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ElectricPlasma

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That riot looked hectic (and even that's an understatement). The amount of conflict in some countries never ceases to widen my eyes and only hope for the best, I couldn't even begin to imagine something like that happening in my city.

And with the US election I sure can say I'm proud to be a Canadian and not be a part of that mess, Trump is a dangerous man and Hilary doesn't seem to be much better:eek:
 



trencheel303

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I am with RedCowboy on this one all the way. Actually, this has been going on for a long time. I don't know if anyone has seen the recent BBC documentary basically using the US and Russian ex-pats to paint Putin as a Kleptocrat along with his cronies who are the inner circle he brought with him from St. Petersburg. Much of it is from the recent book Putin's Kleptocracy y Dawisha. He is also accused by the British of ordering Litvinenko's assassination. As for Putin's wealth, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I don't think he had Litvenko killed.

The US government drive against Russia is in part fueled by the Zionist agenda in my opinion. It is also a culture war between the declining morality of the west and the Russia's Orthodoxy. The recent historical meeting of the Pope and the Russian Patriarch in Cuba is no coincidence, that is they did not meet in Europe or the US.

The US has been pushing its democratization agenda and projection of military power with terrible results for far too long. The Mordad Coup against Moseddegh gave us the Shah and ruined our relationship with Iran giving us what we have now. Why? The Anglo-American interest in their oil. Iraq was better off with Hussein. Perhaps some countries simply need a dictator; end of story. It is not our business. Afghanistan is corrupt and always will be. Opium crops can't be beet compared to any other. Libya was actually doing pretty well under its former leader: free electricity, free farmland for farmers, the world's largest irrigation project, 50% car subsidy by the government when you purchase a car, the country had no external debt, because of Gaddafi 87% of Libyans are literate (25% before him,) and a whole lot more. The reason he was literally torn apart however was because the West did not like his proposal for a single African currency. He was a very smart guy: “They want to do to Libya what they did to Iraq and what they are itching to do to Iran. They want to take back the oil, which was nationalized by these country’s revolutions. They want to re-establish military bases that were shut down by the revolutions and to install client regimes that will subordinate the country’s wealth and labor to imperialist corporate interests. All else is lies and deception.” All the US did by its involvement in Syria was to create ISIS. (The US also armed the Ukrainian Stepon Bandera styled fascist nationalists against the Russians which to me is inconceivable.

Putin spoke about much of this at the last Valdai club meeting. Sadly, you never see an American leader there because we don't have one intelligent enough to know what to say. Putin has done an absolutely amazing job bringing Russia out of the problems it had when the Soviet Union broke apart. The US government now sees Russia as a threat rather than the powerful ally that it should be. Russia's energy sources, that is its exports are something like 50% of its GDP. Unless you are a proponent of the abiotic genesis of oil, then it is a finite resource and you are an adherent to the concept of peak oil. (You would think shale grows on trees with all the clamor about US energy independence. It only buys us time.) If it is the later, gas prices should if anything be increasing, or at the least leveling out. The reason that is not the case is because the US has manipulated oil prices in an attempt to strangle Russia.

This is a very dangerous game and sadly US citizens are totally unaware that it is going on. IMO if this continues it could force Russia's hand. Russia has absolutely no interest in war and never has. However, as a result of what the west has been doing, its military is growing. Their army eats ground glass for breakfast. Women can be in non-combat roles. (In Russia, men are men and women are women like it was once upon a time in the US before we became "a nation of wimps." ever read the 80s book Real Men Don't Eat Quiche?) Let's just say I would not want to see us go to war against a combined Russian/Chinese coalition.

Getting back to the Zionist agenda. It is very simple. Prior to the British making a mess of things, those Jews who lived in what was then Palestine, lived among Arabs in harmony. There were no problems. According to the Bible, the Jews were banished from Israel. However, the Zionist political movement is ultimately what brought them back to what is really a secular state. This was done by literally removing or perhaps a better word is expelling people from their homes, to wit, the Arabs that were living there who now call themselves Palestinians. They were not paid for there property. So, there are families living in Gaza and the West Bank who can see their homes, their property on the other side of a wall or fence, which is now inhabited by Israelis.

