Selling etiquette and "host ownership"

[tsteele93]

As a relatively new member of the forum, I'm not sure what the etiquette is on selling lasers/kits here on the forum entails.

I think that I can figure out some of the big picture, but it seems like there might be some subtleties that I'm not sure about.

For instance, lets hypothetically say that longtime member RespectedGuy123 has been building lasers/kits for several years on the forum.

Then NewGuy890 comes along and says, "Hey, this looks like fun! I'd like to build some lasers and maybe sell some too!"

Well, searching for hosts is a time consuming and expensive process and a bit of an art form. It is easy to end up with a lot of useless hosts that don't work out for one reason or another. Ordering from China is slow and occasionally difficult. If you don't look at the measurements carefully you can end up with a host that is way smaller or way bigger than you thought. (I know!) when you find a host that is actually sold as a host where you don't have to pay for flashlight guts, that is a nice rarity too!

So NewGuy890 buys some hosts, waits several weeks for them to arrive and maybe has holdups with customs, etc.

During this time, he sees RespectedGuy123 post some lasers for sale. Some of them are in the same hosts he has ordered recently.

Should NewGuy890 just eat these hosts? Is there a "first come, you own the rights to that host" etiquette in place?

What is the general consensus? Was this a problem with C6's at one time? Or guidesman hosts?

I've seen hints of "wire wars" that may have happened in the not so distant past...

Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[cilegray]

If there's a problem with selling comparable builds... I know you won't have issues/problems selling just the bare hosts, if it ever comes to that.

I know exactly what you're talking about and I don't think said person would really have a problem with it, as he usually sells only 1 or a few of each type of build.

Hope he chimes in and gives you the definitive answer tho... Just curious, how much would one of these hosts be if I were to order it from you ? Host + heatsink, bare.

 

[jakeGT]

Nope. Nobody on here has hosts that only they are allowed to use and sell on the forum. If I bang out ten 445 saiks tomorrow and sell them all on the forums, you could post a 445 saik for sale the same day and nobody could say anything about it.

ALTHOUGH some people may get pissed at you if they think they discovered a host and you sell one or something. But that doesn't mean they have any say-so if you can sell it or not.

Honestly dtr, lazeerer, and especially RHD are the ones who pioneer new hosts and usually set the standard or "common hosts" we use around here. Other host types like the c6, guides man, c3, have been around on the forums for years

So to sum up the question, no. People may get mad, but it is a hobbyists forum. Nobody here owns a company that sells completed lasers and has rights to these flashlight modified hosts.

 

[Tman]

USA = open retail marketplace

 

[Trevor]

Well, it's not illegal or even disallowed, per se.

But it can be bad form. For example, I remember jayrob being quite incensed with someone a while back who used his heatsink dimensions to start producing kits of their own. Maglite kits, I think. Jay was frustrated that his "R&D" had been stolen for someone else to profit from.

Producing heatsinks for the same host as someone else can also be a touchy subject.

Personally, it's not a market I want to be involved with.

Trevor

 

[jakeGT]

That was freakin Sparkles and he pumped out 20 mag lights like jays. I feel if somebody did a Maglight build and sold one there would be no problems. And sparkles sold shitty mimics of jays without even asking iirc.

I don't know, if I were to sell a saik 445 right now I would hope not to get flak just because jayrob sells the kits (not fully assembled lasers)

 

[Trevor]

True - completed lasers are definitely treated far differently from kits.

Though... if you start building completed lasers using heatsinks you make using dimensions that someone else came up with, then whoever that "someone else" is might still have an objection.

I dunno. We have a very, very protectionist market here.

Trevor

 

[tsteele93]

I definitely think it would be wrong to buy a build/kit and then copy it! I am talking about stumbling upon the same hosts as other builders. Not stealing their driver designs or heat sink info.

It isn't hard to measure for a heat sink once you have the host though.

 

[tsteele93]

Hope he chimes in and gives you the definitive answer tho... Just curious, how much would one of these hosts be if I were to order it from you ? Host + heatsink, bare.

if you are referring to the stainless build I am working on with the BeCu heat sink, it is a one off. I only ordered one for myself. But I ended up with two of another host that has been sold on here and don't want to get stuck with them.

I'll gladly share where I get any host unless that will make someone mad.

I see both sides. If I find a cool host, I wanna keep it secret and try to sell some builds. On the other hand, if I see a cool host I wanna get one and I'm thinking "why is he keeping the source a secret?"

