. So much promise.
Yeah, finally some of the reputable companies could get this market. Especially nowadays, in times when kids on elementary schools can build and program robots from scratch. Cheap and powerful electronics, so many complex parts (ICs, microcontrollers, microcomputers, displays, steppers, intuitive IDEs...). We are living in fascinating time of economics based on social networks, apps and customized solutions... Those who will build their business model on these trends and where it is not present already, have nice chance to be the best IMO. And Sanwu has significant advantage by asking here for ideas and developing their product with kind of cooperation with LPF.

I'm not speaking about on request adjustments (all reputable companies do that AFAIK - Jet Lasers even offered me some special built as I mentioned in my review of 473 nm), this is another approach based on demand solutions (fast, just assembly is done if all parts are in stock). If this business model is designed in smart way (modular design - parts are ready and usable for various options, checklisted assembly according to customer order right from the order system - no extra handling, no extra thinking, etc.). Of course there might be special requests for something specific, but these cases are being solved now as well. And Sanwu already does some custom lens selection, adjustments etc. Also other companies offer various switches, extension tubes, tail caps etc. Some expertise is already there, why not to take it to the next level?

That's why I'm curious how it will develop... Lasers are the future, they absolutely have to develop and find new uses of this awesome technology we all here love (at least I do ). We are entering in the Laser Age IMO...
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Old 02-20-2018, 05:33 PM #171
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Your lips to Sanwu’s ear Radim! You are so right about Santa’s quality. I just love the feel of their builds in the hand, large or small, just so solid feeling. I would agree they have a chance to start something here that could be great for the customers and profitable for them. As mentioned before so promising.
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:55 AM #172
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Stop over hyping this product or Sanwu will charge a fortune for it.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:49 AM #173
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMc View Post
Your lips to Sanwu’s ear Radim! You are so right about Santa’s quality. I just love the feel of their builds in the hand, large or small, just so solid feeling. I would agree they have a chance to start something here that could be great for the customers and profitable for them. As mentioned before so promising.
OMLG (Oh My Laserpainter's God), I'm looking forward like a kid for Christmas.

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Originally Posted by Ultracrepidarian View Post
Stop over hyping this product or Sanwu will charge a fortune for it.
Do not worry in case of modular structure business model the price is mostly dependend on components you select - from low cost to super hyper laser with custom build with DPSS modules and precise optics costing 1000+ bucks. The point is to inspire Sanwu to complex approach to this product (and maybe into entire portfolio of products they offer).

As we can see China based companies are not anymore cheap manufacturers of mass produced stuff (at least few years to decade or so), now we have precise complex products at quite a low cost and they improve everyday. They have to, since other lower developed countries are pushing the competition higher and produce similar stuff, human rights and enviromental organisations tend to require better working and environmental conditions, so they have to deal with that if they want to sustain enormous growth. The better products designed and manufactured by smart way with as low effort as possible can help out. And new technology and sustaining trends adaptation is the key IMO.

BTW: Have you noticed China's willingness for foreign investments? They put their capital abroad at highest rates, since they are scared from decline of their economics and loosing of local currency. At least in my country they are buying everything (companies, soccer clubs,...) and at extremely high prices.

Complexity management is the way and Sanwu is at least step forward with this laser and approach. They can make whole new demand by creating inovative supply. Just influence of LPF (adaptation of LPF made intangible asset for them with potential to turn it into cash) to laser hobby is incredible, why not to get some profit on this and do WIN-WIN-WIN (producer-customer-hobby) situation? It is easier than it looks to be... Just about approach and trying new ways and evolve those solutions, which are of highest potential.

Really exciting world we live in...

Since I spent fortune on Opto's RPL II, I think my "vulnerability" to invest my hard earned money in my laser collection is much higher than to invest in anything else - I like to say: "I'm investing into art". Yes that is true, but you know, there is a lot of "buts" rising in my head... Still better than to say: "I spent ($)$,$$$ in lasers already." I could be easily put people thinking I'm crazy for spending this money for just "fancy flashlights".
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Current collection:
405 nm | 500 mW | Wicked Lasers Lunar
445 nm | 3.5 W | Wicked Lasers Arctic
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532 nm | 100 mW | Wicked Lasers Evo
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LPF thread: Radim's Laserpainting Art, Complexity Philosophy and The Surreal World
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:33 PM #174
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracrepidarian View Post
Stop over hyping this product or Sanwu will charge a fortune for it.
A very wise point, Ultra, but the horse probably left this barn a long time ago. However, it will take a lot more people than LPF members who've been lusting for the RGB for Sanwu to profit from the R&D they've invested. We can only hope that its sales price will be consistent with their other products. Take Care.