The Israelis don't want to lose their claim to land that does not belong to them. They don't like Assad that is for certain because he is a neighbor who knows the truth and is on the side of the Palestinians and supports Hezbola. So, the Jewish/Zionist lobby, one that controls more of US industry than most people know, is pushing the US to oust Assad. (The Zionists control the media by the way.)

So, there it is.
Quoting (and saving) this because it's the best thing I've read in a long time. :wave:
 

diachi

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Quoting (and saving) this because it's the best thing I've read in a long time. :wave:

This one I saw on Reddit yesterday is pretty good, at least, IMO.

Its ridiculous if you only look at the surface. The real reason? Influence/power.
SHORT VERSION:
Russia supplies gas/oil to Europe. Russia has cut/reduce supplies to Europe before. Having the power of resource over an entire continent is massive! Western power wants to butt in. Calls Saudi to help start trouble so they have an excuse to be in Middle East(9/11). America + Saudi trains/supplies/fund terrorist groups. Its known.
SA in 2009 proposed a pipeline through Syria/Turkey to reach Europe. Assad (who is backed by Russia) said no. Understand why America won't just leave middle east after Iraq?
US sanctions Russia. SA decides to pump more oil to lower price and starve Russian output. China steps in and agrees to a massive deal between Russia for gas/oil. Its just a power struggle and we are in the middle of this whole mess.
A lot of ordinary folks don't actually understand that oil played a HUGE role in ww1 + ww2 and will continue to do so. One of the reasons Hitler decided to attack Russia was to take resource to fuel his army which was running near empty during WW2.
MAP RUSSIAN PIPELINES: http://burycoal.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/russian-oil-gas-pipeline.png
IT IS NOT ABOUT IMMIGRATION which they are pushing for. You notice post 9/11 every damn problem, they point to immigrants? It is to make normal people bicker and not look at the real damn reason. Its sad because we are told lies by our own goverment which should serve the common people. But now they serve the corporations! and we go to war for these suckers!
2008 caused the financial crises, America printed 3+ trillion (quantitive easing). Most of that money went to the rich. Bail out and Quantitive easing failed so they looked at immigrants to blame. This world is a shit show!
 

paul1598419

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That quote from Reddit lost me when it went off course with the Germans attacking Russia during WW II. Russia at that time had no large oil of gas reserves and Hitler invaded Russia because he was over confident with his earlier successes in just taking Poland and his push into western Europe. He was nuts. He actually believed the German people were superior and would therefore succeed. There have been many credible books written about the cause and effects of WW II without trying now to rewrite the history.
 

diachi

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That quote from Reddit lost me when it went off course with the Germans attacking Russia during WW II. Russia at that time had no large oil of gas reserves and Hitler invaded Russia because he was over confident with his earlier successes in just taking Poland and his push into western Europe. He was nuts. He actually believed the German people were superior and would therefore succeed. There have been many credible books written about the cause and effects of WW II without trying now to rewrite the history.

Except you're wrong, at least partially...

Operation Edelweiss (German: Edelweiß), named after the mountain flower, was a German plan to gain control over the Caucasus and capture the oil fields of Baku during the Soviet-German War. The operation was authorised by Hitler on 23 July 1942. The main forces included Army Group A commanded by Wilhelm List, 1st Panzer Army (Ewald von Kleist), 4th Panzer Army (Colonel-General Hermann Hoth), 17th Army (Colonel-General Richard Ruoff), part of the Luftflotte 4 (Generalfeldmarschall Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen) and the 3rd Romanian Army (General Petre Dumitrescu). Army Group A was supported to the east by Army Group B commanded by Fedor von Bock and by the remaining 4th Air Fleet aircraft (1,000 aircraft in all). The land forces, accompanied by 15,000 oil industry workers, included 167,000 troopers, 4,540 guns and 1,130 tanks.
In May the Germans defeated Soviet offensives in the Kerch Peninsula and at Kharkov,[187] and then launched their main summer offensive against southern Russia in June 1942, to seize the oil fields of the Caucasus
In fact, if you do a quick search you'll see oil was a key target by just about all sides involved in WWII.
 
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paul1598419

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I know the oil was in short supply during WW II, but it doesn't explain Hitler's move into St. Petersburg and the massive attacks against the Russians far north of the Caucasus.
 

RedCowboy

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Understand that Russia sells arms just like we do, but they sell "Monkey" versions without the sophisticated electronics.

Still we are headed for a fight where we may well be on 2 fronts, much like Germanys mistake.

China will have no problem with Terrorist, they will eradicate them from their homeland, but we are going to fight terrorism, fight communism, and take in people who could radicalize.

All this after we just doubled our debt of which the interest consumes 6% of our spending that is in excess of our GDP and give away free college and medical care. That's 6% at our near zero interest rates, and we are going to spend even more and fight 2 wars, one against communist and one against terrorist.

Man our plate is full, well past full.

What do you bet these tanks get used against American soldiers in the time ahead?

Do you ever feel like we are just



 
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Benm

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Russia supplies gas/oil to Europe. Russia has cut/reduce supplies to Europe before. Having the power of resource over an entire continent is massive! Western power wants to butt in. Calls Saudi to help start trouble so they have an excuse to be in Middle East(9/11). America + Saudi trains/supplies/fund terrorist groups. Its known.
That situation as changed a bit by now. Europe does import quite a bit of natural gas from Russia, but there are vast reserves of liquified gas as well as other supply routes.

These other supplies include both european domestic gas fields as well as import of liquified methane from, mostly, Qatar. In the netherlands we have sizeable natural gas reserves available but extracting that gas causes minor earthquakes so that process was reduced. The equipment is still there though and could be brought to full speed if foreign supply was completely cut off for some reason. We used to be net-exporters of natural gas serving countries like belgium.

As for the comparison with WW2: this cannot be made that simply. Nazi germany ran out of liquid fuels frequently. They did not have the installations to maintain gas to liquid fuel processes, mostly because such factories are very large and very vulnerable to fires caused by enemy bombardment. This situation is now very different as such plants can be operated safely converting natural gas to gasoline/diesel like fuels if need be.

Currently there is no need at all though, all land based oil storage facilities are filled to the brim due to the low oil prices, and even today there are dozens of tanker ships full of oil waiting at sea for prices to increase so they can offload their content with some profit (or lower loss even). Some of those ships stay in the ocean for months just waiting to unload their cargo at an acceptable price.
 

RedCowboy

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Well here we go, the Strike in Syria is on.

Will this be the start of another extended campaign, will Russia fire back, somehow I don't feel good about this one.

Something I can't get over is how Trump was talking about getting out of Syria, then a chemical attack by Assad just days later....spidey senses are tingling.
 
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diachi

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Doesn't smell right to me either. Smells like another Saddam WMDs story to me. Assad was winning, the US was withdrawing, they were negotiating with the rebels and then they decide that now is the time to attack civilians with chemical weapons? Not to mention Russia said a month ago that the west was planning to stage a false flag chemical attack as a reason to launch an attack against Syria.

Hopefully this one strike is all they'll launch and Russia will just make a big fuss at the UN about it.
Edit: From Alaskan; damn it, I accidentally screwed up your post diachi, I was responding to your post and accidentally edited it without seeing I didn't click quote, I clicked edit. I can't fix what I took out, can you?
 
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Encap

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It was just a multinational slap on the wrist for Syria---just a warning mostly--very limited
 

CurtisOliver

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It was agreed to be a limited attack, but it may of been a step too far too soon. As for diachi’s point, If the UK and France has just been dragged into another Iraq like scenario then there will be a lot of anger from the allied side too. Many here haven’t forgiven Bush or Blair for their actions, and some are still trying to get Blair arrested for war crimes. I don’t like the fact that our three nations have acted without concrete evidence regarding chemical weapons, and despite warnings from Russia about starting a war.
 
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Alaskan

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Here's what I wanted to post and accidentally edited diachi's, apologies dude, my bad:

As soon as I heard this I thought BS, this is a red flag operation against Assad, I don't believe it, and they march forward with this as if it was his doing, I will say it again, I doubt this very much, likely a CIA operation. If this did indeed come from his military, someone inside was bribed or black mailed by an outside group to use chem weapons without Assad knowing about it is the worst case I can think of inside his command for why this happened. There are a thousand ways to skin a cat and with enough money behind you, anything is possible.
 
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