Pyrotechnic powders

[daawood123]

dude, iv been making smoke bombs for 2years now. it is sticky, yes. and it isnt that dangerous if you do it outside on a electric skillet. the worse that can happen is that it will start burning, which is what it will do when you light it with a fuse, so you can just walk away, let it finish burning, then come back and wash it out, its not a bomb or anything.

BUT.... if anything goes wrong and you end up in a+e, i aint responsible, it might not be hardcore dangerous, but it still is pyro, and kno3 is bad bad stuff.

note, it is sticky in the end but it is in no way slimy, it completely rock solid, you have like 20 seconds when you take it off the heat before it starts going solid, this is the time when you should be pouring it onto foil etc, trust me, it takes a hammer to separate it once its solid.

 

[daawood123]

also to add, when you guys are doing all this experiments in test tubes, yes there will be a lot of fire cause its inside a test tube, it sort of gets compacted in the small place, however, if you do it outside in broad daylight on a piece of foil, you will be lucky to get a few flashes of flame

 

[JLSE]

dude, iv been making smoke bombs for 2years now. it is sticky, yes. and it isnt that dangerous if you do it outside on a electric skillet. the worse that can happen is that it will start burning, which is what it will do when you light it with a fuse, so you can just walk away, let it finish burning, then come back and wash it out, its not a bomb or anything.

BUT.... if anything goes wrong and you end up in a+e, i aint responsible, it might not be hardcore dangerous, but it still is pyro, and kno3 is bad bad stuff.

note, it is sticky in the end but it is in no way slimy, it completely rock solid, you have like 20 seconds when you take it off the heat before it starts going solid, this is the time when you should be pouring it onto foil etc, trust me, it takes a hammer to separate it once its solid.

Ive played with KNO3 off and on for about 20+ years.. There is no need to heat it
unless you are making rocket candy motors, where you dont want air gaps in the fuel
which is confined in a motor.. This method eliminates the need to 'pound' the powders
into your motor and allows to simply pour it.

You could just as easily mix the powder, wrap it in a piece of paper and light the corner.
The additional step of heating is completely unnecessary. It also adds risk which there
is no need for.

Why would you take the chance in the first place?

Im assuming you have never had molten balls of oxidizer on your skin. It will reduce
your flesh on contact, the same way it does the sugar. This also applies to clothing.

If there is a safer way to do something, I cannot for the life of me understand why
anyone would advocate otherwise..

Though at least you threw in a disclaimer for amateurs who try this :undecided:

 

[daawood123]

hmm, i personally like ramming my fuel into my rocket motors. the reason i heat mine is i get a better sense of acheivement, more than i would by just mixing two powders together, also it is easier to carry, if you drop it then you can just pick it up , but if it is a powder, then a lot of mess is caused.

melting the sugar into it just makes it a better smoke bomb really, it mixes the two together really well etc.

i even make them on my kitchen stove, stupid i know but still havnt had a accident ever. theres also a variant to the method which im sure you've heard of, adding melted paraffin to the two powders. this makes a slow burning smoke bomb.

and heating kno3 to make rcandy fuel is just too dangerous, which is why i just ram them using some homemade rammers which i made from dowels, but i wont describe the exact method of making the rammers incase some amateurs decide to try it out and end up killing themselves.

in conclusion, i totally agree with you, kno3 is dangerous, just like all pyrotechnic chemicals

 

[SRESAL]

Just stay away from Potassium Chlorate all together... no reason to use it at all (for the most part).

Potassium Perchlorate (KClO4) works just as well in almost every situation, and is 100 times safer to use.

 

[jeffreythe00]

Ive got about 10 grams of p,chlorate and alu powder sitting in an Altoids tin in my drawer. Its probably not the safest thing i keep around the house. I personlly can vouch that this stuff is VIOLENT. I mixed some with some pocket lint and it burns about as violent as black powder! :O

 

[JLSE]

Just stay away from Potassium Chlorate all together... no reason to use it at all (for the most part).

Potassium Perchlorate (KClO4) works just as well in almost every situation, and is 100 times safer to use.

Sound advice, though I still use it due to the lack of availability locally. Importing
it can also get you in trouble..

I think also that the quality of the kclo3 plays a big role, and not adding a sensitizer like
sulphur to the mix.

Blackcats and even some German air crackers I have, still use kclo3 and sulphur.
Would be scary to work in any of the assembly plants.

Another thing regarding KNO3, most people who make this sort of stuff purchase
stump remover and break down the prills.. My only concern there would be the
purity of the KNO3 and heating it mixed with a reducing agent.

 

[SRESAL]

Sound advice, though I still use it due to the lack of availability locally. Importing
it can also get you in trouble..

I think also that the quality of the kclo3 plays a big role, and not adding a sensitizer like
sulphur to the mix.

Blackcats and even some German air crackers I have, still use kclo3 and sulphur.
Would be scary to work in any of the assembly plants.

Another thing regarding KNO3, most people who make this sort of stuff purchase
stump remover and break down the prills.. My only concern there would be the
purity of the KNO3 and heating it mixed with a reducing agent.

They no longer use KClO3 in any consumer fireworks (1.4g)... none.


Also, you weren't the one I was worried about... you sound like you have a good grasp on the dangers involved. It was the OP that concerned me... and that other guy who sounds like one of those YouTube kids that makes bombs out of sparklers... :undecided:

Anyway... fun stuff... but potentially dangerous as well.


To the OP...

If you do plan to go down this road, please only do so where you don't put your friends or family in danger.

Here's a guy who didn't think about the danger he placed his family in...

Woman Thought Husband Was Killed In Explosion - Omaha News Story - KETV Omaha

He eventually died from his injuries.

 

[SRESAL]

Ive got about 10 grams of p,chlorate and alu powder sitting in an Altoids tin in my drawer. Its probably not the safest thing i keep around the house. I personlly can vouch that this stuff is VIOLENT. I mixed some with some pocket lint and it burns about as violent as black powder! :O

Sorry for the double post... but I just read this one.


I'm not sure the percentage that your "stuff" is mixed at, but you need to get rid of that...

You do realize that storing flash in extremely dangerous, and against the law... right? Keeping it in a metal tin is just plain stupid. All it takes is a spark from static electricity.


Also... you say that "it burns about as violent as black powder" just shows how little you really know about what you are playing with. I'm not trying to be insulting, but informing you that "flash" will burn/deflagrate (nearly detonate) much, much quicker than even the fastest BP you will ever find. The fact that you say it is slower than BP, tells me that you probably don't have flash mixed correctly, or the Al isn't fine enough... maybe?


Anyway... I'd find a use for that stuff tomorrow... or get rid of it all together. Flash won't burn where you can see anything... it just goes "poof"...



I'm done being the safety nazi... but just don't ever say you had no idea. Because now you do...


Edit: Also... 10 grams will easily remove your hand... and just image what that metal can will do to whatever it hits.

 

[JLSE]

They no longer use KClO3 in any consumer fireworks (1.4g)... none.

From what I know, KCLO4 does not increase sensitivity with the addition of sulfur..
Im guessing that the wroks that I have contain KCLO3 due to the certain presence of sulfur.

I suppose I could test for KCLO4.. would have to get the appropriate kit..

Bare in mind the blackcats I have are made in China, and limited to a 50mg
charge.. I could be entirely wrong, but considering how China produces things
as cheaply as possible, and O3 is much cheaper..

I have also noticed quite a few chem wholesalers out of China offering up
KCLO3 and not KCLO4..

I have also heard that China visco uses a slow burning KCLO3 mix..

This is why I mentioned to the OP to be weary of opening fireworks and gutting
for powders. Im sure stuff made in the USA would not contain KCLO3, but if its
overseas imports, be very weary..

 

[jeffreythe00]

I use a 50/50 mix. I know what the chemicals are capable of ive done my research. I realise how unstable chlorates and nitrates are and how dangerous they can be. My mixture does not even burn. It goes poof just as you describe. Im not suggesting anyone else store any of these mixtures. I only stated that i have a very large mixture stored. Ive mixed it over a year ago without issue. Im in no way saying its legal and or safe. I thank you for being concerned but i feel there is no need. Accidents happen i understand.

I keep all of my dangerous chemicals seperate from other reactive chemicals in AIRTIGHT containers because i realise the risks. I use 5g of my mix to ignite a homemade cannon i have bored out of 3" of steel stock with a 3/8" hole.

Honestly im not even sure why i posted that. However i do understand the risks and nobody elseincluding myself is at risk.

EDIT, as for the black powder part. I mentioned i mixed kclo3 with pocket lint and ignighted that to observe the reaction and what i observed was the reaction was as violent as a bp ignition.

 

[bloompyle]

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but AGAIN. All I'm looking for is just flash paper and powder and a couple cool effects. I don't know why everyone is so worried about me when I've specifically said I will NOT be mixing things. If something's dangerous like the couple compounds that've been mentioned, then I'm obviously not going to buy them like some idiot. That's just pure common sense people.

 

[jeffreythe00]

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but AGAIN. All I'm looking for is just flash paper and powder and a couple cool effects. I don't know why everyone is so worried about me when I've specifically said I will NOT be mixing things. If something's dangerous like the couple compounds that've been mentioned, then I'm obviously not going to buy them like some idiot. That's just pure common sense people.

From what ive read i dont think anyone is calling you an idiot. They are just expressing their concern as flash powder can be unpredictible. Even if you dont mix up a batch of flash powder. Someone else did. As ive already been told for what ive said about storing flash powders. Its not a good idea. Thats as far as im taking that one. Im not in anyway an expert in chemistry or pyrotechnics. However i can offer my advice along with others.

Moral of the story/TL/DR.

BE SAFE!

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[bloompyle]

From what ive read i dont think anyone is calling you an idiot. They are just expressing their concern as flash powder can be unpredictible. Even if you dont mix up a batch of flash powder. Someone else did. As ive already been told for what ive said about storing flash powders. Its not a good idea. Thats as far as im taking that one. Im not in anyway an expert in chemistry or pyrotechnics. However i can offer my advice along with others.

Moral of the story/TL/DR.

BE SAFE!

Thanks,
Jeff

Will do, I think I'm just going to steer away from powders completely for now as I learn and research. I can get flash PAPER from lazerer like someone else said, and I can get falling leaf and flying fish fuses for a few bucks for a 10ft length, and those two fuses have awesome effects, and I can get different colors too.

 

[JLSE]

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but AGAIN. All I'm looking for is just flash paper and powder and a couple cool effects. I don't know why everyone is so worried about me when I've specifically said I will NOT be mixing things. If something's dangerous like the couple compounds that've been mentioned, then I'm obviously not going to buy them like some idiot. That's just pure common sense people.

I think the point to the posts in this thread are more of how involved things are.. Thats
all. We are discussing it openly, and trading off info in the process. As long as its readers
can walk away knowing the possibilities, why, and make an educated decision about
future endeavors, then this thread has served a useful purpose.

It can only serve to educate those thinking of trying something new, or even
changing they way they already do it.

Pyro and lasers go hand in hand, so its a good thread for the forum IMO, which
isnt full of dangerous non sense. Thats something we can all benefit from :beer:

 

[bloompyle]

I was referring to the person worried about "the OP" and another posting thinking that we were the type to make bombs with sparklers.