Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

[RedCowboy]

Animals you can get away with defending against from a further distance, scaring them away is also ok, but people lie and if a man, even a visually stunned man who has ahold of you stabs you in the gut a couple of times, you could easily end up pooping in a plastic bag you wear on your belt for the rest of your life, a laser is simply not the right tool, not our AV toys, plus it looks just awful if you blind someone in court, someone who will lie, but as the old saying goes, dead men tell no tales. You can also pepper spray and run away, perfectly acceptable.

 

[Radim]

You are right RedCowboy. Weapons causing pernament blindess are even forbidden AFAIK.

Still for that purpose designed dazzler should be eye safe and might find its use for distracting pirates for example. After hit they are supposed to be unable to aim with fireweapons people on board. The crew might get some more time to prepare for their actions and if needed do what is necessary. Good dazzlers have electronic adjustments of beam, to ensure in distance of target there is MPE not exceeded. There should be some beam crossing detection system to identify this distance. And with strobe effect it is even more effective. The attacker will be flashblinded for some time, but likely without pernament eye damage.

However for personal self defence against people at close range it is not really the best option. Maybe even one of the worst IMO - unless you have Jet Lasers PL-E Pro, you can beat the attacker with this massive host. :crackup: Just do not forget to clean the blood, before you open the aperture for lasering afterwards - it is good to keep the optics clean. Anyway for close range there exist much better solutions. It always depends on particular use as was discussed above in this thread.

 

[CurtisOliver]

Blinding weapons are forbidden, including in the military. I highly recommend that you don't use lasers in self defence. It is something I have pondered about when burglaries started becoming highly prominent in my area.
But it came down to two main points for me to scrap the idea.
1) In my country at least, the criminal can have more rights that you. I've heard ridiculous cases of burglars suing homeowners for injuries sustained why burgling the house. So if you illegally blind your attacker/intruder, you can imagine what can happen there.
2) How effective is a laser against an attacker anyway. Ironically, you have a higher chance of accidentally blinding someone with a laser than purposefully. Sod's law comes to mind. And will it actually do anything to stop the attacker anyway. If you miss then it is just a beam of light aimed at them.

Take my advice and just don't.

 

[Alaskan]

RCB, I've heard pepper spray is a problem in some states, can't use it, but oven cleaner is just fine. Strange world!

 

[CurtisOliver]

Oven cleaner. :thinking:
I know it's illegal to own pepper spray in the uk. Although hairspray/deodorant absolutely fine.

 

[diachi]

Oven cleaner. :thinking:
I know it's illegal to own pepper spray in the uk. Although hairspray/deodorant absolutely fine.

Could always build a makeshift flamethrower.

Guy I knew kept a cutlass beside his bed, but then again, that was Glasgow.

 

[CurtisOliver]

A homemade flamethrower sounds good, and why doesn't that surprise me about the cutlass.

 

[hakzaw1]

OK

This thread will always be important---

I wish there were a way to verify legality of all these self-protection devices.

I am looking at one now (3 'functions')-- The seller so far has not allowed sales to USA.

I am not liking the absence of a dongle/pin that makes using this on its owner much harder... a real possibility.
AND I would never be OK selling one unless the new owner is willing to be educated and well-practiced with this device.
It can be gotten with 3 choices of 532--400/600 & 800 mW (focusable IIRC)
it has (for 1st option IMO) an uber bright LED w/ strobe function..

second choice I would say has to be the green Dazzler....

and last option, only can be used 'up close' is a stun gun.

Having it 'at the ready' would be important--so a holster may be needed....OR

Safety experts advise ALWAYS having your protection IN YOUR HAND when at risk

.. and it is NOT cheap-- but just how does one put a price tag of possibly saving someones life??

I will take my chances with a judge/jury--- 'better to be judged by 12 than carried by six'

hak

btw tonnes of great replies here ... ty to all.


hak

 

[BowtieGuy]

Here ya go Len, hopefully this will work!

Here's the -LINK- to Jetlasers Yamataka products.

 

[steve001]

OK

This thread will always be important---

I wish there were a way to verify legality of all these self-protection devices.








hak

You can Google which in this specific case is not an illegal use in self defense either federally or by any state law. A high lumen flashlight could be used for self defense and there's no prohibited law for that and that's what dazzlers are essentially because of their wide beam- flashlights.
Take some time and keywords search the web for federal, state and local municipality laws.

 

[Benm]

Blinding weapons are forbidden, including in the military.

Let's clear that up a little bit.

Weapons aimed to maim rather than kill enemy soldiers are prohibited in the rules of war set under the conventions. This includes things like landmines, blinding weapons, some war gasses and such.