Lol, it is like everyone who is going slower than you on the interstate is a slow poke. But everyone who is going faster than you on the interstate is a speed demon.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

That was freakin Sparkles and he pumped out 20 mag lights like jays. I feel if somebody did a Maglight build and sold one there would be no problems. And sparkles sold shitty mimics of jays without even asking iirc.

IIRC he also advertised them at a pretty high power, and no duty cycle, so a lot of them ended up crapping out.

 

[Trevor]

I definitely think it would be wrong to buy a build/kit and then copy it! I am talking about stumbling upon the same hosts as other builders. Not stealing their driver designs or heat sink info.

It isn't hard to measure for a heat sink once you have the host though.

Yeah I'd not worry about it then.

Trevor

 

[RyanElectro]

Man the internet is the birthplace of freedom of information. Hopefully we can all keep it that way.

Intellectual property that is posted on the WWW by a user should be assumed that he meant it to be shared.

 

[jakeGT]

I feel like we do fairly well around here, at least for people selling builds regularly. You don't hear much about host ownership in fully built units.

But when it comes down to it, if you don't know or are unsure if somebody would get mad, simply ask them. If they don't want you to, keep it as a person build.

 

[n2stuff]

My feelings on this, clone/copy = bad. Now if you take any existing host and make it better or improve on it = good.

 

[DTR]

Searching for hosts is a time consuming and expensive process and a bit of an art form. It is easy to end up with a lot of useless hosts that don't work out for one reason or another.

Sure can. I have boxes of them.

That was freakin Sparkles and he pumped out 20 mag lights like jays. I feel if somebody did a Maglight build and sold one there would be no problems. And sparkles sold shitty mimics of jays without even asking iirc.

I don't know, if I were to sell a saik 445 right now I would hope not to get flak just because jayrob sells the kits (not fully assembled lasers)

The Sparkles debolcle was really a sad moment for this forum. He ripped off a lot of people. His idea of wireing a host up was to twisty tie all the wires together and leave them exposed and flopping around in the host.:banghead:


The units that I introduce to the forum like the Saik are open for anyone to sell. I don't feel I get exclusive rights to sell it just because I happened across them fist.

 

[lazeerer]

I have been told to leave this subject alone but will respond anyway.

I will Keep this Short and Simple since this Post is Direct toward me for the most part and I have been having chest pains.

Its a Respect thing among Us sellers.

It has been here Long Before I have been here.

It was the first thing i was asked to do by the sellers at the time and i never questioned it because I respected them.

Up until most recent from a few New Sellers or newer people that want to sell this was Never a Problem among us sellers because we have a respect for each other stuff and it was Never Questioned. Other then what happened a wail ago to a couple sellers that turned out really bad and hope it doesn't happen again.

No one is Restricting you from doing what you want .. Signature Hosts are the ones i care about NOT Common ones i can care less for those. Also this goes for other sellers too and they feel the same way. Not all but most. If they want to Jump in they will if not whatever.


I put a Crap load of time in my Work, research, finding them etc etc. If you cant respect that its your choose. Ive never asked for much and none of the other sellers have either but respect what they do and find your own.

There is Millions of hosts Out there There is Less then 10 that I care about at this Point that i have done so far.


Iam Not saying you cannot sell what you want at the end its your choose and your going to do what you want.
However I fallowed this when i sold same as other sellers that start to sell and i still fallow it today.. It was Here before i started. There for i will respect that.

If you choose to its on you.

I have been a Respected member of this forum for a Long time. I dint get where i am today going against what has been asked to Respect from them.

I can tell those of you that say There is No Right, Well your Right However Its the Respect and Courtesy that you Show and you give to the other seller. It has nothing to do with Owning the Right. Get that out of your Head. Its one thing that us sellers ask for each other. In fact its the only thing we ask from each other. Signature Host are left alone. Why not respect it. Is it that hard to turn your head.

Iam not talking about Your everyday hosts here iam talking Signature Hosts that We are Know for from seller to seller.

Both me and another seller have been shopping at the same places for nearly 1 year now and we have never put up the same builds. It should show you that it can be done pretty easy.

You guys dont even want to know how many hosts i have here that someone beat me to it. I Just move on to the next one.


I will continue to respect other sellers stuff as I always have and those that respect me now Its Greatly Appreciated.:thanks:

tsteele93 You can do what you feel is the best thing to do after reading my PM how us sellers Respect each other. THat is the only thing i can say.

:beer: