The history of the illuminati

[Shakenawake]

sorry for DP. but I felt like responding to Encap as well.

NWO and illuminati are a joke played upon people by conspiracy cons to make money with I know something you don't know BS.

Interestingly, conspiracy theory fanatics present all the symptoms of religious fanatics. Here are some of them:
1.A conspiracy theorist has "seen the light", so to speak. That is, he has seen the Truth, which the majority of other people haven't.

2.A conspiracy theorist has the absolute, irrefutable, unshakable CONVICTION that he knows the Truth, only the Truth, and nothing but the Truth. There's absolutely no doubt in his mind that what he believes is the Truth.

3.The conspiracy theorist will say things like "there's NO WAY these photos are not faked" and "there's NO WAY this is something else than controlled demolition", etc. He is absolutely sure and certain at all possible levels that he knows the truth.

4.There's absolutely nothing you can say that will convince the conspiracy theorist otherwise. You can refute every single claim he makes to absolute smithereens with hard scientific easy-to-understand facts, and that will not move his conviction even a fraction of an inch. Not even a shadow of a doubt will cross his mind at any point.

5.The doctrine which the conspiracy theorist believes is based on a series of books, web pages and "documentaries" made by some other conspiracy theorists (which are completely akin to prophets), and every single word in these works is considered the absolute Truth by the conspiracy theorist. Every single claim, no matter how small or how ridiculous, is the absolute Truth. Not a single claim is considered dubious or unimportant.

6.The conspiracy theorist has the irresistible urge to spread the Truth to others, the lost lambs who wander in darkness and still don't know the Truth, who haven't seen the light, and who must be converted.

7. Spreading the Truth is in no way limited to the Internet. Like the most vocal religious movements, also conspiracy theorists will organize protest marches and parades, where they will disturb the peace of completely unrelated events, they will get into TV shows to spread their convictions, they will preach to individuals at their workplaces and other places, etc, etc.

8.Trying to discuss critically the views of the conspiracy theorist will always cause a tirade of contempt and arrogant religious mongering. Trying to rationally argue against any of the claims of the conspiracy theorist is a completely futile endeavor. There's just no convincing the conspiracy theorist.

Like all religions, conspiracy theorists also have their big enemies. The Government is the enemy number one. The scientifical community is just an evil organization under the control of the Government, part of the system, and thus cannot be trusted.
Like some religions, also conspiracy theorists will twist and bend science for their own purposes, and quote science and writings of scientists completely out of context, changing the original meaning, to support their claims. When actual scientists show how the "science" of the conspiracy theorists is completely flawed, the conspiracy theorists will discredit the scientists because they are just part of the system.
Basically any scientist who opposes their views is delusional, incompetent and part of the system and thus not to be trusted, while any scientist (or anyone claiming to be a scientist) who agrees with the conspiracy theory is immediately credible and competent, and will be much quoted.

1. sure, it's normal to want to share truth with uninformed, thus bringing up the standard of humanity. obviously the problem arises when person 1's "truth" is incorrect (cough cough religion)

2. many seem to feel this way, even myself for a time, but how many that believe the official story behave in the same manner? this is why good theories have a way in which it would be falsifiable. I concede many points I was wrong about, but I have rarely heard the government retract, even when they are caught red handed, and they have been caught red handed many times. I'm talking pre 9/11. I could list a slew of terrible crap that the government does admit to, and source the government's admission, which all predate 9/11, then ask, would you trust this government not to pull something like 9/11? my answer is no, that even if they did not cause it, they allowed it to happen or at least maximized their own benefit from it and used it as an excuse to do what they were already planning. the project for a new american century. In this, bush admin buddies got together (in the clinton days) and said we need to tranform the military to become the new world power, but to get the american people behind it, we will need a catalyzing event, like pearl harbor. the day of/after 9/11 what did Bush say? that we witnessed the pear harbor of our generation. one used to be able to go read the PNAC document directly, but it was taken down, wonder why? Account Suspended

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. just like some who believe the official story will say, "there's NO WAY that many people could keep a secret"

4. I am a perfect example of this not applying with every "conspiracy theorist". I feel the frustration you describe when confronting religious dogma, honestly, all the christian involvement turned me kinda off of the 9/11 truth movement, or at least lots of it's members. I heard lots of 9/11 truthers say the answer to all these woes was, you guessed it, JESUS CHRIST. sorry moving on.

5. I never gave this level of esteem to anyone who's films I watched or books I read, just as I don't think Darwin is a leader of atheism and cringe when I hear (usually creationists) refer to people like me as "Darwinists". Claims should be weighed independently of the person making the claim, and no claim, whether from "conspiracy theorist" or "trusted source", should be free from scrutiny.

6. Kinda like #1

7. Where and when is the best time to inform you about how virtually every aspect of society has been crafted to screw you over or at least convoluted out of it's original form into some adulterated version? I don't make any money BTW

It's true I have a bias against the government. everyone has a their own bias, aint no objective reality to be found anywhere. we all must stuggle to look at evidence that disturbs our current view, and the truth is, people on both sides have a hard time with this, so be more open minded everybody, the mind is like a parachute after all.

more words from the loony bin, here is a grain of salt to go with them

 

[Teej]

I'm sorry, there's just too much presented as facts that just aren't.

There's misinformation...including facts or truths in a lie is a very well know way of disguising the rest of something.

Take a random example of something like "Jet Fuel can't melt steel"...presented as a pivotal point.

Guess what, all you need to do is heat steel enough for it to lose enough strength, and the building will collapse...it happens ALL THE TIME.

I do arson and fire investigations as part of my myriad functions, and, trust me, you can take down a steel supported structure with burning jet fuel.

You don't even NEED jet fuel, burning building materials ALONE can do that.


And, when a building built like that does come down, it CAN pancake progressively, with no "demolition charges" needed.


Also, logically, if you HAD placed demolition charges at each floor to try to do a controlled demolition, and, your plan was to maximize the death and destruction, once you HAD the charges, why risk screwing it up with a PLANE CRASH TOO?

When they tried to demo the place before, WITH charges in the garage level, etc...they didn't ALSO have a fake event to make it look like THAT was the real attack.

So, why make a controlled demo that MINIMIZED the death toll and damage, when the building falling over across the rest of the city, etc, would have been much WORSE?

IE: Why not place the strategically placed "Controlled Demolition" charges so as to make it fall over like a chopped down tree, and take out a much larger area?

And so forth.


The reason is, that there is either a DELIBERATE attempt to dupe people with misinformation, or,a really BAD job of interpreting the evidence....COMBINED with not knowing that they don't know enough TO interpret the evidence.

IE: Either dishonest and/or stupid and don't know it.

Pick one.

 

[Shakenawake]

you make a good point. I am aware fire can make steel framed building collapse under certain circumstances. I actually had researched some of this just prior to seeing this thread, the subject matter is of interest to me, as it should be to everyone who is effected by the event. but remember, the 9/11 commission report and NIST made no mention of the molten steel found, which was later well reported on by even the major news media. they can not say both that the fires were not hot enough to melt the steel AND yet there is lots of molten steel, more than a month later. so right now I'm sifting through all these supposed expainations of how the steel melted because of chemical reactions, or the friction of the falling buildings, spraying water on it made it worse, ect. it's all very frustrating. I have seen footage of Phillip Zelokow denying eyewitness reports of molten steel, though clearly there was molten steel, so that's suspicious to me. whether it was caused by explosives, jet fuel, chemical reactions that water apperently makes worse, or friction from a falling building. the key is to start with evidence and work from there, drawing conclusions from evidence. anyone remember "bush science" start with conclusions then work from there? whatever happened to the computer models that would not fail until the parameters entered in exceeded temperateures that were known to have been there? It could be made up I guess

and who knows. I cant really speculate on the theoretical level of callousness shown by would-be planners of this. would they be diabolical enough to just kill everyone in the towers and many around them but think toppling the building into a neighboring structure it taking it too far? who knows, maybe they partially or fully owned some of the nearby buildings and it was self interest that made them want to not topple the towers into their own property. there is endless speculation, most of it theoretical, in this particular department

so where there explosives in the towers? IDK. I am actually unsure myself, but that point is of little relevance, becuase whether it was a deliberate bombing, or they arranged for/allowed the terrorists to do it, or even if it was out of the blue, the end result has been government abuse, with this event as an excuse. if you believe it was totally out of the blue you must also believe our national defense apperatus to be totally incompetent. hijacked planes as weapons is was hardly an unheard of concept, and the world trade had been bombed once already...

sometimes the path to the truth lies through thick, thory vines, and you forgot your machete at home.

All that said, I am no fan of islam. to all those who were celebrating this event, ****you. the joke seems to largely be on you now any way as it is your villages being drone struck because of it. obviously this is a very, very broad generalization, and does not apply to many people. I am generally displeased with the situation. I have heard that people who go looking for blood usually find it

 

[Livinloud]

Keep calm and ignore conspiracy theories like those of the Illuminati :beer:

Illuminati are all about the triangles

OMG IT IS A REAL THING! How could I be so stupid, look there are triangles EVERYWHERE! ILLUMINATI IS INSANE!!!!

 

[Shakenawake]

on that note, because I'm never too seriouse to take a joke:
http://controversy.wearscience.com/img450/multi.png

 

[Teej]

you make a good point. I am aware fire can make steel framed building collapse under certain circumstances. I actually had researched some of this just prior to seeing this thread, the subject matter is of interest to me, as it should be to everyone who is effected by the event. but remember, the 9/11 commission report and NIST made no mention of the molten steel found, which was later well reported on by even the major news media. they can not say both that the fires were not hot enough to melt the steel AND yet there is lots of molten steel, more than a month later. so right now I'm sifting through all these supposed expainations of how the steel melted because of chemical reactions, or the friction of the falling buildings, spraying water on it made it worse, ect. it's all very frustrating. I have seen footage of Phillip Zelokow denying eyewitness reports of molten steel, though clearly there was molten steel, so that's suspicious to me. whether it was caused by explosives, jet fuel, chemical reactions that water apperently makes worse, or friction from a falling building. the key is to start with evidence and work from there, drawing conclusions from evidence. anyone remember "bush science" start with conclusions then work from there? whatever happened to the computer models that would not fail until the parameters entered in exceeded temperateures that were known to have been there? It could be made up I guess

and who knows. I cant really speculate on the theoretical level of callousness shown by would-be planners of this. would they be diabolical enough to just kill everyone in the towers and many around them but think toppling the building into a neighboring structure it taking it too far? who knows, maybe they partially or fully owned some of the nearby buildings and it was self interest that made them want to not topple the towers into their own property. there is endless speculation, most of it theoretical, in this particular department

so where there explosives in the towers? IDK. I am actually unsure myself, but that point is of little relevance, becuase whether it was a deliberate bombing, or they arranged for/allowed the terrorists to do it, or even if it was out of the blue, the end result has been government abuse, with this event as an excuse. if you believe it was totally out of the blue you must also believe our national defense apperatus to be totally incompetent. hijacked planes as weapons is was hardly an unheard of concept, and the world trade had been bombed once already...

sometimes the path to the truth lies through thick, thory vines, and you forgot your machete at home.

All that said, I am no fan of islam. to all those who were celebrating this event, ****you. the joke seems to largely be on you now any way as it is your villages being drone struck because of it. obviously this is a very, very broad generalization, and does not apply to many people. I am generally displeased with the situation. I have heard that people who go looking for blood usually find it

Its not even wrong....there's nothing there that means anything that is being used to mean something.

Steel can melt if hot enough, and, it can bend and let a building collapse even if it doesn't melt. When the building pancakes, the pressures add heat that further stresses and weakens, and yes, can even melt the steel.

The entire bogus attempt to interpret what was seen is painful to see.

It would be akin to seeing an analysis by a theorist who's pivotal "Fact" was that lasers are only UV.

And They COULD show PROOF of UV lasers....proving their case.

If you knew nothing about lasers, you might be convinced.

If you knew about lasers, and had to listen to radio interviews, and TV shows and movies and documentaries where experts talked about how stuff that depended on laser only being UV....you'd be tearing your hair out wondering what could POSSIBLY be so difficult for these whackos to understand?

And then your friends and random people you meet tell you earnestly about how aliens used laser that had to be UV and that's why blah blah blah...

And you say, no, lasers don't have to be UV, and they'd give you examples to prove otherwise...because their knowledge came from the media they chose to watch/people they associated with, and it supported their world view, and that's that....or, something like "Well, even experts disagree", etc.



Mean while YOU know its ludicrous, and, it just swirls past you like a river of misinformation...and you're barely a rock making a little eddy....as it rushes along, drowning the gullible in their travels.


So, I do fire investigations, etc, and I see what really happens. I do forensic investigations on building failures....I KNOW what they say is absurd and misleading and/or dishonest....but its like knowing lasers don't have to be UV...."Experts disagree on that", and on it goes.


The way the lies are disseminated, it matches the way criminals spread what needs to be spread to make their marks believe what they need them to believe.

When an idea supports someone's world view, they tend to believe it readily, and to be quite skeptical of ideas in conflict with that...its human nature.

The same goes for those who summarily dismiss those who poo poo any conspiracy...both groups have fairly closed minds.

But, when the topics overlap what you know or can logically come to...and, are in conflict, it behooves you to wonder what else is wrong. You need to keep in mind what you DON'T know, which, for me at least is ~ infinitely more than I know.

If you keep an open mind, its more likely that you can filter out the BS, and keep the good stuff.



A closed mind has no flow through it.