These rules apply to -warfare- though, not in any way to personal defense.

The main reason for these rules of engagement is to prevent very nasty tactical approaches: maiming opposing soldiers is far more effective than killng them if you wan to slow down an enemy force. Since caring for their wounded takes up so many resources it simply is a very effective though inhumane approach.

This is fair enough when dealing with an enemy army, but does not apply to a single person trying to invade your home or anything like that. If you were to defend your house from a burglar, should you aim to kill or just to maim (like shooting them in a leg)?

I guess in the US that depends on the state, but for the rest of the world shooting to disable rather than kill would be more acceptable and have fewer legal repercussions.

 

[Radim]

Nice, comment, Ben.
To be honest, if I'm in immediate danger of loosing my life or anyone of my family, friends, relative etc. and the laser in my hand is only possible way how to revert it, I would use it by instinct. I would not care about attacker's eye damage much. Firstly if warning flash would not deter him, I think he would be surprised at least to give me some time to escape. If that is not the case and he tries further, I would blind him and do what's needed. If that will be damaging the attacker's eyes or not, that would be an answered question already as the attacker did not care about them because of continuing attack. The same I would treat any weapon. Than I would seek for an excelent lawyer.
I only hope I will not need to use laser in this way.

I noticed that from laserpainting I got quite an accurate aiming skill before I fire the laser. Once in operation you might quickly reaim it to a desired fine point, if you miss the target. With very high powers and below one third of NOHD, the pernament eye damage is very likely to happen in fraction of blink reflex time and for sure the attacker will be flashblinded (assuming using green or blue of high powers).

Still I do not see laser (if not a dazzler) as a very effective self defence tool, there are better options on the market. You might even take some self defence training and carry the skill all the times.

 

[CurtisOliver]

You have a point Benm. But it doesn't matter much to me in the UK anyway. We can't do hardly anything to defend ourselves. It is all a bit pathetic.

 

[hakzaw1]

.....

ty jeff--

JL knows about my concerns with some way to keep this device from being used by others..on the woner--a real possibility..


please do add your feelings.. we may turn this thread into doing even more good than it was a page back

I see these choice (or combos of 2 or more)

A wrist strap with tailcap dongle pin- w or w/o a way to 'lock' it -- requiring a lot of pull to seperate..

a code would be too confusing to many of people who REALLY need on of these the most--the elderly-handicapped or otherwise in GREAT need of one.

JL had a code offered on many models..
(the general forum did not like and requested a diff way on the JL PL-Ds IMHO their best in that form factor-had threads for BE)


another idea--the lock-out is not effecting 'normal' LED light--ie-no strobe or uber bright..for now.

to be the ultimate.
GPS equipped w/ auto 911 dialing/calling and a siren...
price of these IIRC was ~1$ per mW of green--

 

[hakzaw1]

.....

ty jeff--

JL knows about my concerns with some way to keep this device from being used by others..on the woner--a real possibility..


please do add your feelings.. we may turn this thread into doing even more good than it was a page back

I see these choice (or combos of 2 or more)

A wrist strap with tailcap dongle pin- w or w/o a way to 'lock' it -- requiring a lot of pull to seperate..

a code would be too confusing to many of people who REALLY need on of these the most--the elderly-handicapped or otherwise in GREAT need of one.

JL had a code offered on many models..
(the general forum did not like and requested a diff way on the JL PL-Ds IMHO their best in that form factor-had threads for BE)


another idea--the lock-out is not effecting 'normal' LED light--ie-no strobe or uber bright..for now.

to be the ultimate.
GPS equipped w/ auto 911 dialing/calling and a siren...
price of these IIRC was ~1$ per mW of green--

 

[Benm]

Legislation is very tricky and very variable between countries.

In the netherlands, and probably in many other european countries, you can use violence against a burglar if it is an 'appropriate response'. If the burglar where unarmed to your knowledge, you could not, for example, legally split their skull in half using a fire axe. If they had a gun or a knive within striking range, you could.

There is also something called a 'weapon of opportunity', i.e. some item that could be used as a weapon in the heat of the moment, but was not intentionally but in position as such. Examples would be things like a baseball bat that happens to be in your hallway, a golf club, or a flashlight.

I keep a 6D maglite close to my bed in case the power fails and i need some light to get around the house at night. If someone invaded my home i might grab that flashlight with both hands and hit them in the head as hard as i can.

So why the 6D maglite? Those alkalne batteries have a very long shelf life and it's not that expensive a torch, yet bright enough for orientation. The fact that it would easily bash someones skull in when even throwing it their had has little to do with the choice of flashlight, does it?