-cd
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:10 PM #175
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdoc View Post
A very wise point, Ultra, but the horse probably left this barn a long time ago. However, it will take a lot more people than LPF members who've been lusting for the RGB for Sanwu to profit from the R&D they've invested. We can only hope that its sales price will be consistent with their other products. Take Care.

-cd
True. Once they decided to develop RGB and asked LPF for ideas, we should treat that and express our wishes. Better lasers, more uses, more new ideas being realized...

It all depends on Sanwu's approach. Definitely they should keep below 500 bucks IMO (for this RGB as presented so far). I'm not sure if for quality product they could ask less than 300 bucks. Maybe lower power.

Still final product of Sanwu's standard of such a complexity piece is not easy, but managable to get for reasonable price. OK and what's more? How to get more from this market? I say participate on market, be active with customers, deal with individual wishes (yes, extra money here) and behave like complex adaptive organism in economics. Make the demand by awesome supply - simple, but smart enough to deliver endless options.

And noone is saying to do it now and in large scale. Do a pilot, try it, let the ideas evolve and keep those being sucessfull and with potential. Behave in the way of "designed evolution". Than you can make only small errors with value in learning from them and improve and you won't suffer from large negative impact of the errors made. Behind (almost) any successful business now you can find inovative ideas and often creating new market by supply of that product (people were not aware they wanted it untill it started to exist).

Laser hobby is still not common, however there is a potential as lasers appear everywhere nowadays. For Sanwu LPF is very important segment IMO, as well as for DL, JL and others... Competition is here somehow, but not that strong IMO (not speaking about junk lasers now). Each of the companies is foccused on slightly different lasers portfolio. They overlap, but are not the same. Many companies left portable business recently (CNI, Sky Lasers/LasersBTB,...). Wicked Lasers are still kind of static in portables (yeah, I do not think they are bad lasers), they focus more on the LaserDock. So, there is a hunger for replacement.

And what's more - our collections grow, lasers live and die, there are custom builds of awesome developement... So many ways to inspire and search for business opportunity.
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"Lasers are s3xy."
"That feeling when you see colours as their wavelengths."
"Laserpainting is a drug. Do not try it."
"If you do not feel and experience the magic, you cannot become the master of wizardry."


Current collection:
405 nm | 500 mW | Wicked Lasers Lunar
445 nm | 3.5 W | Wicked Lasers Arctic
473 nm | 100 mW | Jet Lasers PL-E Pro
520 nm | 1 W | Wicked Lasers Krypton
532 nm | 100 mW | Wicked Lasers Evo
532 nm | 800 mW | Sky Lasers PL

532 nm | 1.4+ W | Optotronics RPL-II
589 nm | 50 mW | Dragon Lasers Spartan
635 nm | 750 mW | Wicked Lasers Inferno
1 W RGB projector
(+ some laser pointers)

Laserpainting art:
LPF thread: Radim's Laserpainting Art, Complexity Philosophy and The Surreal World
Latest artwork: TaoLiim v3.0.0 is in Progress
New TaoLiim 2 - Holography (Free Download of my book)

New card: Quantum Mechanics

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Old 02-21-2018, 08:51 PM #176
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Default Re: Guess our new products! - Sanwu Lasers

^ Having torn apart a WL Nano I got second-hand (still waiting for the sharp 488's to throw into it), I was extremely disappointed to see a CV driver attached to the diode. Only thing I like about their stuff is the nice looking host.

That said, as part of the "just wait two weeks" crowd with the arctics when they first showed up -- Which mind you took about 2 months -- they have eternally lost my business with no hope to get it back. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. I should also mention the first one they sent me died, took another 6 weeks to send a replacement, where the tailcap threads stripped to oblivion. Held it together with rubber bands until that one died too. Nah. Wicked is dead to me.

/rant



And yeah, I think for now it's a good idea to take a step back and see what Podo and the guys at Sanwu have to say to our suggestions. There are a few pages for them to look through and see what they can offer. In the end, I think it's safe to say first and foremost we care about the quality Sanwu has always offered.
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