 

[Shakenawake]

When an idea supports someone's world view, they tend to believe it readily, and to be quite skeptical of ideas in conflict with that...its human nature.

I was going to mention that, there's an official psychobabble thing for it, here we go:

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All I want is the damn truth, yes I can handle it. as Zach De La Rocha tells us in vietnow,"terror's the product you push, well I'm a truth addict (ah SH** I got a head rush)"

Is all the world jails and churches?

 

[Encap]

Conspiracy theories, are just that. It is a good thing none of them matter.

Conspiracy people exhibit a number of tell-tale characteristics. Almost ubiquitous is the accusation of nefarious intent. After all, people never conspire with benevolent intent (unless planning a surprise party). Conspiracy theories are self-sealing and immune to contrary evidence. Incoming facts ricochet right off the tinfoil hat. Actually, a more accurate metaphor is the classic sci-fi alien that grows stronger when fired upon. Any evidence against the conspiracy is only further proof of just how powerful the conspirators are.

Conspiracy theories often do have a grain of truth in them, as does all psychotic level ideation.

Conspiracy theory is a business like any other.. I guess it's the consumer's responsibility to recognize these scams if they want to avoid falling (and paying) for them. Some are more obvious than others, however, and some are more entertaining than others, too.

In imagination everything is possible---not so in the real world.

 

[Shakenawake]

people don't usually get together in secret to do good things, most people are ok with everybody knowing when they are planning good things, they might even go out of their way to draw attention.

also, I don't like when I see the word "theory"'s meaning belittled. it is just an explanation of a system that accounts for all data and can be used to make the most accurate predictions. theories with more predictive capability are more valuable. only in the common venacular has theory become interchangeable with "any regular-jerk-off's opinion"

this absurdity is highlighted in the statement, "gravity is just a theory."

the best way to avoid being hit by something is to see it coming first

 

[Hislordship]

I see most people don't even believe that a ''conspiracy'' could even exist...

So.. what about the ''Bilderberg group''?

Over a 100 of the most powerfull people on earth including former queen of the netherlands and rockefeller attend this meeting once a year.

Dutch politician Harry van bommel from the SP a socialist party in holland asked question to the government about the bilderberg group many times...

And the answers he got were that it is a private meeting so we don't have to tell you anything....
Yet van bommel found out that most of these meetings are paid for by the tax payers which makes them no private at all... and gives us the right to know what they talk about...

Then the government told him he could get a report of the subjects they talk about but they would not give him a report of the things said and who said them and what dissisions were made during the meeting...

If the 100+ most powerfull people on earth get together in secret guarded by the CIA the israeli mossad the MI5 and local police and they won't even tell you what is going on than that should raise alot of questions...

Also the reason that the media isn't reporting anything about these meetings is because the bosses of every big media corporation attend this meeting and swore to keep it secret.

The questions asked by van bommel were never media news... instead i had to find out about this from a independent interview with van bommel which is uploaded on youtube...

If such a secretive meeting of the most powerfull people alive does not make you think then what will?.....

Also one little fact about this group... they were the ones responsible for the creation of the EU they even came out to admit this many years later so if you think they are just discussing things rather then deciding things then you are dead wrong.

in this video you will see that interview with harry van bommel but sadly it is all in dutch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwgdcW3cJbs

 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

@ Hislordship

Do having these views change your life? If you didn't know or believe any of these things would your day to day be any different?

 

[Hislordship]

I've had times in which i was afraid of the future when i first started reading about these things...

But now i see huge protests starting around the world against the corrupt governments and that gives me hope that perhaps we can overcome corruption...

But other then that it has not changed anything except that i trust media and governments even less then that i already did

 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

What good is being so committed to a belief that results in no action?

 

[Hislordship]

But it does result into action
I am a admin on a chemtrail page and when i have the time i help organize protests.

Also with that page some of the members collected freshy fallen snow and had it tested in a lab..
We found extreme high amounts of heavy metals such as aluminum and barium... also we found radioactive strontium...

Kinda weird to find that in snow don't you think?

 

[Teej]

But it does result into action
I am a admin on a chemtrail page and when i have the time i help organize protests.

Also with that page some of the members collected freshy fallen snow and had it tested in a lab..
We found extreme high amounts of heavy metals such as aluminum and barium... also we found radioactive strontium...

Kinda weird to find that in snow don't you think?

It depends upon the concentrations, etc....as you can find any contaminant, anywhere on the planet, with a sensitive enough test.

What are the extremely high concentrations?

 

[Pi R Squared]

Those are probably due to weather modification activity, but I don't know about the radioactive strontium, that shouldn't be there I don't think.